The Price of My Soul (or, why I'm prepared to be arrested for my beliefs) (3667 hits)
Category: PoliticsLabels: ets_sociopolitical_commentary ets_essays
Rating: 0.54 on 211 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (View user info) at 2006-06-18 16:44:05 EDT
http://www.ubersite.com/m/86432
In Matthew, chapter 22, when asked whether they should pay their census taxes to Roman Emperor Tiberius, Jesus told the Pharisees: "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's."
In this way, Jesus cleverly avoided self-incrimination while heightening the nature of the question into one of the transience of worldly wealth.
The problem arises when we realize what becomes of the money we contribute to Caesar. When this money is accepted by all to any ends that Caesar requests, and when it is being used to ends that are contrary to what Jesus called one of the two most important commandments, "Love thy neighbor as yourself", there is a dilemma.
So, again, I can only turn to Jesus' own words for help.
Matthew chapter 7 (aka: Sermon on the Mount) says:
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
16 By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.
18 A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore, by their fruits you will know them."
I know the fruits of my current government all too well. I see them everywhere. I look around me and I ask: what good these people have done in this world? What are their 'fruits'? What good are they doing in the world?
Some may say that governments are not inherently good or evil, but the men charged with running them make them so. Some would say that in a republic such as this, taxes should not be optional and voting should be the main stage for protest against the government. But does this mean a conscientious man should be made to wait around in the meantime in effectual collusion while his government tramples everything he holds sacred?
In all honesty I have never been much of a Christian because, frankly, the religion was ruined for me at an early age by the hypocrisy of many of its practitioners, but I believe in the teachings of this man they called "Christ", and when I search my heart, I know with an independence from everything I've been taught or seen in others the truth which he spoke.
I know right from wrong. I know it because it gives me shivers to hear it and I feel ashamed when I don't follow it. That is why when the Jesus speaks of the one unforgivable sin, I am not only compelled to listen, I realize I already know it in my heart:
MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".
User Reviews
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2008-03-06 10:34:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-10 05:30:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And see, I enjoy my shitty all caps assanine responses to ETS from time to time.
I figure, if he's going to be fanatical about whatever he's fanatical about, I might as well act the same way, at times.
Ah well.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-25 03:28:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You're still a fucking moron.
Submitted by rockdocc (user info) at 2006-06-23 20:40:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This is where I'm known. You guys are like an extended sort of dysfunctional family, so of course I'm gonna tell you before anyone else.
I regret that I'm not taken seriously. That's unfortunate. But I was hoping this might be a special case. Guess I was wrong."
i think more of us than you think take you seriously. or at the very least, take the things you talk about seriously but not so seriously that it gets pointless and drawn-out. ineffectual. i know you likely won't listen, but i'll try again anyway: if you haven't, read Zorba the Greek. life is for enjoying.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
we love you ETS.
no...sorry about that...actually most people here want you dead.
Not me personally of course, but my next door neighbor does.
actually I'm quite sure he doesn't even know about this website, yet he still wants you dead.
do you owe anybody any money, possibly a pimp or maybe a tsvt prostitute?
I dunno. I don't think I do, but then again all he says is "one day rockdocc (and ETS) I'm going to fucking kill you if you don't fuckin pay me"
I don't know what his problem is, but I'm quite sure it's got something to do with money. I don't know. I really don't use money...well, my own money that is, I usually rely on the goodness of other people/mugging to pay the bills.
it's a living.
but anyways, enough about your troubles with Leo that strange italian guy down the hall with the hot ass sister, and more about how much people here hate you, but I don't.
do you want to know why? One day, when you snap and start hunting down everyone on uber-site, you're going to stop by my room and say "thanks for the candybars"
and then resume the massacring (sp?) of innocents.
me love you long time...just don't kill me.
and fucking answer about the federal reserve, damnit, I WANT TO KNOW!
the truth is out there....either that or ETS is out there...hunting down the unbelievers.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-06-23 20:14:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fantasize about men in chaps?
Bah...I'm wearing some right now. They chafe.
Tell you what, I'd pay some good money to see that goat ETS bought all gussied up in some chaps.
mmmm... goats.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2006-06-23 09:07:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Obviously fantasizes about men in buttless chaps
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Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-06-22 04:47:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Jgreening:
Look, there is no need to be such a childish dickhead. What do you possibly hope to accomplish by wasting our time slogging through your poorly thought out nonsense. Ignoring even the fact you used all caps, a ridiculously childish choice all by itself, all you do is shit all over this so-called ETS "badguy" you have bought into. Listen to yourself:
"HOLY SHIT A WHOLE $178 THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE BECAUSE OF BRAD LINZY AND NOW I'LL HAVE TO PAY ANOTHER .000000000000003 CENTS IN GAS PER GALLON TO MAKE UP FOR THE AMAZING AMOUNT OF MONEY BRAD LINZY HAS NOT PAID THE GOVERNMENT."
I know civilized discourse is something of a fantasy when dealing with some of you fucking idiots.
So I had me a notion. Lets see if we can't bridge that gap.
So follow along closely.
OK.
So. Why don't we rephrase your barely legible spew... and go with something like:
"SO what? You spent 178 bucks. You seem to think that will make some sort of difference. Because YOU, Big Brad Linzy??? Big Fucking deal. So guess what... in the short term I'll have to pay another 0.000000000003 Cents. Thanks a lot, asshole. Not only is your gesture costing ME money... it's such a pathetic amount that it makes no fucking difference anyways. Now our tax dollars are going to be wasted sending some IRS monkey who has to track your delinquent ass down for the money you owe. All you do by not paying your taxes is rip ME and the rest of us who actually pay our taxes off. You are a degenerate Fuckwit. "
How about we go with that... You still come off like a prick, yet it pretty much sums up your decidedly narrow point of view.
Now, it just so happens that I credit ETS with the ability to converse at a very high level, so the following FICTIONAL response I have fabricated isn't entirely likely... but I am hopeful he will appreciate the philosophy.
ETS's completely fabricated response:
"Look, it's a gesture. I am well aware of that. Quite Frankly if you look around at a few posts you will see that I don't give it much of a shot, I understand that I am fairly confusing in my positions... its just this world is incredibly complex and that is the curse of the liberal position- all the GREY. By default I examine multiple angles of every situation I am in and a lot of my opinions are entirely contextual. (I mean it really DOES depend on the situation... you have to admit that.)
Sure I might give off this slightly insane, almost manic persona online because of my extreme frustration I feel about the world around me. I believe in what I am saying and I have initiated a process that while token in scope now, will lead to some very interesting and intense consequences. So while you might not think it means much in the short term.... it will most certainly mean more in the long run.
I don't quite know why you feel the need to use my name. It's very passive aggressive and weird. But you do what you want.
I'm picking up that my actions are not something you agree with, and it seems like its money that is the biggest issue for you and that I am wasting your taxes. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I am protesting. I'm at the top of the hill just chucking rocks at bigger rocks. Revolutions need to start somewhere... and I fully appreciate that I am at the very start of the journey. But with a little luck maybe we can make some sort of difference.
Still, yer kind of an asshole, so I don't know why I would bother explaining that to you.
Maybe you should be nicer. "
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Jgreening:
"I don't want to be nicer. I act like a sad pathetic prick largely because I can. You mean nothing to me. Although I suppose in the spirit of this whole "communication" thing, I might put out there that I just simply don't give a shit. So, really. Its not you, it me. I don't care. So whatever you say I am going to hate it. Why? Because I have decided I hate you. Which is pretty impressive given my horrible capacity for caring. I hate you so much.
See my life is pretty empty, really. I'm fairly sad and lonely, though I do find my limited participation in these uber-scraps hella entertaining. So fuck you.
OH, but hey...now that I have taken the time to actually hear what you have to say- I still think you are an asshole. But good luck, pansy."
Huh? Alright... Not quite as civilized as one would hope...but at least its honest. We can probably work on "tact" in the future.
But seriously, can you at least try and be smarter? Please?
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-06-21 23:19:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
HOLY SHIT A WHOLE $178 THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE BECAUSE OF BRAD LINZY AND NOW I'LL HAVE TO PAY ANOTHER .000000000000003 CENTS IN GAS PER GALLON TO MAKE UP FOR THE AMAZING AMOUNT OF MONEY BRAD LINZY HAS NOT PAID THE GOVERNMENT.
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-06-21 22:12:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The power is YOURS!
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-06-21 20:25:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm not even a slight hedonist. i don't actively search for pleasure, i just take pleasure in what i do. it's a mindset. still, read the book. i hope my saying that is getting annoying.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-21 19:31:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-06-21 18:46:10 (#)
Ranking: 0
"Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 15:11:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
This is where I'm known. You guys are like an extended sort of dysfunctional family, so of course I'm gonna tell you before anyone else.
I regret that I'm not taken seriously. That's unfortunate. But I was hoping this might be a special case. Guess I was wrong."
i think more of us than you think take you seriously. or at the very least, take the things you talk about seriously but not so seriously that it gets pointless and drawn-out. ineffectual. i know you likely won't listen, but i'll try again anyway: if you haven't, read Zorba the Greek. life is for enjoying.
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I'm only partial hedonist. Seize the day, but don't compromise who you are in the process.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-06-21 18:46:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 15:11:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
This is where I'm known. You guys are like an extended sort of dysfunctional family, so of course I'm gonna tell you before anyone else.
I regret that I'm not taken seriously. That's unfortunate. But I was hoping this might be a special case. Guess I was wrong."
i think more of us than you think take you seriously. or at the very least, take the things you talk about seriously but not so seriously that it gets pointless and drawn-out. ineffectual. i know you likely won't listen, but i'll try again anyway: if you haven't, read Zorba the Greek. life is for enjoying.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 21:39:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Zol (user info) at 2006-06-20 21:35:41 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-06-20 14:48:15 (#)
Ranking: 2
Holy shit, ETS. Three posts on the top 4 most heated? How in the hell do you do it?
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It is easy. Caul hates him.
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The kid is like a godsend.
Submitted by Zol (user info) at 2006-06-20 21:35:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-06-20 14:48:15 (#)
Ranking: 2
Holy shit, ETS. Three posts on the top 4 most heated? How in the hell do you do it?
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It is easy. Caul hates him.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 20:10:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-06-20 18:45:15 (#)
Ranking: 2
Well... Here is a thought (and it's a decidedly simple one... so don't expect some sort of symphonic moment.) We now have this delightful ability to instantly communicate- I say we as a society take FULL advantage of it.
I think we needs to make us a revolutionary communications website. (as a starting point)
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It would instantly be labeled a 'terrorist organization'. Our communications would be tracked and our phone calls taped until the minute one of us slipped up and tried to buy an ounce of weed or something, then they'd arrest us all on trumped up charges. Trust me, if there's any way they think there's danger of fundamental change in the system, you'll see just how fascist our system really is.
I suspect it's only a matter of time before talks like this on the internet are a thing of the past.
They'll say: "just like we needed more security along the border, we now need more security along our electronic border".
Look for the term "ELECTRONIC BORDER" to start turning up in speeches. Then you'll know it's happening. They're already preparing the public by making news story after news story of dangers of child pornography and molestation on the internet, and they'll milk that any way they can to get people not relenting, but DEMANDING this right be taken from them in the name of 'saving the children and preventing terror".
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 20:02:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-06-20 18:45:15 (#)
Ranking: 2
I say right fucking on.
You go dude.
Quite frankly I think it is beautiful theater Mr. Syndrome. Bravo. You are a very compelling individual, and your passion is very Christ-like indeed.
----------------
Thank you for that gushing review. I can tell by it that you understand. But please....don't encourage me, or them for that matter, by comparing me to Christ in any way. :P
They'll crucif...uhhhh....I mean get very angry with me over it.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-06-20 19:00:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Shut the fuck up rob_berg/ETS.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-06-20 18:45:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I say right fucking on.
You go dude.
Quite frankly I think it is beautiful theater Mr. Syndrome. Bravo. You are a very compelling individual, and your passion is very Christ-like indeed.
I suggest you start growing your beard immediately.
hehe.
Although seriously, I commend your sprit. I assume that you have made peace with the fact that most people are convinced you are at least somewhat insane. Personally I think yer brilliant. A little dramatic, a titch melodramatic, but all in all this world would be much better place if more people had the good sense to wake up and take note of the stupidity all around them. An even better place if people actually really started doing something about it.
Problem is... people generally suck.
Oh sure, individually we are fairly fantastic in our own special way... but collectively we tend to be retarded and very poorly led. We the people have better things to do with our time and have far too many distractions to really give a shit about anything that falls outside of our own personal little bubble of society. Those who aren't ignorant are most certainly apathetic and lazy. (Unless yer a hippie, of course- then you are just marginalized and tend to annoy people.)
I think that Jesus fellow of yours would certainly agree that this world is pretty fucking absurd.
I say we do something about it. We need a plan.
The biggest problem we have in the world today is accountability. I'm sure most of you big brained nerds would agree with me on this one.
Corporations and their puppet governments all the way to Bubba Fuckwit and his V12 monster truck... it's the same bullshit. People are just not held very accountable for their actions unless they really mess up and "get caught" or simply run out of money.
In this fractured democracy most of us buy into, rules are painfully arbitrary. Bureaucracy chokes up even the most basic of our processing needs and government waste is downright depressing. Our governments are far too bloated and inefficient to ever properly and honestly deal with things that affect the environment, education, healthcare, and certainly not taxes.
World governments are slowly failing us... and in the truest sense of all things democratic- we are failing ourselves. We need to move from being governed by party doctrine and hubristic agendas to one that is issue based. (...and ultimately solution oriented.)
Well... Here is a thought (and it's a decidedly simple one... so don't expect some sort of symphonic moment.) We now have this delightful ability to instantly communicate- I say we as a society take FULL advantage of it.
I think we needs to make us a revolutionary communications website. (as a starting point)
A website that utilizes mainstream media, search engines AND the blogosphere to contextualize the world. (an uberCOMsite, if you will.) By centralizing all of those information feeds we would allow ourselves the opportunity to properly scrutinize the heaps of information out there, disseminate the major news stories, identify the most compelling and/or offensive of these reports, qualify and rank their importance, and ultimately set the path for their eventual resolution.
Accountability at its best, baby.
Retain the webs best GUI development agencies out there and purposefully build a real portal site.
Hire all of the smart "enlightened" people out there to publicly debate the hot button topics intelligently with at least a modicum of civilized discourse. All arguments would have to be quantifiable, well researched and most importantly educational.
Employ teams of photo journalists and investigative journalists to do regular expose programs... and CONTINUE to hire them to follow up and document the progress of some of the more painful ball dropping out there in the real world.
Create a site with huge minerals.
Big Job? No shit.
First thing comes to mind is that something like this would require some serious funding. (Anyone know Bill Gates personally? He's got lots of cash he wants to give away to make the world a better place... why not chuck a few million into this little project? C'mon Bill. It'll be fun. Call me.)
Think about it. With a little coordination, things like "Facts." could be instantly verified or aggressively researched by peer groups whose discoveries are posted immediately. Create a database that is certified "non-partisan". How do you accomplish that? I say we hire up the nerds. Actually PAY people like you, and method, and Bart, and all the political science monkeys who inhabit the internet. Heck, even hire up the smart bitter red neck conservative asshole- types. The smartest people online need to be rounded up, networked, and paid to aggressively research assertions directly made by any side of any argument or dispute going down in the world today.
The only way to combat the rampant stupidity in the world is through education. Sadly, the internet as it exists right now is a cesspool of incomplete ideas, unsubstantiated opinions, and misleading information. People SHOULD be skeptical about the information they get online- so I figured by creating a verifiably source of "clean information" this would be the starting point of a true global awareness.
huh?
HUH?
ANYways, its a thought. We will need to start a revolution eentually... why not be proactive?
r.
*So that was it huh? (grabs Kleenex) Somewhat anti-climactic, yet for the most part satisfying.
One down, the rest to go.
Submitted by mono_blanco (user info) at 2006-06-20 16:54:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good work. Legitimate concrete efforts to move things towards what you believe in always deserve respect...
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 15:11:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 13:30:55 (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, of course! I understand now because publicizing a protest on a website where people are rarely, if ever, taken seriously makes perfect sense.
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This is where I'm known. You guys are like an extended sort of dysfunctional family, so of course I'm gonna tell you before anyone else.
I regret that I'm not taken seriously. That's unfortunate. But I was hoping this might be a special case. Guess I was wrong.
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2006-06-20 14:48:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Holy shit, ETS. Three posts on the top 4 most heated? How in the hell do you do it?
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-06-20 13:44:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
D-PRIME MADNESS ROUND 1 --> http://www.ubersite.com/m/89428
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2006-06-20 13:39:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 13:30:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 13:15:29 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:50:18 (#)
Ranking: 0
Protest is not protest unless it is public.
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I'm not telling 'you' so much as I'm telling everyone. Do you not understand the concept of political dissent? Protest? Are you so numb and dumb to the means used for thousands of years of petitioning for redress of grievances that you can't understand this simple concept?
It's public protest. That's what it is. It's public protest done for personal conscientious reasons.
Agree or disagree, that's your right and prerogative, but I stand by what I've done whether you understand it or not.
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Oh, of course! I understand now because publicizing a protest on a website where people are rarely, if ever, taken seriously makes perfect sense.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-20 13:21:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I like the idea of people having a choice to use capitalistic doctors or socialistic doctors. Actually, that might be an answer. I wonder what the results of such an experiment would be wherein we allowed a capitalist healthcare system to remain in tact, but we gave people the option to sign up for out opt out of social healthcare... """
That's actually how it works in France and it has shown a lot more effective than pure socialized healthcare. A system with both options is what the silent majority is pushing for here, but in good old socialist fashion, it is blocked by various pressure groups who think the state should provide for everything.
Salary caps for doctors is a double-edge sword. We have the lowest paid doctors in North America but we also have the biggest brain drain. They study here and expatriate themselves. Because
of that, some quebecers opt or in some case, are forced to get treated in the United States.
The demographic problem (babyboomer generation) impacts our healthcare even more than it impacts yours, for obvious reasons.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 13:15:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:50:18 (#)
Ranking: 0
Protest is not protest unless it is public.
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I'm not telling 'you' so much as I'm telling everyone. Do you not understand the concept of political dissent? Protest? Are you so numb and dumb to the means used for thousands of years of petitioning for redress of grievances that you can't understand this simple concept?
It's public protest. That's what it is. It's public protest done for personal conscientious reasons.
Agree or disagree, that's your right and prerogative, but I stand by what I've done whether you understand it or not.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:57:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:29:55 (#)
Ranking: 0
Perhaps we could learn from your country's mistakes?"""
Depends which province you're looking at. One thing is for sure, the Québec model is not working. We're the only province where there is a law that prevents you from getting a private insurance for healthcare services.
The monopoly is hurting us. There are ridiculous aberrations. They say there is about 11-12 civil servant for every doctor.
"La roue est folle." like we say.
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Interesting...
I like the idea of people having a choice to use capitalistic doctors or socialistic doctors. Actually, that might be an answer. I wonder what the results of such an experiment would be wherein we allowed a capitalist healthcare system to remain in tact, but we gave people the option to sign up for out opt out of social healthcare... Then again, the rich would all opt out and crash the system. Then the lawmakers would respond in kind with hiking their taxes. The rich would respond by becoming more political and using their great wealth to lobby and get certain officials elected who would overturn the system. Basically, we'd be right back where we started, I think, unless there was a Constitutional amendment guaranteeing people the right to healthcare. This might cause its own set of problems as well, though.
I know this for sure, either way, we need to put caps on doctors for every type of procedure. There are certain things in life that are necessities for survival and should not be left optional to states as a constitutional measure.
For instance, we wouldn't leave it up to states to create laws that outlawed the growing of food or the building of shelter, likewise, healthcare needs to be centralized and standardized, and its expenses shared among the many for the benefit of all.
I think my solution is leaning more and more toward this:
1: Have each state set up an elected committee to review the state's healthcare system and make decisions about the cap cost of every possible procedure as a means of trust-busting. (Because healthcare in a modern society should be considered a necessity, not a luxury, and by that definition, should not be held in the same 'free-market' mold as other things. There HAVE to be caps.
2: Have this same committee be charged with reviewing every civil lawsuit brought against doctors and hospitals to determine up front whether the suit was credible or frivilous BEFORE going to court. I understand this has certain legal ramifications, but this is why electing the right people is so important. Just like the supreme court has the last say on certain issues, these people would have the first and last say on this one.
We have to reduce the cost of healthcare in this country to managable levels, or the babyboomers are going to break the system entirely. It's that simple.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:52:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Why do you want us all to know about it? """
Because he believes he is a great man destined to a higher purpose.
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:50:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:21:26 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:05:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
I don't understand why you felt the need to prove you kept your word to a bunch of internet strangers who don't/never will know you and therefore don't/never will give a shit about you or anything you do. This doesn't even really prove anything.
If you really didn't pay your taxes, you're a fucking idiot. Not just because you could go to prison but because that's probably the most trivial and insignificant thing you could do to fight our government. Depriving them of $200? I doubt the government and the entire U.S. is going to fall apart because of $200.
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It was $178. And it is a largely symbolic testament of my conviction.
I don't expect you to understand that.
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Well then please explain. Why must you post this information? If you don't want to pay your taxes, fine. The only person you're hurting or affecting at all is yourself. Why do you want us all to know about it?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:29:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Perhaps we could learn from your country's mistakes?"""
Depends which province you're looking at. One thing is for sure, the Québec model is not working. We're the only province where there is a law that prevents you from getting a private insurance for healthcare services.
The monopoly is hurting us. There are ridiculous aberrations. They say there is about 11-12 civil servant for every doctor.
"La roue est folle." like we say.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:21:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:05:32 (#)
Ranking: -2
I don't understand why you felt the need to prove you kept your word to a bunch of internet strangers who don't/never will know you and therefore don't/never will give a shit about you or anything you do. This doesn't even really prove anything.
If you really didn't pay your taxes, you're a fucking idiot. Not just because you could go to prison but because that's probably the most trivial and insignificant thing you could do to fight our government. Depriving them of $200? I doubt the government and the entire U.S. is going to fall apart because of $200.
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It was $178. And it is a largely symbolic testament of my conviction.
I don't expect you to understand that.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:19:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-20 09:51:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
What I'm trying to tell you ETS is that socialized healthcare is more expensive than private healthcare and that it is not an economic choice but a social one.
When a government takes control of anything, cost rockets.
If Americans, at 300 000 000 people spent just what we spend on a provincial level...it would reach more than 2 trillion USD. Add to that federal money, the figures are absurd.
What's the % of taxes that you pay on your paycheck?
I make about 50K and I pay more than 40%.
All I'm saying is that unless you live in Scandinavian countries, which seem to be inhabited by robots, socialism has a lot of downsides.
We just get fucked up the ass differently.
----------------------
Sounds to me like you need reforms as well. If we're going to socialize healthcare, we should take the time to do it wisely and do it right.
Perhaps we could learn from your country's mistakes?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:16:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-06-20 03:54:41 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-18 17:25:57 (#)
Ranking: 0
The federal government is supposed to be there for the sole purpose of defence and to enure that states uphold the Constitution. That's it. They are certainly NOT there to wage preemptive war or eavesdrop on my private conversations. That's diametrically OPPOSED to what the Constitution states.
================================================
Y HELO THAR REAGAN
---------------------
That DOES NOT include sending the CIA around the world to do all your dirty work for you and then take the fall when the shit hits the fan, which is what Reagan did. We're STILL paying for his mistakes in this area, not to mention his economics... "Deficit City" is not the name of a David Bowie song.
Submitted by BadAssJulie (user info) at 2006-06-20 12:05:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I don't understand why you felt the need to prove you kept your word to a bunch of internet strangers who don't/never will know you and therefore don't/never will give a shit about you or anything you do. This doesn't even really prove anything.
If you really didn't pay your taxes, you're a fucking idiot. Not just because you could go to prison but because that's probably the most trivial and insignificant thing you could do to fight our government. Depriving them of $200? I doubt the government and the entire U.S. is going to fall apart because of $200.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-20 09:51:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:13:45 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:54:40 (#)
Ranking: -2
++You're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared """
Your super wiki research only compares on both federal spendings. It doesn't take into account provinces who deal with the biggest chunk of the bill.
Let me quote my first reply that you ignored: "The budget for our healthcare in Québec was 55+ billion (AND THAT'S NOT MENTIONNING FEDERAL AID WHICH RANKS IN BILLIONS TOO)"
The U.S. government does spend more than the Canadian government on healthcare per capita but healthcare still fall under the juridiction of provinces. Not one province has the same system. The outrageous amount of tax I pay are to the Québec government whereas Albertans, who have an American-like system which get by only with federal money, pay ZERO provincial taxes.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I could explain in further details why you don't know shit until tomorrow morning but it's been demonstrated before that your ego is more important than facts so I won't bother.
I'm living in this country where this is a heated debate and you think you're gonna show me how it works with two-minutes Google searches? Way to go, idiot.
----------------------
There you go again...getting all personal. All you had to do was explain what I was missing and correct it, but you'd rather bash me personally.
I accept that I didn't take into account provincial taxes. I honestly didn't know that. Thank you for educating me there. I also agree that lack of consideration for that skews the numbers in favor of your argument (which I still haven't figured out is for or against socialized healthcare).
If you want to bring provincial spending into the federal considerations, then let's do the same for the American side... Only this time, instead of provincial taxes, we're going to talk about how much Americans spend out of pocket and on insurance, meaning the TOTAL spent on healthcare.
National Health Care Spending
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
* In 2004, health care spending in the United States reached $1.9 trillion, and was projected to reach $2.9 trillion in 2009 (2).
* Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense (4).
* In 2004, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent in the next decade (2).
* Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens. (4)
* Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. (5)
$1.9 trillion. Excessive much?
===
What I'm trying to tell you ETS is that socialized healthcare is more expensive than private healthcare and that it is not an economic choice but a social one.
When a government takes control of anything, cost rockets.
If Americans, at 300 000 000 people spent just what we spend on a provincial level...it would reach more than 2 trillion USD. Add to that federal money, the figures are absurd.
What's the % of taxes that you pay on your paycheck?
I make about 50K and I pay more than 40%.
All I'm saying is that unless you live in Scandinavian countries, which seem to be inhabited by robots, socialism has a lot of downsides.
We just get fucked up the ass differently.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-06-20 03:54:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-18 17:25:57 (#)
Ranking: 0
The federal government is supposed to be there for the sole purpose of defence and to enure that states uphold the Constitution. That's it. They are certainly NOT there to wage preemptive war or eavesdrop on my private conversations. That's diametrically OPPOSED to what the Constitution states.
================================================
Y HELO THAR REAGAN
Submitted by the_lone_stranger (user info) at 2006-06-20 02:15:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Stick it teh bush!
Submitted by Chazzy (user info) at 2006-06-20 00:35:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Marge, let's end this feudin' and a-fussin' and get down to some lovin'.
-- Homer Simpson
Colonel Homer
Submitted by Nie_ein_Engel (user info) at 2006-06-20 00:25:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm not that big on Jesus, but just as a human being, what a wonderful gesture. Cheers.
The fact that you provided a goat is even cooler.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-06-19 21:05:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ets, get back on msn you fucker.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-06-19 20:45:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Heh
On a lighter note, was it wrong of me to snicker a little at "provide a goat?" The very first thing that popped into my head was (I'm telling the truth).....'Geeezus! He's providing them a sacrificial goat?! WTF?!'
Of course a split second later, I sorted everything out.
Funny how one's brain works.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 20:32:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-19 20:07:16 (#)
Ranking: -2
You are questioning peoples ability to make judgement calls about America when they haven't traveled much, even though you haven't really experienced what living in another country is like.
---------------
What the hell is your point?
You can't judge something you have no knowledge of. I think I've stated that pretty damn unequivocally. I never said 'America is the greatest' and I never said I had the right to.
You're the one making no sense, not me.
You have to dumbests fucking arguments sometimes, it's pathetic.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-19 20:07:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 19:49:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-06-19 18:53:58 (#)
Ranking: 0
Our next election is not that far off. We need to start educating and preparing ourselves now.
--------------------
And I feel like I'm doing my part...or at least trying. Whether people listen to me or not is a different story.
--------------------------------------------
You are doing your part but you have never voted?
You are a fucking idiot, what message do you send about making change if you can't even be bothered to vote?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:25:47 (#)
Ranking: 0
Been there twice, not once.
Even so, I'm not the one claiming this is the best country on earth, so your argument is meaningless.
---------------------------------
You are questioning peoples ability to make judgement calls about America when they haven't traveled much, even though you haven't really experienced what living in another country is like.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 19:49:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-06-19 18:53:58 (#)
Ranking: 0
Our next election is not that far off. We need to start educating and preparing ourselves now.
--------------------
And I feel like I'm doing my part...or at least trying. Whether people listen to me or not is a different story.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-06-19 18:53:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I stay out of political discussions because as you can see, they are rarely civil, and go in circles.
But seriously ETS, you're burning yourself up over a situation that you can't feasibly change right now.
Some have called me apathetic.
We can't change anything right now. If we could we would have already. We have no choice but to educate ourselves, prepare, and excecute the changes by doing our duty and voting in the next presidential election.
We know the reality of the power dynamic at work in our government.
Our next election is not that far off. We need to start educating and preparing ourselves now.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-06-19 18:48:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:53:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:01:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
-----------
These two are right of the pages of MAD magazine:
HEATWHORE vs. HEATWHORE
Caul of course, with his leather trenchcoat and Blue Tigre looks is the black Spy, and Bradley, with his pasty white complection due to basement living and tinfoil headgear, is the white Spy.
Submitted by DarthAwesome (user info) at 2006-06-19 18:25:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so many bitter comments, you guys definetely need a song to lighten your day.
Berrrrr chinnnnng wum, buddddily dudddily niip neerrwungggg, ba da da der ner na bwunggggg, nidddly nunnng berrrrrr blunnnnggggggg, biddly niddly niddly plunggg tung dung didly dum ber derrr nerr bu neeeerrrrr, ba da dadd ba neerrrrrrrrrr
welll shes walking, ba neerrr nerrr, through the clouds, ba da da da, with a circus mindddddd thats running round, ba na naa naa naa
BUTTA FLYZ AND ZEBRAS, Mooooooooon beams an a fairy tailsss, thats all she eva thinks bout
riding on the wiiiiiiinnnnnddddd
ba neerr nerr ba nerrr per PLINNNGGN
ba da dada ba dada ba dad daaa *SPLASH
PERRNINNNNNGGGGGG
When im sadddd *EMO TEARS she comes to meeeeee, oooooooo with a thousand smilesssss she gives to me freee ba da da da da its all right she says its all right cause you can take anythinnnnnng you want from me ba niddly ner ba niddly neerrr biiiiinnnnng OOOOOOOO ANYTHINGGGGGGGGGGGG OOOOOOOO
BA DIIIINNNg
NA, NA NA NA NA NA FLLLLY ON LITTLE WING
ooo ooo didddly neer neer neerr neeer buuuuhmmmm, plung dunng bud diddly nerp nerp, bud diddy derr derrr, ba niddly plung plung, pinnnnng, PINNNNNNNG, NEEEEEEEEEEEERRRR
*fade out
Submitted by PoTtY (user info) at 2006-06-19 18:02:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Haha you bought a goat.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:25:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:07:58 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:02:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:27:51 (#)
Ranking: 0
inion, americans keep saying they live in the best country in the whole wide world...quit bitching.
----------------
And I wonder how many of those who say that actually have been outside the country...
------------------------------------
Not everyone can be a world traveler like you.
Refresh my memory; you visited the UK once for like a week? What an exotic adventurer you are.
-------------------------
Been there twice, not once.
Even so, I'm not the one claiming this is the best country on earth, so your argument is meaningless.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:23:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"Taxes can be worthwhile when used wisely under good policy."
Thanks commie, I wasnt talking to you.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:22:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:18:20 (#)
Ranking: -2
"The U.S. government does spend more than the Canadian government on healthcare per capita but healthcare still fall under the juridiction of provinces. Not one province has the same system. The outrageous amount of tax I pay are to the Québec government whereas Albertans, who have an American-like system which get by only with federal money, pay ZERO provincial taxes."
-------
Then move here...
YEAH NO TAX
------------------
Taxes can be worthwhile when used wisely under good policy.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:18:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"The U.S. government does spend more than the Canadian government on healthcare per capita but healthcare still fall under the juridiction of provinces. Not one province has the same system. The outrageous amount of tax I pay are to the Québec government whereas Albertans, who have an American-like system which get by only with federal money, pay ZERO provincial taxes."
-------
Then move here...
YEAH NO TAX
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:17:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:09:01 (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh how I hate giving you what you want. . .
But hey, what are ya gonna do? BECAUSE WE ARE CHARITY BROTHERS! World Vision takes MY money every month TOO!!!
Small world, huh?
But yeah, I guess that was about it.
Go WorldVision, Woo.
You still suck for coming back though.
----------------
I know. I won't bother you all long.
The last thing I wanted was to appear to be patting myself on the back for something here, but I just wanted the skeptics to at least know that I was sincere when I said I was doing this.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:13:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:54:40 (#)
Ranking: -2
++You're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared """
Your super wiki research only compares on both federal spendings. It doesn't take into account provinces who deal with the biggest chunk of the bill.
Let me quote my first reply that you ignored: "The budget for our healthcare in Québec was 55+ billion (AND THAT'S NOT MENTIONNING FEDERAL AID WHICH RANKS IN BILLIONS TOO)"
The U.S. government does spend more than the Canadian government on healthcare per capita but healthcare still fall under the juridiction of provinces. Not one province has the same system. The outrageous amount of tax I pay are to the Québec government whereas Albertans, who have an American-like system which get by only with federal money, pay ZERO provincial taxes.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I could explain in further details why you don't know shit until tomorrow morning but it's been demonstrated before that your ego is more important than facts so I won't bother.
I'm living in this country where this is a heated debate and you think you're gonna show me how it works with two-minutes Google searches? Way to go, idiot.
----------------------
There you go again...getting all personal. All you had to do was explain what I was missing and correct it, but you'd rather bash me personally.
I accept that I didn't take into account provincial taxes. I honestly didn't know that. Thank you for educating me there. I also agree that lack of consideration for that skews the numbers in favor of your argument (which I still haven't figured out is for or against socialized healthcare).
If you want to bring provincial spending into the federal considerations, then let's do the same for the American side... Only this time, instead of provincial taxes, we're going to talk about how much Americans spend out of pocket and on insurance, meaning the TOTAL spent on healthcare.
National Health Care Spending
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
* In 2004, health care spending in the United States reached $1.9 trillion, and was projected to reach $2.9 trillion in 2009 (2).
* Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense (4).
* In 2004, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent in the next decade (2).
* Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens. (4)
* Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. (5)
$1.9 trillion. Excessive much?
I know there is a better way, a way that both encourages doctors to keep practicing medicine in the U.S. and curtails the heavy expenses each of us incur when we visit a hospital. The bottom line is, though, we have to put limits on the amount doctors and hospitals can charge and we have to control the costs of medication.
Submitted by Teephphah (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:09:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh how I hate giving you what you want. . .
But hey, what are ya gonna do? BECAUSE WE ARE CHARITY BROTHERS! World Vision takes MY money every month TOO!!!
Small world, huh?
But yeah, I guess that was about it.
Go WorldVision, Woo.
You still suck for coming back though.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:07:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:02:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:27:51 (#)
Ranking: 0
inion, americans keep saying they live in the best country in the whole wide world...quit bitching.
----------------
And I wonder how many of those who say that actually have been outside the country...
------------------------------------
Not everyone can be a world traveler like you.
Refresh my memory; you visited the UK once for like a week? What an exotic adventurer you are.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 16:02:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:27:51 (#)
Ranking: 0
inion, americans keep saying they live in the best country in the whole wide world...quit bitching.
----------------
And I wonder how many of those who say that actually have been outside the country...
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:54:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
++You're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared """
Your super wiki research only compares on both federal spendings. It doesn't take into account provinces who deal with the biggest chunk of the bill.
Let me quote my first reply that you ignored: "The budget for our healthcare in Québec was 55+ billion (AND THAT'S NOT MENTIONNING FEDERAL AID WHICH RANKS IN BILLIONS TOO)"
The U.S. government does spend more than the Canadian government on healthcare per capita but healthcare still fall under the juridiction of provinces. Not one province has the same system. The outrageous amount of tax I pay are to the Québec government whereas Albertans, who have an American-like system which get by only with federal money, pay ZERO provincial taxes.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I could explain in further details why you don't know shit until tomorrow morning but it's been demonstrated before that your ego is more important than facts so I won't bother.
I'm living in this country where this is a heated debate and you think you're gonna show me how it works with two-minutes Google searches? Way to go, idiot.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:53:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:01:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:53:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul is right on the univseral health care...plus the fact that doctor's salaries are normally capped in a universal system so there is no motivation for them to receive bonuses based on survival rate or anything else right that. Also, if the salaries are capped, then it would not be as a sought after profession, meaning that you wont have the very best doctors in your local hospital.
===
Despite the fact that our doctors might not be the very best, it's been in the news that we still recieve a better treatment than in the U.S (generally, of course) since insurance companies cover less and less.
That's a plus of a universal healthcare system.
A minus is the huge fucking hole it punches in a budget.
The best way is to have both systems. Our to at least impose a small 10-15$ fee at the ER because some people are REALLY abusing the system. There are lonely old people who go there just to socialize and chat with a doctor. I'm not kidding. Homeless people who call the cops "Hey, I'll kill myself" just so they get strapped to a hospital bed, which beats sleeping on an icy pavement. Hell, I myself went to the hospital for the dumbest things. It's out of control.
--------------------
A nominal fee seems reasonable to curtail abuse.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:44:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:42:12 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:41:14 (#)
Ranking: 0
not all of us. actually i told the irs dude that i'm moving to canada...
===
lots of americans say "That's it, I'm moving to Canada" but they never actually do it, which is great.
----------
when i get outta school i'm checking out vancouver. i miss wa and bc's exactly the same in the wilderness department so i was thinking there.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:07:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:01:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:53:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul is right on the univseral health care...plus the fact that doctor's salaries are normally capped in a universal system so there is no motivation for them to receive bonuses based on survival rate or anything else right that. Also, if the salaries are capped, then it would not be as a sought after profession, meaning that you wont have the very best doctors in your local hospital.
===
Despite the fact that our doctors might not be the very best, it's been in the news that we still recieve a better treatment than in the U.S (generally, of course) since insurance companies cover less and less.
_____________________
Id rather have better doctors when my life. I really dont mind the waits in the ER room and such that, i assume, are factored in when talking about treatment.
______________________
The best way is to have both systems. Our to at least impose a small 10-15$ fee at the ER because some people are REALLY abusing the system. There are lonely old people who go there just to socialize and chat with a doctor. I'm not kidding. Homeless people who call the cops "Hey, I'll kill myself" just so they get strapped to a hospital bed, which beats sleeping on an icy pavement. Hell, I myself went to the hospital for the dumbest things. It's out of control.
_________________________
People take advantage of that too in the US because US Emergency Rooms cannot turn down patients no matter if they have insurance or not. There are a ton of cases when people from Latin America will fly up to the US just so that they can give birth or have thier broken arm fixed. A lot of people will also come in to try to get medical slips to get off work for a few days, showing how insanely lazy this country really is.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:07:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul,
>> Americans pay very little taxes compared to most nations so "spending half of every tax dollar on the military" is all very relative. Perhaps if you read the rest of my reply instead of making selective arguments as usual, you would've caught that, you fucking idiot.
++You're still missing my point. Not surprising.
$420.7 billion 2005 military spending (that's just what's on the discretionary budget which doesn't even include the wars, which are on a 'black budget')
http://www.georgiapeace.org/USmilitary%20Budget.htm
Out-of-pocket health care spending per capita was $707 in the US in 2000, more than twice the industrialized nation average ($328). Why do you think that is, Caul?
http://www.cmwf.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=221624
In 2004 (the latest year data are available), total national health expenditures rose 7.9 percent -- over three times the rate of inflation (1). Total spending was $1.9 TRILLION in 2004, or $6,280 per person (1). Total health care spending represented 16 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
------
>> And look at the top ten GDP and take a good hard look at the gap between the U.S and the second. In a normal world where people don't drop acid on a daily basis, military expenditures are calculated by percentage of GDP. You're not even in the top 25, http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Military_expenditures_Percent_Of_GDP_top25.htm
++First, you don't have to try to insult me personally every time I disagree with you. Second, being a multibillionaire shouldn't excuse you from burning $100 million dollars in a bonfire should it? Or spending $800 for a hammer? Then you can't hold the richest country on the planet to the same standards as countries whose GDP or GDI pales by comparison. It's like trying to make a case that the New York Yankess are on a level playing field with everyone else in the league even though they might spend 10 times as much in player salary as another team simply because you're looking at their spending vs. their available cash. My question to you is: how much more do they need to ensure victory?
--------
>> I shown you how universal healthcare is expensive with actual figures. It represents half of our fucking budget and we pay more taxes than anyone in North America. You seem to think it's free by saying "If we can have bombers, why can't we have hospitals on every street corner " But in reality, universal healthcare is extremely expensive and americans are way to greedy to pay for that.
++You think I don't know taxes would have to increase under socialized healthcare? Like Inion said below, I'm fine with that. Cut military spending in half and stop perpetrating wars all over the globe and we wouldn't even have to raise them as much.
Besides, you're forgetting that a socialized heathcare system can also regulate and cap the costs of operation, whereas in a free-market healthcare system, such caps do not exist. There is no reason, for instance, a doctor who has performed 3000 appendectomies and does them like you or I would change CDs in a CD player should be able to continue charging $20,000-$50,000 for it.
Under socialized healthcare with good regulations, the doctors could have some level malpractice protection if each state elected a special board to hear and filter out frivilous lawsuits before they ever made it to court. On the flip side, there would be cost caps for every procedure.
This would completely nullify your aruments about cost. The healthcare system is subject to the same price gouging that's going on in the oil business. Socialized healthcare and cost caps would put a stop to that.
-------------
>> Being Canadian, I think know more than you about socialized healthcare than you ever will and it's not a simple matter for the simple-minded like you. Socialized healthcare is not free. I pay more taxes than anyone here and as I've shown you, it costs more per capita than insurance.
++You're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared
-------------
>> Yes, and keep ignoring large chunks of replies so you don't look like a clueless idiot.
++*insert reply*
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:06:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:05:35 (#)
Ranking: -2
You don't get it Caul, voting doesn't change the leadership in the US. The only way to do that is to follow ETS example and not pay taxes.
GOSH!
===
LOL!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:05:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:53:35 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by marginwalker (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:48:58 (#)
Ranking: 2
ummm yeah Indoninja - almost a feasible argument.
We saw how effective the voting system was when Bush got himself elected (IE. tampered with votes)in the first place.
If you think your "Right to Vote" is going to have significant impact on the Bush Administration, you're the epitome of the walking lobotomies allowing this shit to continue.
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The voter turnout in the the last U.S. election was less than 60%. Do you really it's King Bush who doctored the election or simply that americans were too lazy to get off their fat asses and vote him out?
This kind of idiocy is what gets you idiotic leaders.
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You don't get it Caul, voting doesn't change the leadership in the US. The only way to do that is to follow ETS example and not pay taxes.
GOSH!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 15:01:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:53:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul is right on the univseral health care...plus the fact that doctor's salaries are normally capped in a universal system so there is no motivation for them to receive bonuses based on survival rate or anything else right that. Also, if the salaries are capped, then it would not be as a sought after profession, meaning that you wont have the very best doctors in your local hospital.
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Despite the fact that our doctors might not be the very best, it's been in the news that we still recieve a better treatment than in the U.S (generally, of course) since insurance companies cover less and less.
That's a plus of a universal healthcare system.
A minus is the huge fucking hole it punches in a budget.
The best way is to have both systems. Our to at least impose a small 10-15$ fee at the ER because some people are REALLY abusing the system. There are lonely old people who go there just to socialize and chat with a doctor. I'm not kidding. Homeless people who call the cops "Hey, I'll kill myself" just so they get strapped to a hospital bed, which beats sleeping on an icy pavement. Hell, I myself went to the hospital for the dumbest things. It's out of control.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:53:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by marginwalker (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:48:58 (#)
Ranking: 2
ummm yeah Indoninja - almost a feasible argument.
We saw how effective the voting system was when Bush got himself elected (IE. tampered with votes)in the first place.
If you think your "Right to Vote" is going to have significant impact on the Bush Administration, you're the epitome of the walking lobotomies allowing this shit to continue.
===
The voter turnout in the the last U.S. election was less than 60%. Do you really it's King Bush who doctored the election or simply that americans were too lazy to get off their fat asses and vote him out?
This kind of idiocy is what gets you idiotic leaders.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:53:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Caul is right on the univseral health care...plus the fact that doctor's salaries are normally capped in a universal system so there is no motivation for them to receive bonuses based on survival rate or anything else right that. Also, if the salaries are capped, then it would not be as a sought after profession, meaning that you wont have the very best doctors in your local hospital.
emergency rooms cannot turn down treatment for any patient no matter if they have insurance or not, so it would be smarter for you, if you dont have any healthcare insurance, to go into the ER instead of your local doctor.
however, the military budget one is a tough issue because, as Caul pointed out, it is only around 4% of our GDP...however, it is over half of our budget. the problem now is that finance has surpassed manufacturing as the most profitable industry, so the largest section of the GDP is from the simple repackaging and refinancing of debt, which doesnt aid the economy in any other way.
Submitted by marginwalker (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:48:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-06-19 11:06:51 (#)
Ranking: -2
ETS aren't you the guy who has never voted in his life?
You realize how full of shit that makes you? You have no right to complain about the govt when you haven't even made the most basice simple steps to try and change it.
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ummm yeah Indoninja - almost a feasible argument.
We saw how effective the voting system was when Bush got himself elected (IE. tampered with votes)in the first place.
If you think your "Right to Vote" is going to have significant impact on the Bush Administration, you're the epitome of the walking lobotomies allowing this shit to continue.
You need to educate yourself. You're living in a dictatorship.
Submitted by Molari (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:45:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Haha nicely done, but you'll get in trouble with the govt for this. I don't think its worth it. Especially considering the fact that by the time your $178 actually gets to the government, it will be the next administration, which will most likely (oh god I hope so) the democrats, and they might actually spend money on enhancing the social facilities you already use.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:42:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:41:14 (#)
Ranking: 0
not all of us. actually i told the irs dude that i'm moving to canada...
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lots of americans say "That's it, I'm moving to Canada" but they never actually do it, which is great.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:41:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
not all of us. actually i told the irs dude that i'm moving to canada...
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:27:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
inion, americans keep saying they live in the best country in the whole wide world...quit bitching.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:22:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:53:45 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:50:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
if i'm going to get all or none coverage i want all or none taxes.
===
I think you left the gray zone and stepped into the stupid area, my dear. :-)
But I can understand...it's easy to have extreme opnions on an ETS posts. He's truly a mentalist
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emphasis on the mental? no i'm extreme in my opinions anyway. at least when i'm pissed at something. even then if i calm down long enough to think about it long enough i find that i'm still pretty much a black and white kinda person.
seriously, i don't get benefits from my federal taxes. even as a naval spouse, which federal money goes towards supporting according to them, i couldn't get help. but hey then at least i had healthcare. i don't think i should have to pay for things i can't get. maybe social security fine, i understand, i'll get old because everyone does unless they die. i might need that later. but if i can't get healthcare why should i pay for it? it's ridiculous the the poverty level isn't on a sliding scale based on cost of living statistics for the area you're in. 17k might be great in podunk alabama but it's shit here. and even then if you make less you're fucked because you still don't qualify for anything unless you're under like 6-8k a year. the cap for not paying ss/medicare is $400 annual. who the hell makes that as an adult? if you make twice poverty level here you're still dead broke and not living on your own.
healthcare in america sucks. on top of that, since the bankruptcy laws changed we're even more fucked. most people that file for bankruptcy do so because of medical bills that they couldn't afford. and they will deny care based on ability to pay so if you can't pay then and you can't pay later but you have to you're better off dying because there isn't much of your life left that won't be spent either in the poorhouse or in a hospital bed getting third rate care because of your income.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:21:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:10:44 (#)
Ranking: 0
no one hates you, ets. you simply dont matter that much. or even at all.
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Then pretend I don't exist.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:20:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:04:20 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:44:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
We're the richest country on earth yet we don't have universal healthcare because we'd rather spend over half our money on the fucking military. """
Your military expenditures are only 4% of your GDP. It's really not that much.
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You don't think it's significant that over half of every tax dollar is spent on the military? """
>> Americans pay very little taxes compared to most nations so "spending half of every tax dollar on the military" is all very relative. Perhaps if you read the rest of my reply instead of making selective arguments as usual, you would've caught that, you fucking idiot.
Look at the top 10 countries in military spending and take a good hard look at the gap between the U.S. and the next biggest spender. Hell, you can go back to before Iraq if you want to. Doesn't make much difference. """
>> And look at the top ten GDP and take a good hard look at the gap between the U.S and the second. In a normal world where people don't drop acid on a daily basis, military expenditures are calculated by percentage of GDP. You're not even in the top 25, http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Military_expenditures_Percent_Of_GDP_top25.htm
I don't see an argument here. To me, it's simply ridiculous we can't have universal healthcare if we can have stealth bombers. We can get to the moon and send probes to Mars and set up the most sophisticated worldwide satellite network to watch every square INCH of the globe, yet we can't ensure that our people can go to the doctor without being charged an arm and a leg?"""
>> I shown you how universal healthcare is expensive with actual figures. It represents half of our fucking budget and we pay more taxes than anyone in North America. You seem to think it's free by saying "If we can have bombers, why can't we have hospitals on every street corner " But in reality, universal healthcare is extremely expensive and americans are way to greedy to pay for that.
Being Canadian, you should understand why some of us might want that. Your arguments are tainted by who you're arguing with. """
>> Being Canadian, I think know more than you about socialized healthcare than you ever will and it's not a simple matter for the simple-minded like you. Socialized healthcare is not free. I pay more taxes than anyone here and as I've shown you, it costs more per capita than insurance.
Keep hating me. It works for you. """
>> Yes, and keep ignoring large chunks of replies so you don't look like a clueless idiot.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:10:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
no one hates you, ets. you simply dont matter that much. or even at all.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:07:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MyTeeOne (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:50:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
Wait...on the gift contribution...wtf is "provide a goat"?
Did you buy a goat with your tax money?
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You get to pick whta programs you want your money to go toward. One of the options was a goat, so I bought some villager somewhere a goat, courtesy of George W. Bush. ;)
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:06:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:50:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
i'd rather get taxed heavily and have evidence that my taxes help ME out.
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Exactly. That's all I'm really asking. Well...that, and don't hurt anyone else with them either.
Submitted by mles76 (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:04:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Are you looking for a medal or just a pat on the bacK?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 14:04:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:44:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
We're the richest country on earth yet we don't have universal healthcare because we'd rather spend over half our money on the fucking military. """
Your military expenditures are only 4% of your GDP. It's really not that much.
--------------------
You don't think it's significant that over half of every tax dollar is spent on the military?
Look at the top 10 countries in military spending and take a good hard look at the gap between the U.S. and the next biggest spender. Hell, you can go back to before Iraq if you want to. Doesn't make much difference.
I don't see an argument here. To me, it's simply ridiculous we can't have universal healthcare if we can have stealth bombers. We can get to the moon and send probes to Mars and set up the most sophisticated worldwide satellite network to watch every square INCH of the globe, yet we can't ensure that our people can go to the doctor without being charged an arm and a leg?
Being Canadian, you should understand why some of us might want that. Your arguments are tainted by who you're arguing with.
Keep hating me. It works for you.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:53:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:50:17 (#)
Ranking: 0
if i'm going to get all or none coverage i want all or none taxes.
===
I think you left the gray zone and stepped into the stupid area, my dear. :-)
But I can understand...it's easy to have extreme opnions on an ETS posts. He's truly a mentalist.
Submitted by MyTeeOne (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:50:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Wait...on the gift contribution...wtf is "provide a goat"?
Did you buy a goat with your tax money?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:50:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i'd rather get taxed heavily and have evidence that my taxes help ME out. this is the first time i've ever gotten educational money after 8 years of paying taxes and this is not the first time i've been fucked over because i got strep/tonsilitis and needed an actual antibiotic instead of an overcounter med or a lot of chamomile tea. on top of that, when i was still under my parents' insurances i broke my arm and it still wasn't completely covered and i'm not talking about a $10 copay.
otherwise i'd rather have no social taxes EVER because i have to pay for everything myself.
if i'm going to get all or none coverage i want all or none taxes.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:44:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
We're the richest country on earth yet we don't have universal healthcare because we'd rather spend over half our money on the fucking military. """
Your military expenditures are only 4% of your GDP. It's really not that much.
Perhaps if you weren't all so greedy and paid a little more taxes, you could afford some social advantages like universal healthcare. These things aren't free. The budget for our healthcare in Québec was 55+ billion (and that's not mentionning federal aid which ranks in billions too). That's about 7500$+ per capita, which is actually more expensive than private insurances. And the system is crippling.
The only difference is that you don't have to worry about anything - like insurances not covering you.
Universal healthcare is not an economic choice, it's a social one.
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:20:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There are natural herbal cures for nearly every malaise we experience (hell, where do you think they GET most of the drugs anyway!?). But that would require some inititive and a little self-reliance wouldn't it? Too much to ask for the drive-thru generation.
They have created a culture where people will go to the hospital and trust their doctors blindly and without question for even the slightest of ailments. I wouldn't go to the doctor unless the pain was so bad someone had to drive me, and I HAVE insurance. Problem is, I'm still gonna have to pay on top of whatever my insurance covers.
---
Are you talking about iatrogenesis? Because I think your examples are very very poor.
Submitted by SilvrWolf (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:07:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 for tangible execution of ideas.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 13:02:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Healthcare is a rip off. It is the way it is because lobbyists pad the pockets of our representatives with some of their spoils of robbing people blind. Half the drugs the pharmaceutical companies put out there have worse side effects than the initial condition they're designed to treat, and like a grand drug monopoly, you can't get them legally without going through a 'pusher'.
There are natural herbal cures for nearly every malaise we experience (hell, where do you think they GET most of the drugs anyway!?). But that would require some inititive and a little self-reliance wouldn't it? Too much to ask for the drive-thru generation.
They have created a culture where people will go to the hospital and trust their doctors blindly and without question for even the slightest of ailments. I wouldn't go to the doctor unless the pain was so bad someone had to drive me, and I HAVE insurance. Problem is, I'm still gonna have to pay on top of whatever my insurance covers.
We need socialized healthcare in this country. It's that simple. We're the richest country on earth yet we don't have universal healthcare because we'd rather spend over half our money on the fucking military.
Let's see...get Granny her diabetes medicine or bomb brown people?..... ...... ....
That's a tough one.
Gotta love American priorities, as well as our talent for accepting the status quo and our willingness to take it in the ass on a constant basis.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:34:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:28:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't want a steady supply of welfare. but i'd like that ONE illness trip to the dr i make less than once a year not cost $350 especially when i tell them what's wrong, tell them what to give me, and spend five whole minutes with the asshole that can't look me directly in my eyes. i'm ok with the $100 for a routine yearly physical, i'm not ok with 3-4 times that just so i can get a signature on a piece of paper so i can get medicine for another $75 a pop for the generic brand.
private insurance also costs like $400 a month on the cheap end. i don't have any major illnesses and i rarely get sick. i've never even had the flu. the only thing i ever get is strep throat sometimes tonsilitis. if i only get that and they only give me exactly what i tell them every time i don't see why it's right that i pay a few hundred dollars for a signature and an "ok" from a doc.
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I've been to the hospital about 6-7 times this year.
It cost me about zero dollars. :-D
BUT GODAMN DO I PAY TAXES!
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:30:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
this is my last ever apollo88 review.
The apollo88 character wants you to know how much of a complete and utter pointless waste of space you are.
Oh and for someone who has never voted this grand gesture of withholding your tax (like i'm sure the govt is going to miss the $4.50 you pay in taxes) is ridiculous.
Oh well, roll on tax day.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:28:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't want a steady supply of welfare. but i'd like that ONE illness trip to the dr i make less than once a year not cost $350 especially when i tell them what's wrong, tell them what to give me, and spend five whole minutes with the asshole that can't look me directly in my eyes. i'm ok with the $100 for a routine yearly physical, i'm not ok with 3-4 times that just so i can get a signature on a piece of paper so i can get medicine for another $75 a pop for the generic brand.
private insurance also costs like $400 a month on the cheap end. i don't have any major illnesses and i rarely get sick. i've never even had the flu. the only thing i ever get is strep throat sometimes tonsilitis. if i only get that and they only give me exactly what i tell them every time i don't see why it's right that i pay a few hundred dollars for a signature and an "ok" from a doc.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:16:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:10:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
caul: no i live in ct. guess that put's me under method's "territory" although i think i might move to canada anyway after school's done. christ i'm really starting to hate my country cuz damn they seem to hate me.
ets: no. it's cuz i didn't pay enough medicare/SS tax. apparently even though i can't get health care cuz i don't qualify i still have to pay for it.... assholes.
SS seems so appropriate there.
===
yes, we are a welfare state.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:10:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
caul: no i live in ct. guess that put's me under method's "territory" although i think i might move to canada anyway after school's done. christ i'm really starting to hate my country cuz damn they seem to hate me.
ets: no. it's cuz i didn't pay enough medicare/SS tax. apparently even though i can't get health care cuz i don't qualify i still have to pay for it.... assholes.
SS seems so appropriate there.
Submitted by Professional_Peon (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:06:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
WOOOOOOOOO!!!
I finally got through one of your posts without my eyes bleeding.
+2 for length
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-06-19 12:00:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by resignator (user info) at 2006-06-18 14:53:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
If you tell me you are a Mr. Bungle fan as well I think we will need some DNA tests done.
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I've been listening to them since their first album came out. It's genius music. Either you love it or you hate it. Disco Volante is probably my favorite, because it melds more styles and it's the craziest.
I included it in my "40 Most Essential Albums" list: http://www.ubersite.com/m/77026
Submitted by resignator (user info) at 2006-06-19 11:51:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
...for my long lost brother.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrom