ElectricToothSyndrome - The Man You Know (1427 hits)
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Submitted by Anthony Locascio (View user info) at 2006-04-09 23:54:46 EDT
You may not have met the man behind the screen name ElectricToothSyndrome, known colloquially as ETS on Uber. You may not have been to an ubercon, you may not have spoken to him, you may not even have read any of his posts, but you know him. You don't need to have met him, because he's been around before. Not a guy you went to school with, not a guy you rode the bus to work with, but throughout history.
When the Civil War was underway, he was there. He was shouting that it was a rich man's war, an unconstitutional war. He was screaming that Lincoln was trampling the Constitution, that the North had no right to stop the South's secession. He decried the President as a backwoods bumpkin, an idiot, a hick who's lack of education was leading the country into war. The fact that millions of people held in bondage were freed due to Licoln's actions meant nothing. People had died, and that was all that mattered.
He three generations later, he came around again. This time, he was decrying the warmongering United States as antagonizing the German War machine. He applauded heartily as Neville Chamberlain returned to English soil, saying he had secured peace in our time. He pointed fingers and accused the west of saber-rattling as kristallnacht was well underway. He waited confidently for the League of Nations to act as Hitler's blitzkried made it's way towards Poland. The ashes of London were still burning brightly from the V2 rockets when he was protesting the firebombing of Dresden. As the remains of ten thousand American POWs murdered by the Japanese on the Bataan death march were coming home, he was there, burning American flags and denouncing the US for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
He came around again only a few years later. This time he was an apologist for the Soviets. Now, he carried a peace sign and the white dove, decrying the capitalist warmongers of the US for their antagonism. While he went to dinners with heads of state, 20 million Russians were dying of starvation. When the Cuban Missile Crisis arrived, he pointed his fingers again at his homeland, demanding total disarmament as an appeasement and excusing the actions of the Russian bear as a natural response to American aggression. While he protested, men manned .30 caliber Browning machine guns on the walls of a divided Germany. ETS had beaded curtains. Germany had an iron one.
He was back for Vietnam, more skilled, more savvy than ever. If anyone had thought he had been sleeping his days away, they were wrong. He was training, sharpening his skills to skewer his country, the cause of the world's ills. This time it was the defense of a small Southeastern nation. In the proxy war between America and the USSR, it was obvious to him that America was the enemy. Who wouldn't want to partake of the glorious prosperity of North Vietnam, even at the point of a gun? By the time ETS was done, nearly 60,000 US soldiers had perished in vain. He inflicted the most grievous blow on his country yet, leaving it defeated. That war was not fought on the battlefield. It was fought on the streets of the US capitol. The people of the South were ungrateful, so ungrateful that they clutched in vain at the skids of US helicopters as they left. The paradise that he was hoping for was somehow sabotaged. The area that he successfully liberated from US aggression became known as the killing fields. The fact that you could have built a home from the skulls of the dead meant nothing to him. The US had been unjust, and it had been defeated. He grinned in self satisfaction.
And so, here we are again. It seems eerie to me, in how simiilar the situations are to the first time he appeared in this country. He's still shouting that it was a rich man's war, a war for oil, an unconstitutional war. He's still screaming that the president is trampling the Constitution, that the West has no right to stop the East. He decries the President as a backwoods bumpkin, an idiot, a hick who's lack of education is leading the country into war. The fact that millions of people held in bondage were freed due to the President's actions means nothing to him. People had died, and that was all that mattered. That they were dying (at double the rate they are today) already means nothing. That the killing may be slowed, or halted by our action means nothing. ETS will not tolerate a spot of blood on his white gloves, unless that blood is the blood of his own countrymen.
So, if you havent' met the man known as ElectricToothSyndrome, you still can get to know him. You can find him in the history books of the world, always on the wrong side of history, and always convinced of the worst in those who share his citizenship. If ever you wonder, ETS, why no one thanks you for your "selflessness", as you call it, it is because their voices have been silenced forever by your refusal to stand for what is right, lest you or others bleed for it.
User Reviews
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-03 20:37:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have come back to this post and decided that this is without a doubt one of the top ten things I've ever written and it rules so hard.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-05-02 21:52:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:45:52 (#)
Ranking: 2
Vietnam lasted a long time, and was a long time ago. I've talked to
other vets who had different experiences there and afterwards at home.
The words of one or two must be considered anecdotal, and taken with
a grain of salt. Three people can see the same thing and give widely
varying reports of what they saw.
----
Well said.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-05-02 21:52:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:19:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
And you believe all the history that you read is completely true? You believe that the government tells everyone exactly what's going on? You believe that the war taking place right now is actually a good thing?
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To address the rest of your comment:
No, in all of the history that I've read ( a moderate amount, as I am no historian although I do remember what I read), I'm absolutely certain that some of it is false, or at the least that some of it is played down because it would reflect badly on the US. I understand this, although people seem convinced that I don't. I'm wholly aware that the United States is not populated by men in silver armor on white horses, charging off to defend the code of chivalry. Every country has bad men, including mine. I do, however, expect that the actions of this country be taken in a properly broad historical context SINCE THAT IS THE STANDARD THAT SEEMS TO BE APPLIED TO OTHER COUNTRIES. For example, the US is being referred to as "racist" by the Mexican government because we want to police our borders. Mexico, however, has a history of racism and xenophobia that continues to the present day (ask someone from Guatemala trying to get into Mexico illegally).
If we are to be absolutists, then let us be absolute absolutists. If we are to be relativists, let us be absolute relativists. But whatever, let us not be hypocrites.
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-05-02 21:00:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:45:52 (#)
Ranking: 2
Vietnam lasted a long time, and was a long time ago. I've talked to
other vets who had different experiences there and afterwards at home.
The words of one or two must be considered anecdotal, and taken with
a grain of salt. Three people can see the same thing and give widely
varying reports of what they saw.
___________
I was going to say something along those lines, but I wouldn't have been able to say it as well as you just did.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:45:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Vietnam lasted a long time, and was a long time ago. I've talked to
other vets who had different experiences there and afterwards at home.
The words of one or two must be considered anecdotal, and taken with
a grain of salt. Three people can see the same thing and give widely
varying reports of what they saw.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:45:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
no that wouldn't be a better question you fat piece of shit, because you're presupposing that I give a shit about the UN
another typical deflection (tu quoque fallacy, specifically) from dumbenad
we're talking about YOUR premises, that the UN is a failure and that we should be criticizing the most enormitous evils only, so why is the movement to help Darfur in the US largely a grassroots left wing effort?
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:38:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:27:13 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:19:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
And you believe all the history that you read is completely true? You believe that the government tells everyone exactly what's going on? You believe that the war taking place right now is actually a good thing?
I hope you don't, because I don't see how anyone with an ounce of logic can truly believe that he's being told the truth after being lied to so many times.
I always love it when someone like Bubba comes along with his firsthand experience and instantly proves people like you wrong. I'm sure you know better than him. It has to be true, you read it in a history book.
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My father was in Vietnam also. His experience was totally different, to hear him tell it. Since apparently you base your entire opinion on the experience of a single person, why not his rather than Bubba's?
______________
Touche. I was mostly stating that his opinion was more valid than yours, judging by the information provided. But, if you were speaking on your father's behalf, I take back what I said.
As for the rest of my comment, please give me reason to believe I was wrong about that, too.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:33:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:07:03 (#)
Ranking: -2
if we're supposed to be critical of only the most egregious evils in the world, why don't you mention that your boy bush doesn't give a shit about darfur
=========
A better question would be where's your fucking vaunted UN to help the poor people of Darfur? You know, the ones we were supposed to let handle Saddam Hussein and now are so brilliantly handling Iran?
Bush didn't say anything because there are higher priorities like turban winders with nukes. If the UN is so fucking fantastic, let them handle it.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:27:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:19:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
And you believe all the history that you read is completely true? You believe that the government tells everyone exactly what's going on? You believe that the war taking place right now is actually a good thing?
I hope you don't, because I don't see how anyone with an ounce of logic can truly believe that he's being told the truth after being lied to so many times.
I always love it when someone like Bubba comes along with his firsthand experience and instantly proves people like you wrong. I'm sure you know better than him. It has to be true, you read it in a history book.
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My father was in Vietnam also. His experience was totally different, to hear him tell it. Since apparently you base your entire opinion on the experience of a single person, why not his rather than Bubba's?
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:19:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And you believe all the history that you read is completely true? You believe that the government tells everyone exactly what's going on? You believe that the war taking place right now is actually a good thing?
I hope you don't, because I don't see how anyone with an ounce of logic can truly believe that he's being told the truth after being lied to so many times.
I always love it when someone like Bubba comes along with his firsthand experience and instantly proves people like you wrong. I'm sure you know better than him. It has to be true, you read it in a history book.
Submitted by RonArtestPunch (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:11:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
wow.
This was spectacular.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-05-02 20:07:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
if we're supposed to be critical of only the most egregious evils in the world, why don't you mention that your boy bush doesn't give a shit about darfur
oh because you're a partisan hack, nevermind
Submitted by DudeThatsBOSH (user info) at 2006-05-02 19:47:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 because your Uber Madness posts are my favorites on this entire site
Submitted by JumpingJax (user info) at 2006-05-02 19:37:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You and ETS are both lumped into a broad category that I like to call the Hopelessly Dumb.
Submitted by thecaes (user info) at 2006-04-11 07:13:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 20:33:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
(SEE: Every 18 year old kid fresh out of high school now standing on a battlefield.)
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At some point in time, a person has to be considered an adult. In this country, we've decided that age is 18. Every man and woman in uniform is in that uniform by his or her own personal choice. To condescend to them that they are too stupid to make those decisions is arrogance and close-mindedness far beyond anything I've ever put forth.
*****************************
Call me close-minded then. You cannot convince me that an 18 year old truly knows what he's doing when he/she signs up for the army. Maybe American children are a lot more mature than I give them credit for, but I doubt it. Especially when you consider the way the American recruitment machine aims themselves at the youth and those people who don't have great options or fully formed opinions yet. I haven't met that many people who are truly "set" as a person when they're 18.
Also, isn't it interesting that your government decides that an 18 year old is mature and responsible enough to become a government sanctioned killer, but they're not considered mature enough to drink alcohol until three years later.
That does not compute, Anthony.
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2006-04-11 06:28:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Although I don't agree with all the views, the writing and concept are perfect.
ETS, history's finger pointer.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-04-11 04:33:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-04-10 21:12:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 21:11:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-04-10 20:59:42 (#)
Ranking: -2
You lambaste ETS for taking a stand opposite to that of your own, which
makes you nothing more than a third-rate politician, and a man who believes
what he wishes with no logic or discernment...
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No no no no, Bubba, NOT because he takes a stance opposite mine, because he is a hypocrite quite succinctly.
Submitted by pragmatic (user info) at 2006-04-10 21:08:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I thought this was well written
But I'm sooooo over the ETS hate.
However this can be our new hate person. Moron didn't even read the post I don't think. Another person who doesn't post and seems unable to string together enough concious thought to create an intelligent opinion.
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Submitted by laika (user info) at 2006-04-10 03:41:08 (#)
Ranking: -2
you could have shortened your post to 2 lines.
The US is never wrong and can kill anyone it wants at any time.
I hate anyone who opposes my twisted view of patriotism and morals.
and oh yeah, go fuck yourself.
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Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-04-10 21:02:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
no.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-04-10 20:59:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No. No. No. The American populace did NOT believe we could win in Vietnam.
I was there, and what I came home to was hatred.
You lambaste ETS for taking a stand opposite to that of your own, which
makes you nothing more than a third-rate politician, and a man who believes
what he wishes with no logic or discernment...
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 20:37:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DarthAwesome (user info) at 2006-04-10 17:23:19 (#)
Ranking: -2
I don't recall the masses of mad war protesters during world war 2 that you spoke of.
And I like how you ignored my comment on how Americans, not just its protesters, were fed up with the Vietnam war.
======
Darth, how much time and dime do you think I am going to spend on a lightweight such as yourself? But to answer your argument in brief, Americans believed quite firmly that the US could win in Vietnam...until individuals such as ETS (also infesting the halls of "objective" journalism then as now) convinced them otherwise. Tet was a fine example of that, a humiliating defeat for the NVA that was spun into a symbol of an enemy that couldn't be defeated.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 20:33:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-04-10 11:44:52 (#)
--------------------
Here's the thing, Anthony... The people who, as you say, "throw acid in female's faces" or "strap bombs to children" are getting plenty of heat without my voice being added to that din. It should be taken as a GIVEN, by the expression of my basic position on human morality, that I would not condone such things. That should go without saying.
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It DOES NOT go without saying. You stand shoulder to shoulder with those men, whether you like it or not. Like it or not, you are huddled in a nice little penochle klatsch with Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmedinajad, and a dozen other nasty men whose collective body counts dwarf not just George Bush, but the whole of United States history.
I'd rather direct my attention toward the real evil of the world - rich men who control everything from the media to the government...
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BAM, therein lies my point. You look at your own countrymen and see enemies. You think a man with money is worse than a man who murders a store owner for selling Valentine's cards or shaving beards. You are twisted by your own self-loathing into thinking a man with too many grecian statues and too many Maseratis is worse than the decapitating Islamofascists.
(SEE: Every 18 year old kid fresh out of high school now standing on a battlefield.)
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At some point in time, a person has to be considered an adult. In this country, we've decided that age is 18. Every man and woman in uniform is in that uniform by his or her own personal choice. To condescend to them that they are too stupid to make those decisions is arrogance and close-mindedness far beyond anything I've ever put forth. If you needed to make the argument that there are people over 18 who are too childish and immature to make mature decisions, you could always use yourself as evidence, but I'm not going to make your arguments for you.
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2006-04-10 19:45:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
you forgot to blame him for the Boston Masacre and the deaths at Kent State
+1 for effort and clarity of thought
Submitted by DarthAwesome (user info) at 2006-04-10 17:23:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I don't recall the masses of mad war protesters during world war 2 that you spoke of.
And I like how you ignored my comment on how Americans, not just its protesters, were fed up with the Vietnam war.
Maybe if there was forced military service , or the draft hit the top 10% wealthiest families we wouldn't have a country that took war so lightly.
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-04-10 17:20:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Don't you know? ETS is GOD!!!!
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2006-04-10 16:25:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
No Comment
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-04-10 16:11:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I stuck around St. Petersberg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the Czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the Blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-04-10 14:11:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-04-10 11:44:52 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:30:02 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:05:36 (#)
Ranking: 1
I find it troubling that in this entire post you never seem to entertain the slightest doubt about the motives & actions of your country, the United States. Not everyone shares your unquestioning certainty, and it doesn't help to call those people "disloyal" or "unpatriotic". Plus I find historical parallels between modern-day Iraq and Vietnam, Nazi Germany, the antebellum South totally unconvincing, except in the limited sense that they were all wars involving the United States.
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You are incorrect, Zak. I am only pointing out that everyone seems perfectly willing to criticise the United States, even in light of the most egregious circumstances. Perhaps, if fellows like ETS were to as readily condemn men who throw acid in the faces of Arab women who do not cover their head and strap bombs to their children as he does President Bush, I would feel differently.
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Here's the thing, Anthony... The people who, as you say, "throw acid in female's faces" or "strap bombs to children" are getting plenty of heat without my voice being added to that din. It should be taken as a GIVEN, by the expression of my basic position on human morality, that I would not condone such things. That should go without saying.
I'd rather direct my attention toward the real evil of the world - rich men who control everything from the media to the government, have subversive control over everything we do as a society, and who don't give a shit who they have to kill to get what they want.
Dude, we've got people in THIS country who do much worse to their wives than just throw acid in their face, and we've got people in this country who shove children into the line of fire as well. (SEE: Every 18 year old kid fresh out of high school now standing on a battlefield.)
The difference between you and me is, you BUY the cultural propaganda against the Muslim enemy, I don't. In this way, you're already brainwashed.
===
And he claims that he's not arrogant. Wow!
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2006-04-10 13:45:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OMG!!1! IRAN is developing WMDs?!?! Quick Domenad theres not a moment to lose, jump on your mighty steed and save us, dazzle those Iranians with your impeccable logic!
Submitted by Flack (user info) at 2006-04-10 12:23:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah, I don't like that faggot either.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-04-10 12:05:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
You are wrong.
ETS would not really be against those things. ETS doesn't have a conscience. ETS is simply using these causes to inflate his ever expanding ego.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-04-10 11:44:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:30:02 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:05:36 (#)
Ranking: 1
I find it troubling that in this entire post you never seem to entertain the slightest doubt about the motives & actions of your country, the United States. Not everyone shares your unquestioning certainty, and it doesn't help to call those people "disloyal" or "unpatriotic". Plus I find historical parallels between modern-day Iraq and Vietnam, Nazi Germany, the antebellum South totally unconvincing, except in the limited sense that they were all wars involving the United States.
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You are incorrect, Zak. I am only pointing out that everyone seems perfectly willing to criticise the United States, even in light of the most egregious circumstances. Perhaps, if fellows like ETS were to as readily condemn men who throw acid in the faces of Arab women who do not cover their head and strap bombs to their children as he does President Bush, I would feel differently.
--------------------
Here's the thing, Anthony... The people who, as you say, "throw acid in female's faces" or "strap bombs to children" are getting plenty of heat without my voice being added to that din. It should be taken as a GIVEN, by the expression of my basic position on human morality, that I would not condone such things. That should go without saying.
I'd rather direct my attention toward the real evil of the world - rich men who control everything from the media to the government, have subversive control over everything we do as a society, and who don't give a shit who they have to kill to get what they want.
Dude, we've got people in THIS country who do much worse to their wives than just throw acid in their face, and we've got people in this country who shove children into the line of fire as well. (SEE: Every 18 year old kid fresh out of high school now standing on a battlefield.)
The difference between you and me is, you BUY the cultural propaganda against the Muslim enemy, I don't. In this way, you're already brainwashed.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-04-10 11:31:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
When the "brawl to end it all" takes place, I'm going hunting for ETS.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-04-10 11:20:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:26:09 (#)
Ranking: 0
Some things should be made clear:
1) I do not support ALL war, nor do I believe in the total purity of my country's motives for its various actions. I simply ask that the deeds of my country be taken in the proper historical context. Vietnam was undertaken to contain the spread of communism. WHY was it undertaken? Because the US and other allied forces feared Russian expansion throughout the Eurasian continent, an expansion that was claiming millions of lives. In light of the fact that, if you started counting the bodies of those Stalin had murdered only 14 years before Vietnam began in earnest, you wouldn't finish until mid-2008.
2) I do NOT HATE ETS. I have spoken with him personally and I find him intelligent and erudite, but not wise. But wisdom is something that can be acquired. Here's hoping.
----------------------
There is no context into which you're gonna put Vietnam that will justify it in my eyes, Domenad. Vietnam was a waste of an entire generation of bright, young men...for nothing.
The reason? Because, first of all, the Gulf of Tonkin was staged (just like the attack on the Maine that started the Spanish-American war, and just like, I feel, 9/11). The whole "stopping the spread of communism" call to arms was bullshit. It was nothing but an international pissing contest that was designed only to make the people within the military industiral complex RICH. RICH. RICH.
$$$$$$$ x a Trillion
Their methods were (and still are) to keep people scared or complacent by placing their protection in the hands of these people...who are essentially state-funded mobsters. Their tactics in keeping business booming (pardon the pun) are nothing less than to start wars and sell them to people like you and me, but especially to people like you, seeing as YOU'RE the one that's going to be fighting and dying for them, not me. Some governments (including our own at one point) would use cultural and racial differences to distinguish ourselves as being better than someone else, therefore worthy of dominating or killing them.
Thus they pump you full of these nationalistic steroids and make you feel like you're a superman and a hero because you're "doing your duty" and "serving your country" and "spreading freedom", when really about all your doing is contributing to the very thing about our species that is most regrettable - our constant bickering, moreover, you're often doing it for the most BASE and SHAMEFUL of reasons...MONEY, OIL, LAND, SLAVES, RESOURCES, STRATEGIC POSITIONING, whatever.
I honestly don't know know what school of thought you come from where 'wisdom' is tanamount to preemptive war, but you should fire your guru.
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2006-04-10 10:59:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Some good points, but some poor ones as well...
Vietnam was nothing but a civil war. It was a popular rebellion against Diem, the American installed dictator. Ho Chi had no real power, other than the popularity of communism and the people's wishes to make their nation communist. You interfered in a civil war. A war that we had absolutely no right to intervene into. Vietnam was completely unjustified and although you claim that Americans helped save a few South Viets, our persistence in the war led to millions of deaths.
Not our fucking war... which is why the world seems to hate us all.
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2006-04-10 10:49:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i don't give a shit what this was about, all i know is that it was a phenominal piece of writing. i'm blown away by the writing.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-04-10 10:48:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
disagree but ETS hate is all good with me.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-04-10 10:41:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-04-10 02:07:39 (#)
Ranking: -2
I find it disturbing that people can find so much criticism and disgust for a man who is acting according to his conscience, considering the consequences of his actions and speaking his mind, and yet no bile is spread on those who do not give a second thought to the people around them or the world that they live in.
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According to his conscience? According to him the US and all the wealth that the US has is built on the backs of poor third world countries. If he believed half of what he says he would be in the peace corp, he would be working to help them, not working at an easy IT job that allows him enough time to post political rants and enough money to get play around with his mucic and get high when he wants.
Submitted by Zol (user info) at 2006-04-10 10:39:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
well written
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:30:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ets has nice paragraphs... and top hat.
Submitted by simple_catalyst (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:29:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by nrduncan (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:29:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Call911 (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:28:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You can get it right about 15 times in row... but if on the 16th time your country screws it up... your all screwed.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:28:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I expect better from you bro. This is just totally inaccurate and weak.
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:27:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:17:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wonder why there isn't a more vocal group of people who oppose both interventionist US policy and Islamic medievalism.
Do you want Berlusconi to be re-elected domenad? It seems to me that by your lights all that matters is that he is a staunch US ally, while his opponent, Romano Prodi, would be a "cut-and-run liberal". Apologies for putting words in your mouth, but that seems the rhetoric of choice at the moment.
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-04-10 09:14:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
That's an interesting point Domenad, that there are few people out there who regularly write about Islamic issues like oppression of women. And typically those people are making emotional arguments to defend current engagements in the Middle East and promote further action against Syria, Iran, etc.
This generally means that these people (pundits, correspondents, etc) are speaking in terms of "look at what these people do wrong" and by implication that what they do is right. And as a result they are left exposed to charges of racism/religious hatred/etc.
Perhaps it is important to consider the question of what people dislike about foreign policy. Separate out the content of that policy, and the manner in which it is implemented. I would suggest that most people react viscerally against the way in which the US plans and executes its policy, rather than the actual content & intent of that policy. Most people (in the Western world) would say that US-style democracy was worse than secular dictatorship or Islamic theocracy, but those same people who would admit that are very much opposed to invasion, bombing, the support of one ethnic group against others (Kurds & Shi'ites vs. Sunnis) as methods of imposing that same democracy they would prefer in the abstract.
Many remain unconvinced (myself amongst them) that installing a democratic government by military force is a lasting solution. Things just appear to be getting worse in Iraq politically (PM Jaafari, who once seemed promising, asked to resign) and militarily (the unceasing stream of car-bombings, there's at least one a day, and that's only the incidents that make it into the press here, I'm sure it is far higher).
It's a theme you see repeatedly in Presidential Q & A sessions, somebody will ask President Bush "Was it wrong to invade Iraq" and he will respond along this lines of "Don't you want the Iraqi people to be free?". The questioner is concerned about the means, the practicalities, while the answer is abstract.
It's the best technique Bush has to reply to these questions though, you can't answer "no" to that, and if you say "yes", well, you are agreeing with the President! And since he can't reasonably defend the practical day-to-day operation of his war that's the best he can do. He is challenged on the manner, the feasability of his policy, and his only defence is to retreat to basic principle, which isn't really relevant.
Submitted by Pentameter (user info) at 2006-04-10 08:59:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Enough of this fucking shit already.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2006-04-10 08:23:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by Axolotl (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:59:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:30:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
ETS had beaded curtains. Germany had an iron one.
HAH!
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:30:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:05:36 (#)
Ranking: 1
I find it troubling that in this entire post you never seem to entertain the slightest doubt about the motives & actions of your country, the United States. Not everyone shares your unquestioning certainty, and it doesn't help to call those people "disloyal" or "unpatriotic". Plus I find historical parallels between modern-day Iraq and Vietnam, Nazi Germany, the antebellum South totally unconvincing, except in the limited sense that they were all wars involving the United States.
---------
You are incorrect, Zak. I am only pointing out that everyone seems perfectly willing to criticise the United States, even in light of the most egregious circumstances. Perhaps, if fellows like ETS were to as readily condemn men who throw acid in the faces of Arab women who do not cover their head and strap bombs to their children as he does President Bush, I would feel differently.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:26:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Some things should be made clear:
1) I do not support ALL war, nor do I believe in the total purity of my country's motives for its various actions. I simply ask that the deeds of my country be taken in the proper historical context. Vietnam was undertaken to contain the spread of communism. WHY was it undertaken? Because the US and other allied forces feared Russian expansion throughout the Eurasian continent, an expansion that was claiming millions of lives. In light of the fact that, if you started counting the bodies of those Stalin had murdered only 14 years before Vietnam began in earnest, you wouldn't finish until mid-2008.
2) I do NOT HATE ETS. I have spoken with him personally and I find him intelligent and erudite, but not wise. But wisdom is something that can be acquired. Here's hoping.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:15:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
THANK GOD!
ETS is a beacon of shining light in these dark and troubled times. He is my personal guardian angel.
When I think of him, I think of the 'footprints in the sand' story, except I replace Jesus with ETS.
I don't know how he'll take this though, he's not one for name dropping and hogging the spotlight, he's a humble and pious man.
<sigh>
Submitted by Brendon (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:09:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
OMG SHUTUP YOU FUCKEN LIBRULS LINCONS WAZ JUST TRYIN TO FREE DEM BLACK FOLKS!111
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:07:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
who was marshall law, Jay, Lincoln's Secretary of War?
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:05:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Brendan is right, too.
Lincoln used troops in Illinois to scare away Democratic voters, called marshall law in many states to suspend congressional elections, etc etc.
There are quite a few good books in my CW collection I'd name titles of for more info, but I'm at work...
I might do it tomorrow.
Submitted by zakalwe (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:05:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't really agree with this, but ETS gave my Scarlett Johansson post a -2.
Thus proving that I hate him.
(I find it troubling that in this entire post you never seem to entertain the slightest doubt about the motives & actions of your country, the United States. Not everyone shares your unquestioning certainty, and it doesn't help to call those people "disloyal" or "unpatriotic". Plus I find historical parallels between modern-day Iraq and Vietnam, Nazi Germany, the antebellum South totally unconvincing, except in the limited sense that they were all wars involving the United States.)
Submitted by Brendon (user info) at 2006-04-10 07:01:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Lincoln WAS trampling the constitution you patrio-tard, the united states was supposed to be a VOLUNTARY union.
Submitted by thecaes (user info) at 2006-04-10 06:53:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Uh, this is retarded. This is more retarded than that contest Method had between Electro and georgemichael. The war in Iraq does NOT equal the Civil War, or Vietnam, and it sure as hell does not equal WWII. To suggest that ETS would have been pro-Hitler is just fucking ridiculous.
Here's a news flash: YOU DON'T KNOW HIM. All you know about ETS is the shit he puts up on Uber. To assume you know a person based on a few ranting posts is not only incredibly arrogant, it's a humongous flaw of logic.
Oh, and I'd rather live in a world based on ETS' ideals than live in one run by someone who thinks that all war is necessary and great, which seems to be one of the points of your post. If you really think that, than you're a much bigger menace to humanity than ETS could ever be.
Submitted by badassmofo (user info) at 2006-04-10 06:37:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OMG!!! A POST ABOUT ETS AND HIS CRAZY WAYZ!!!!!
Submitted by Wildman (user info) at 2006-04-10 04:17:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Your last sentence sums it up quite nicely.
ETS is all sizzle and no steak.
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2006-04-10 03:53:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
The argument itself is flawed, but the sheer eloquence and force of the writing deserves some credit.
Submitted by laika (user info) at 2006-04-10 03:41:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you could have shortened your post to 2 lines.
The US is never wrong and can kill anyone it wants at any time.
I hate anyone who opposes my twisted view of patriotism and morals.
and oh yeah, go fuck yourself.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-04-10 02:39:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Ok, I've so far gotten to the second paragraph and I already see where you're going with this. I'm giving you the +2 because it is my hope that you aren't really suggesting that Lincoln's 'tyranny' in preventing the secession of the southern states was in any way equitable to Bush's 'liberation' of Iraq.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-04-10 02:08:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Holy Anal Rape, Batman!!!
It may not be totally accurate, but this was one hell of a Hate Post!
Auto +1 for Hate
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-04-10 02:07:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I find it disturbing that people can find so much criticism and disgust for a man who is acting according to his conscience, considering the consequences of his actions and speaking his mind, and yet no bile is spread on those who do not give a second thought to the people around them or the world that they live in.
Submitted by MrSparkle847 (user info) at 2006-04-10 02:07:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Let's give it a rest. I take no side on the ETS issue, because I wasn't paying attention when it became an issue. I also have nothing against you, or against ETS. What you must realize is that posts of derision and dislike of him are only making him feel like he's making a difference. If you really want him to shut up, for Christ's sake, don't lavish any sort of attention on him, because that's probably what he wants.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2006-04-10 01:59:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Well written, but I disagree. The victors of wars write history, so it is unfair to say his type is "always on the wrong side of history". We would all think very differently about these wars if they had different outcomes.
Submitted by turkishblend (user info) at 2006-04-10 01:59:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hear Hear comrade; let our armies march forth under the banner of liberation. Doubleplusgood are our preemptive conquest and all those who dissent are merely the doubleplusunbellyfeeling cowards who have plagued our glorious liberation from the start.
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2006-04-10 01:49:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This was an interesting take on ETS, though I'm not sure if I agree with most of it. The trouble is, and I've had a lot of time to think about this, you cannot fault a man for speaking his mind about what he thinks is right. Of course, you could always point out an extreme case (see: Hitler) and prove me wrong, but when you're talking about an average person whose actions are not quite as impressionable as a more famous dictator/political figurehead, you really can't denounce their views, as it always proves futile.
In the end, you and I both know that it is the blindness and ignorance that clears them of any fault. ETS is simply unable to see or accept any view that is even the slightest bit contrary to his own. This is not a conscious choice on his part, just as much as you can't blame a crazy man for being crazy. Further, you can't compare ETS to any of your listed activists because ETS really hasn't even DONE anything at all. He may think he has, and he will probably argue with me tooth and nail to prove how he has swayed the beliefs of the masses, but in the end, all he has going on in that head of his are plans upon plans that he will never employ. Should he even try, I can guarantee it will not be emplyed effectively. To put ETS in the same light as a conscious protestor is wrong.
I think iddqd said it best that ETS should merely be politely ignored. He has not stepped up to the plate as those people you've mentioned have. His courage and ambition fall much shorter than any protestor, and I feel sorry for him. Despite the fact that he is surprisingly eloquent, and intelligent enough to put forth his powerful emotions through writing, I feel bad because he's wasting his very talents by sitting behind a flickering screen, masturbating to the sound of his own mediocrity.
That is ETS in a nutshell.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-04-10 01:28:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
he doesnt even have close to that effect. ets predecessors are the crotchety, importent old men and women who send pointless diatribes off to senators and such in the vain hope that someone, somewhere will listen to them saying how dangerous and evil that damn skate punk kids are and how we need to clean up the streets.
dont give him credit.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-04-10 01:04:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Holy shit.
Based on the writing alone, this is +2 material, even if I don't 100% agree with everything.
I do agree with most, though, which is wierd, since I am a bit left of center.
(IMOO, we should not be AS involved in Iraq as we are. I would support a longer campaign fought by Iraqis themselves, with a side armed by us, kind of like Panama, etc etc.)
((Oh, and the thought of going into a ground war in Iraq scares the hell out of me, because they terrain reminds me of winter 1944. Except instead of kids whipped up in nationalistic fervor, we'll be facing millions of men who will fight to the death for their God.))
Submitted by DarthAwesome (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:55:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There is a big fucking difference between the holocaust and fucking vietnam domenad, you know that.
Perhaps that is why i only commentend on your paragraph on vietnam.
Say what you want, and quote that gook general if you like, but the fact is america didn't want to fight in vietnam. Why? because people don't want to die over some 3rd world countries form of government. If a country isn't behind the reasons of a war, then it usually won't win it.
That being said, people should really take a step back from the politics of it. Consider the 60,000 girlfriends, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers who had or have a huge fucking void that will never be filled. Think about the GIs who came back, got a lousy 200 bucks and a thank you from the VA. That probably didn't cover the bar tab to get over the shit they went through.
I really hate these fucking computer chair warriors. If you have such a raging hard on for war, go fucking enlist.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:30:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
*speechless*
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:21:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DarthAwesome (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:13:10 (#)
Ranking: -2
They didn't die in vain. If you learn anything from those 60,000 soldiers, then at least learn not to fuck around in anothers countries buisness.
--------
Okay, so you're fine if the boxcars get stuffed with Jews and the ovens are kept broiling 24/7, just so long as I don't get into someone else's business? Or that nearly 1/3 of a population is executed and buried? Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Cuntrag.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:16:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BigStar (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:06:32 (#)
Ranking: -1
"By the time ETS was done, nearly 60,000 US soldiers had perished in vain."
______________________________________________________________________________
Wait, so how are you supporting your claim that people like ETS were responsible for 60,000 dead in Vietnam?
==============
I didn't say he was responsible for 60k dead. I said they perished IN VAIN, because ETS's predecessors undercut and castrated the war effort politically, a war effort that by the North's own admission (see the writings of NVA General Giap) would have been successful.
Submitted by DarthAwesome (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:13:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
He was back for Vietnam, more skilled, more savvy than ever. If anyone had thought he had been sleeping his days away, they were wrong. He was training, sharpening his skills to skewer his country, the cause of the world's ills. This time it was the defense of a small Southeastern nation. In the proxy war between America and the USSR, it was obvious to him that America was the enemy. Who wouldn't want to partake of the glorious prosperity of North Vietnam, even at the point of a gun? By the time ETS was done, nearly 60,000 US soldiers had perished in vain. He inflicted the most grievous blow on his country yet, leaving it defeated. That war was not fought on the battlefield. It was fought on the streets of the US capitol. The people of the South were ungrateful, so ungrateful that they clutched in vain at the skids of US helicopters as they left. The paradise that he was hoping for was somehow sabotaged. The area that he successfully liberated from US aggression became known as the killing fields. The fact that you could have built a home from the skulls of the dead meant nothing to him. The US had been unjust, and it had been defeated. He grinned in self satisfaction.
They didn't die in vain. If you learn anything from those 60,000 soldiers, then at least learn not to fuck around in anothers countries buisness.
Submitted by Sphagnum (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:11:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
These two are idiots
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Submitted by EntityErased (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:10:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Eh.
Kinda mean, but I enjoyed the history.
Submitted by BigStar (user info) at 2006-04-10 00:06:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
"By the time ETS was done, nearly 60,000 US soldiers had perished in vain."
______________________________________________________________________________
Wait, so how are you supporting your claim that people like ETS were responsible for 60,000 dead in Vietnam? Seems to me the responsibility falls on the equally corrupt shoulders of the Communist's like Ho Chi Minh as well as on the Capitalist's back home like LBJ.
Geo-Politics is like a game, and Ho Chi Minh and LBJ are just funny little players. The Civil War and WW2 are not Vietnam and Iraq, so stop trying to simplify the world we live in.