The End of the Age of Oil and the 'Necessity' for a New World Order (797 hits)
Category: Business & FinancialRating: 1.12 on 64 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by God's Mercy (View user info) at 2006-06-12 01:09:41 EDT
This is an epoch in human history, and we are rapidly approaching a time when the decisions and inaction of our recent past will come to bear on us as a human race. It is so easy in our insulated society - where history only seems to occur on the other side of the globe or through the surreal pixels of television screens - to pass over the fact that the time in which we live is a time of immense and rapid changes. The old ways of doing business, the ways of the current age, cannot last forever.
There are several epochs in human history that are well documented. You open any standard textbook and they are there...
The Stone Age.
The Bronze Age.
The Iron Age.
The Industrial Revolution (aka The Age of Oil and Fossil Fuels), which includes: The Electrical Age/The Space Age/Computer Age, etc.
These last few are fundamentally linked.
All of these things we take for granted, all these things that act to keep us under control with their convenience could suddenly come to an end tomorrow with the end of the Age of Oil. When the oil runs out, that's all she wrote on this age in human history. Experts have stated that peak oil happened in 1979, and that from here on out, there will be less and less cheap, readily accessible oil on the planet.
Such a drastic shift in the fundamental way in which we live will no doubt bring about violent changes in the way human beings interact. A keen observer will see the signs of this all around them already. The United States of America along with its European allies has recognized this inevitable change far in advance and have dedicated decades of manpower and countless human lives to the cause of securing their own reserves for a potential 'end battle' with enemies such as China and Russia over the last drops of cheap oil. Every ounce of available effort will be put forth to bring about this aim of being the proverbial 'last man standing' in the giant chess match of nations.
The events of 9/11, the seemingly endless wars in oil rich parts of the globe, the neo-colonialism and nation-building of the United States, rampant, unquenchable consumerism in a global market that's expected to continue growing at all costs, and the apparent loss of all things heretofore considered 'sacred' are, to me, signs of this emerging transition.
The United States secured vast amounts of oil with its aquisition of Alaska. Much of this oil remains in the ground at the present time because it is, frankly, easier to defend in the ground than in huge tankers on the surface. However, in the interest of winning the overall 'game' as they see it, it is strategically necessary to weild their superior military power in the effort to station troops in key locations such as the middle east and West Africa.
Never mind the fact that this last 'push' for oil dominance will consist of opposing sides, all of whom are nuclear capable, but even if a clear 'winner' is decided without these nations annihilating each other in a cloud of nuclear destruction, what then? What will the dominant nation do with its remaining resources? How will it use its last chance to weild absolute power? What will replace fossil fuels when they've all been used up? What will become of the human race when all the agricultural systems we have in place that, through the singular use of oil-driven machinery and oil-based fertilization techniques, have risen crop yields to levels that can support 6-8 billion people suddenly are reduced to levels that can only support 2-3 billion? Who will be the losers?
I can assure you, it won't be folks like Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney. It won't be folks like the Bush's or the Buffett's. It won't be the nice folks at Exxon-Mobil or Chevron.
We have to recognize that a sprint-race to the last drops of oil will only create a situation where we'll wish we could turn around and come back to this moment in human history and do it all differently. We'll wish we could do it all over again, conserve our resources, stop killing one another, and start making a concerted, international effort to solve the impending energy crisis with compassionate means.
To this end, a certain amount of globalization will be absolutely necessary, but we should be ever-mindful of the 'One World Government', one that wields absolute authority over every corner of the earth. This kind of global communist system may eventually be necessary if we are to continue to support current population levels after the collapse of oil as a viable fuel source; however, I feel it should only be undertaken as a last resort, and I can only hope that wisdom guides those that will be charged with the all-important task of leading it.
The Revelation of Paul seems to indicate that in the end of times there will be a time of great chaos, war, famine, and evil upon the earth, but he also alluded to a time after this chaos when the Kingdom of God might rule upon the face of the earth and 1000 years of peace will follow. I wish I could say I share this view. I guess one can only hope that the better parts of the human spirit will prevail and we can once again find an equilibrium with our dear mother earth.
In its time upon the earth, humankind has accomplished some fantastic things. We built the great pyramids, we conquered the oceans, we conquered the land, the animals, the air, and we have harnessed the power of fire and electricity to great ends. Who knows what another 10,000 years might bring if given the chance? Who knows what wonders await us if we continue to evolve! I cannot speculate on such things without some measure of fantasy, but I know this from the pit of my stomach: 'twould be a shame to throw it all away now.
If there is a God out there in the endless unknown of this strange universe or in the black depths of the human heart, I can only pray He has mercy on us all and allows us a little more time to sort this mess out.
Peace.
User Reviews
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-14 23:36:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well, this died quick.
Only 60 something reviews?
You're slipping, Brad.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2006-06-13 17:40:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with the overall sentiment of this article, but you have some factual errors
Also I'd suggest you look up Methane-hydrate, an as of yet untapped source of energy located at the bottom of the oceans locked underneath huge pressures and at sub-zero temperatures. Many estimates suggest that there is more energy locked up in these gas-hydrates than is available from currently exploitable fossil fuels.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-13 17:16:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
ETS, get over yourself and the "armed citizenry"
You're predominantly lefty, ya fucking pinko.
You give other liberals a bad rap, because you make people think we're all flakes.
Now, get off the drugs, hit Alt+F4, and try again.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-13 07:39:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
cmon ETS, I want to see you say that there will not be any energy crisis.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-06-12 13:56:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I only read the title, and KNEW this was done by ETS - damn, I'm good.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 13:28:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2006-06-12 13:16:35 (#)
Ranking: 2
Our resident nutty ultra-liberal is back at last! *WEEPS*
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Not that you really do it, but I love when people try to pigeonhole me as a 'liberal'. I find it especially amusing since I'm all about an armed citizenry.
I really haven't given enough thought to trying to label my personal politics, but I know it's not any of the major parties. Pretty ironic that I love Thoreau and agree more with Texas REpublican Ron Paul than almost anyone in Washington, yet I'm a 'liberal'.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 13:23:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:39:09 (#)
Ranking: 0
You're a hippie. It's going to be Mad-Max/Fallout all the way. Better stock up on guns and ammo, because that's who is going to be OK.
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That's basically what I'm saying. Stock up on guns and ammo. Hell, I've been saying that for ages. Where have YOU been?
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2006-06-12 13:16:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Our resident nutty ultra-liberal is back at last! *WEEPS*
Submitted by c1ndy (user info) at 2006-06-12 13:04:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
stop feeding the monkeys
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:54:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh for Christ's sake...
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:43:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:39:09 (#)
Ranking: 0
You're a hippie. It's going to be Mad-Max/Fallout all the way. Better stock up on guns and ammo, because that's who is going to be OK.
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Tell that to the supermutants.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:39:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You're a hippie. It's going to be Mad-Max/Fallout all the way. Better stock up on guns and ammo, because that's who is going to be OK.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:31:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Drilling/digging is a lot cheaper. But do to the low amounts of uranium needed to generate energy the price could increase loads (ie if/when we run out of digging up stuuff) and not make nuclear power owners blink.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:28:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:06:24 (#)
Ranking: 2
We will rediscover coal and steampower as an energy source! Britian will be on top form again and I will trade my car in favour of riding a giant clockwork man to work!
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Well, at least you won't need that pesky coal-fired wrist watch anymore, eh?
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:55:20 (#)
Ranking: 0
I knew that was coming.
Anyway my point is, we can get uranium from sea water. Lots and lots and lots and lots...
So now whats your problem?
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I haven't heard of that process. I'll study that more and get back to you. My question would be, if it's so viable, why are there still companies drilling and digging for it if it's that ubiquitous? We'll see.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:20:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Helloooooooooooooooooooooo...........calling ETS...
Ah c'mon I need someone to entertain me for the rest of this journey.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2006-06-12 11:06:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
We will rediscover coal and steampower as an energy source! Britian will be on top form again and I will trade my car in favour of riding a giant clockwork man to work!
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:55:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I knew that was coming.
Anyway my point is, we can get uranium from sea water. Lots and lots and lots and lots...
So now whats your problem?
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:52:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*googles 'solar system'*
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:49:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:42:15 (#)
Ranking: 0
Usually when someone says 'as far as I know' in an uber argument it means they have been googling.
And Hell yes I didn't think you knew that.
I have little or no telepathic ability to realise you know a lot about fossil fuels, and you critiqued my proposals but didn't mention that the major problem was that there is no coal in space.
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Correction...there's no coal in the solar system. (As far as we know.)
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:43:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.ubersite.com/m/89020#2016954
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:42:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Usually when someone says 'as far as I know' in an uber argument it means they have been googling.
And Hell yes I didn't think you knew that.
I have little or no telepathic ability to realise you know a lot about fossil fuels, and you critiqued my proposals but didn't mention that the major problem was that there is no coal in space.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:41:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:38:01 (#)
Ranking: -2
"If there is a God out there in the endless unknown of this strange universe or in the black depths of the human heart, I can only pray He has mercy on us all and allows us a little more time to sort this mess out."
-Didn't you touch the oversoul, aren't you at one with the universe, shouldn't you know the answer to these questions?
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I'm doing my best to be politically neutral. Don't blow it.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:40:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:34:09 (#)
Ranking: -2
He tried to get you fired from volounteering?
I thought he was a miserable little prick, but I had no idea he would try and fuck with people's real life.
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I was fucking with him by telling him I was going to and he bought it, that's all. Why the fuck would I even bother with jgreening's sorry-ass existence in any measurable way?
Fuck Jason Greening.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:38:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"If there is a God out there in the endless unknown of this strange universe or in the black depths of the human heart, I can only pray He has mercy on us all and allows us a little more time to sort this mess out."
-Didn't you touch the oversoul, aren't you at one with the universe, shouldn't you know the answer to these questions?
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:37:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:29:53 (#)
Ranking: 0
HAHAHAHAHAH.
That was a joke you fool. there is no Coal in space. coal is essentially very very low grade oil, it is formed by the compression and metamorphosis of hughe amounts of plant life.
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Do you think you're telling me something I don't know? Honestly? Or it THAT the joke? I live smack in the middle of coal country, dude. My entire family are coal miners, including my mom.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:34:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:12:18 (#)
Ranking: -2
What's up ETS!
How ya doin' bro?
Good good, mhey man, I was wondering, how was your self-imposed one month exile?
You get those Che posters printed?
Get those letters drafted for your congressman?
How'd it go trying to get me fired from the Colorado Democratic Party, even though I volunteer?
(Oh, wait. I can answer that. You failed miserably, and now it's a joke at the phone bank that anytime someone complains, they're pulling an ETS. True story)
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He tried to get you fired from volounteering?
I thought he was a miserable little prick, but I had no idea he would try and fuck with people's real life.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:31:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:16:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes...but its not going to run out any time soon...and we really could mine for uranium in space.
As far as you know? you mean what google told you?
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No. I handle my mom's stock portfolio and have some of her money in uranium companies. Had to dump one when Bolivia went national. They were doing well until about 2 weeks ago. Now they're doing the same thing most all stocks are doing.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:29:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
HAHAHAHAHAH.
That was a joke you fool. there is no Coal in space. coal is essentially very very low grade oil, it is formed by the compression and metamorphosis of hughe amounts of plant life.
Some swedish scientists are STILL working on the age old prolem of making lead into gold, they don't actually use lead but did manage to develop a method of filtering gold out of sea water, but it cost way way too much.
The interesting fact is that the same process can be used to filter Uranium out of sea water.
And as the raw material cost of uranium is next to nothing in nuclear stations, 98% of costs coming from equipment/labour etc. the price of uranium could increase tenfold and nuclear power would STILL be economic.
There is obviously a limit to the amount of uranium in sea water, but its a BIG limit.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:19:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 05:43:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
Hey, we obviously wouldn't find oil oin mars or the moon, but whats wrong with coal, clean coal technology hs come a long way, its no longer the polluter it was, we're just running out here on earth is all.
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The problem with coal is that 'clean coal' is a recent myth of sorts. To convert a plant to 'clean coal' technology, which besides massive scrubbing, involves capturing the CO2 and other gasses and pumping them deep inside the earth, the effects of which have not been fully studied at all.
Will massive fissures erupt like a soda pop can? How will it affect the environment?
Here in the U.S., we have lots of coal, but the problem is, while there is apparently a recent development where coal can be converted to jet fuel (My step dad works for Peabody Coal, who, he says, have told him now have a contract with the U.S. government to produce it. Not sure how many people know that yet. Buy stock now!) our coal is relatively dirty coal. Meaning lots of sulphur. The coal seams out west aren't as bad, but the ones in the Pennsylvania coal seam, aka Kentucky, West Virginia, etc. aren't the cleanest beds around.
But again, we're still talking about a fossil fuel, an even dirtier one than oil here, and that's counterproductive in solving the other major problem as I see it, which is climate change. Are we all going to move to Canada's Hudson Bay when it gets too hot and hurricane-threatened in Florida? Will the English be moving to the South of France if the oceanic conveyor shuts down?
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:16:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes...but its not going to run out any time soon...and we really could mine for uranium in space.
As far as you know? you mean what google told you?
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:04:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The largest stores of uranium resources, as far as I know, are in Australia, parts of South America, and Canada's northwestern region. Most of the US's uranium has been mined, and I don't know if England is sitting on anything significant at all.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:02:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 05:42:03 (#)
Ranking: 0
Actually now I read the post rather than just scanning and assuming a debate on energy sources, its actually quite dumb.
1) nuclear power
2) rape seed oil.
should be the end of the discussion but I'm sure it won't, because in your world nuclear pwoer doesn't wrok right brad?
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Nuclear is not a true renewable. Uranium is an even harder resource to find than oil.
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:01:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-12 10:01:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:21:40 (#)
Ranking: 2
You see, I liked this a lot better than your infamous one-sided shortsighted ramblings before. You presented a discussion rather than an argument, and I commend you for that. Keep it up; it's far less abrasive, and you won't generate quite so much hostility as you did before.
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exactly.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-06-12 09:55:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"what about nuclear power?"
What about nuclear waste...
I suppose there is always africa.
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2006-06-12 09:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
decently not bad post.
what about nuclear power?
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2006-06-12 08:40:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
A sane post asking for political and human change...did I read that right? There wwasnt a single thing about conspiracies...that cant be right
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 05:43:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
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Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2006-06-12 05:18:51 (#)
Ranking: 2
I've heard one fella actually suggest we mine for it on Mars........
*sigh*
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Hey, we obviously wouldn't find oil oin mars or the moon, but whats wrong with coal, clean coal technology hs come a long way, its no longer the polluter it was, we're just running out here on earth is all.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 05:42:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Actually now I read the post rather than just scanning and assuming a debate on energy sources, its actually quite dumb.
1) nuclear power
2) rape seed oil.
should be the end of the discussion but I'm sure it won't, because in your world nuclear pwoer doesn't wrok right brad?
Submitted by williamson (user info) at 2006-06-12 05:18:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've heard one fella actually suggest we mine for it on Mars........
*sigh*
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 05:00:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
mind you reading the reviews on this post does quite a job of inflating my ego, some people just don't seem to know anything.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-06-12 04:56:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I could argue about the oversimplification of human history, but I won't.
Make your next post stupid please, I need intarweb arguments to make me feel superior.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 04:54:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"The point is that there are solutions out there and all the government intervention up to this point has prevented the move away from fossil fuels in favor of short term unsustainable price fixing. In the short term, it reaps massive profit for government and energy companies, but long term it will only spell their doom."
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No, they'll just take all that capital they've accumulated from their mega-successful oil-theivery and CIA drug ventures and invest it in the 'next big thing' in energy (if there is one). In short, the few families who are on top now will remain therebarring some major upset of power such as a war, a revolution, or a natural disaster.
But my concern is that there is currently no renewable resource that can possibly replace oil on its current scale.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 04:45:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"As oil shortages occur, the price of oil will increase. The basics of supply and demand economics dictate that people will use less oil at a higher price. To say that they have "no choice" is a fabricated lie because everyone who uses oil on a daily basis chooses to do so. Can't afford gas? Buy a bicycle you lazy fuck. Can't power the combine to plow the field? Use the corn you grow on your own land to make some ethanol and use that instead. Can't heat your home in Montana? Hey Mr. Kaczynski, move someplace warmer like Texas."
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You make some excellent points here, dude, but I think you're missing the larger issue of pure global logistics...
For instance, much of the world's food is grown in the 'bread basket' of the central North American plains, right? Ok, how do we ship it to those who need it if oil becomes uneconomical? Furthermore, like I said in a couple previous reviews, the size of our current output is DRIVEN by oil. Experts and history tell us that without modern machinery, output would decrease by as much as 70%! Think about that! 7 out of the 10 people in the world currently surviving on grain would starve to death!
This is going to be even FURTHER cut if we're trying to use grain for ethanol as well. Plus, the wasted energy involved in producing ethanol as opposed to more grain for food might not be worth it. The scheme could work if we were only using ethanol for food production and storage, but how likely is this? And again we're faced with the problem of transporting it to where it's needed. There are enormous logistical problems that will need to be changed in a fundamental way in order to simply feed everyone, let alone police them and provide necessary resources like clothing and shelter as well.
Think about it in terms of plastics. Almost everything we use now contains some plastic. We use it for nearly everything. No oil = no plastics. How would we smelt iron, copper, etc. if there's no more cheap and easily available fossil fuel?
What I'm most afraid of is a situation where a few elite have all the oil/ production capacity, while the masses are completely subservient because of this disenfranchisement. It isn't hard to envision a world where the populace was on oil and gas rations and the police and military got the bulk of the remaining reserves.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 04:30:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-06-12 04:03:57 (#)
Ranking: 2
Your point revolves around a concept that cannot exist. It is impossible in the real world for there to be one day in time where we all of a sudden go from having plenty of oil to no oil unless there is some sort of natural catastrophe that causes every molecule to disappear simultaneously.
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Unless they lie about how much is left. Not inconceivable, is it? Oil companies already do it. They already misrepresent how much oil is there on a daily basis, whether it be to control the taxes they pay or the price or the share price of their stock. I can't quote the source at the moment, but if you're realy interested in a good book, the one I'm reading right now is called "Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil" by Michael Ruppert.
It's eye-opening shit.
I think you're right in a sense, though. The transition will most likely be slow, but stark and unmistakable, marked by increased wars (to decrease population) and the introduction of increasingly devastating lab-created diseases perhaps even worse than AIDS or bird flu (again to cap off population).
Population control is going to be essential in lessening the inevitable blow. (In fact, I think it's already being used, just not here...in Africa.)
Ultimately, though, the oil doesn't have to run completely dry, it just has to become so difficult to get to that it's no longer economical or affordable for anyone but the most affluent and governments.
I envision a time when owning a gallon of gasoline will be just as illegal for the populace as owning a gun is in some countries. The only people who will have the gas will be the police.
Possible. Just thinking out loud.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-06-12 04:03:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Your point revolves around a concept that cannot exist. It is impossible in the real world for there to be one day in time where we all of a sudden go from having plenty of oil to no oil unless there is some sort of natural catastrophe that causes every molecule to disappear simultaneously.
No matter what kind of economic policy a given government or region implements, ultimately the global universal economy is based squarely on greedy capitalism. Government supported economies are only a small portion of the spectrum. The real economy includes things like crime war, theft, drugs, murder, prostitution, bribery, etc. whose markets all vary around regulations implemented by the local government. Government regulation can never eliminate any market, but the idea is to move the equilibrium point such that nobody except for government officials and their friends can profit off of it.
As oil shortages occur, the price of oil will increase. The basics of supply and demand economics dictate that people will use less oil at a higher price. To say that they have "no choice" is a fabricated lie because everyone who uses oil on a daily basis chooses to do so. Can't afford gas? Buy a bicycle you lazy fuck. Can't power the combine to plow the field? Use the corn you grow on your own land to make some ethanol and use that instead. Can't heat your home in Montana? Hey Mr. Kaczynski, move someplace warmer like Texas.
The reason why no one bothers with alternatives is not because of a global conspiracy by the world's energy companies, it's because oil is still pretty cheap. People spend $4 on a coffee at Starbucks and $500 on a designer shirt. Who gives a rat's ass if gas went up thirty cents a gallon?
Let's say that oil prices doubled. It's not as if civilization will shut down and cities will lie in ruin. People will drive less and demand cheap energy of one form or another. If oil prices went up ten times and it cost $30/gallon for gas, you can bet that the demand for hybrid cars would increase.
Plus, as the energy prices increase, the big prize money for finding a solution goes up. Let's say right now that hydrogen power is unreasonable because it would cost you $100 to generate as much energy as one gallon of gas, well then there you've set your oil price such that hydrogen becomes affordable. Gas gets to $100 / gallon and now there is no financial reason to opt for gas over hydrogen and the market balances out, demand for oil drops, the price stops skyrocketing, etc.
The point is that there are solutions out there and all the government intervention up to this point has prevented the move away from fossil fuels in favor of short term unsustainable price fixing. In the short term, it reaps massive profit for government and energy companies, but long term it will only spell their doom.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:55:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:21:40 (#)
Ranking: 2
You see, I liked this a lot better than your infamous one-sided shortsighted ramblings before. You presented a discussion rather than an argument, and I commend you for that. Keep it up; it's far less abrasive, and you won't generate quite so much hostility as you did before.
Unless you run into those guys who just can't seem to look past certain things. That's kinda frustrating.
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Thanks. But I still don't think my other posts are one-sided either. I just think they cut a little too close to the truth to be comfortable for most. I write what I write out of a deep sense of duty to wake people up to the things I see happening in the world right now and the changes I fear are coming all too fast. I say this shit, not because I have some Jesus complex, but because I care.
It's that simple. As much as I might hate you all, I still care about whether each and every one of you lives or dies in this world. I can't help it. For better or worse, we're all in this together, and when one of us dies, they take a piece of ourselves with them.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:50:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:36:17 (#)
Ranking: -2
And just so I don't have to answer later, the reason this is uniteresting and blase to me is because it advocates that which is perfect in a perfect world, and is damn near pointless in the world we live in.
Every dramatic shift in the history of mankind was based in a time when "the few had the most" wehther it be money, land, knowledge, information, etc etc.
And while there are still major gaps in the haves and have-nots, there is the middle class of "have-somes" which has never been the case before the start of the 19th century. We "have-somes" are now the majority in the world, and we buffer any actions between the haves and have-nots, making any general revolution of ideas and ideals a moot point, because you can not revolutionize people who do not care.
------------------
You actually believe there are 'have-somes'? Tell me, Jason, what do the middle class actually OWN? Do you think they'll be the ones controlling all the weapons in the end? How about the remaining oil? Will they control that?
Tell me what DEFINES this 'middle class' of which you speak, because to me, it's nothing more than a pampered lifestyle, a weekly paycheck, and a bunch of appliances that will be ultimately rendered USELESS.
You're right about one thing...knowledge is power. But who has the most knowledge...the middle class, or the ruling elite? At best, in the inevitable scenario of the end of the age of oil, that 'middle class' in which you seem to place so much faith will likely be reduced to a mass of squalid, cutthroat madmen willing to kill their own brother for their next meal. And that's just the ones with a CHANCE of survival. The weak will have no choice but to accept their fate and die.
You think this is far-fetched. You think I'm living in a fantasy world...that's ok. But I say it is you who are living in a fantasy world. The universe is cold, and nature is indiscriminate of age, race, intelligence, or class.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:40:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:12:05 (#)
Ranking: 2
What makes you think that this right now isn't the "time of great chaos, war, famine, and evil"?
Most of the world is in poverty. There is constant war throughout South America, Africa, and the Middle East. The rate of natural and manmade disasters is skyrocketing. Are you trying to tell me that this is the good times? If the world does the classical "plunge into chaos", it wouldn't be the end of individual freedom, but it would be the end of broad reaching governmental and corporate control. Considering that they're the ones most capable of creating widespread global problems, would such an outcome really be a bad thing?
As far as a solution, it's pretty silly to look to energy companies and government to solve the energy problems. They stand to profit the most from an energy crisis, so any lip service they give to finding a solution is only in an effort to gain more power in the meantime.
There are seven billion people in this world who can solve the energy problem. The bigger the price tag, the more interest there will be in finding the solution. The government's policies of keeping oil and gas prices low for individuals has if anything delayed the eventual solution that will allow us to move away from fossil fuels.
--------------
I think you're exactly right. I was pretty much alluding to now being that time of great chaos, without really saying as much.
I think you're missing one key thing here, though, Bart. You Say that the end of oil won't spell the end of individual freedom so much as the end of corporate control, but that's only half the story...
Besides the fact that our agricultural systems won't be able to sustain current levels becuase present techniques will be obsolete, thus cutting global output by as much as 70% according to some estimates, but there will be less available land upon which to live during the inevitable adjustment period. In short, we've cut down all the trees and paved everything. We've cleared all the land to build these massive cities forgetting that the ecology we've destroyed in the process was our greatest natural asset. Tell me where the 7 million people of Chicago will turn if there is no more oil? Will they all go fishing in Lake Michigan? Sleeping on Lakeshore Drive?
What about New York City? You think the rivers there will even sustain ONE person, let alone 12 million? And what about the peope who, having grown so accustomed to our pampered existence, have absolutely ZERO idea how to survive in a situation without refrigeration?
This brings me to another fundamental point... Where are the vast herds of bison that sustained the Native Americans all those thousands of years? Oh right...
This, to me, isn't just a matter of personal freedom, control, or power...it's about the sheer logistics of survival. This is one area where we should actually envy those who are not used to such conveniences we now enjoy. They will be the real winners in the end.
Perhaps the meek really CAN inherit the earth after all?
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:21:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You see, I liked this a lot better than your infamous one-sided shortsighted ramblings before. You presented a discussion rather than an argument, and I commend you for that. Keep it up; it's far less abrasive, and you won't generate quite so much hostility as you did before.
Unless you run into those guys who just can't seem to look past certain things. That's kinda frustrating.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:08:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
sounds like a snippet of the new Kevin Phillips book that Im reading.
freaky.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-12 03:00:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Filthy, I'm sure it is an interesting subject to some.
But just because it's not interesting to me, doesn't mean I should not be able to say so.
If that were the case, then no one would ever be able to voice their opinion on soccer.
And no, that's not supposed to make sense.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:42:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Jay, would you mind being quiet for once please? This is an interesting subject to a lot of people and it would be nice if more than the usual culprits could put their opinion forward without having to wade through your tired old rhetoric.
Submitted by street-pirate (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:37:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm hoping fusion power will save our asses. Good post.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:36:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And just so I don't have to answer later, the reason this is uniteresting and blase to me is because it advocates that which is perfect in a perfect world, and is damn near pointless in the world we live in.
Every dramatic shift in the history of mankind was based in a time when "the few had the most" wehther it be money, land, knowledge, information, etc etc.
And while there are still major gaps in the haves and have-nots, there is the middle class of "have-somes" which has never been the case before the start of the 19th century. We "have-somes" are now the majority in the world, and we buffer any actions between the haves and have-nots, making any general revolution of ideas and ideals a moot point, because you can not revolutionize people who do not care.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:28:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yes I do.
He would expect nothing less, and while this may be a bit more well written than the stuff he rambled on about before he left, it's still as uninteresting to me as it was before.
Submitted by goferforhire (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:21:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You didn't have to do that, j
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:12:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What's up ETS!
How ya doin' bro?
Good good, mhey man, I was wondering, how was your self-imposed one month exile?
You get those Che posters printed?
Get those letters drafted for your congressman?
How'd it go trying to get me fired from the Colorado Democratic Party, even though I volunteer?
(Oh, wait. I can answer that. You failed miserably, and now it's a joke at the phone bank that anytime someone complains, they're pulling an ETS. True story)
Can't WAIT for the slew of -2's to come, Brad.
I really can't wait.
Well, ol' pal, time to run and all. Work calling and such.
You have a GREAT time trying to bring down the government, and I'll check back in later.
Love ya, buddy!
Submitted by goferforhire (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:12:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
One of your deeper posts. I like. It actually makes me want to talk to you. I've got a project I'm working on...
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-06-12 02:12:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
What makes you think that this right now isn't the "time of great chaos, war, famine, and evil"?
Most of the world is in poverty. There is constant war throughout South America, Africa, and the Middle East. The rate of natural and manmade disasters is skyrocketing. Are you trying to tell me that this is the good times? If the world does the classical "plunge into chaos", it wouldn't be the end of individual freedom, but it would be the end of broad reaching governmental and corporate control. Considering that they're the ones most capable of creating widespread global problems, would such an outcome really be a bad thing?
As far as a solution, it's pretty silly to look to energy companies and government to solve the energy problems. They stand to profit the most from an energy crisis, so any lip service they give to finding a solution is only in an effort to gain more power in the meantime.
There are seven billion people in this world who can solve the energy problem. The bigger the price tag, the more interest there will be in finding the solution. The government's policies of keeping oil and gas prices low for individuals has if anything delayed the eventual solution that will allow us to move away from fossil fuels.
Submitted by supadupapupa (user info) at 2006-06-12 01:45:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
very though provoking, but we all know how it's going to end. This ain't no fairy tale movie, it's the real NUCLEAR world.
Submitted by Vengance (user info) at 2006-06-12 01:23:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"What lies within us can be even more scary than what lies about us."
-Brad Linzy
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-06-12 01:18:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
'What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared with what lies within us'
- Oliver Wendall Holmes
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2006-06-12 01:17:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Interesting post.