How to Wage a Revolt - - Destabilizing the American Economic and Political Systems Overnight (2428 hits)
Category: PoliticsLabels: ets_sociopolitical_commentary ets_essays
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Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (View user info) at 2006-07-08 01:34:33 EDT
**DISCLAIMER**
The following commentary is purely conjectural in nature and in no way, shape, or form advocates or endorses the carrying out of such plans for the purpose of overthrowing any government or civilian institution. All scenarios are purely hypothetical and/or fictional and merely exercise the First Amendment right of the author to engage in thoughtful discourse with his peers for educational purposes. It is important to examine these things if we are to understand where our vulnerabilities lie and how we might improve them.
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There are many of you out there who hold to the erroneous belief that the United States government and military could never be overthrown. "The military is too strong," you say, "to be crippled in a full-frontal attack on a traditional battlefield, or even in a non-taditional urban warfare scenario." In this assertion you would be correct.
Although there are avenues through which an intrepid collector might obtain decommissioned military armaments through state and military surplus auctions http://www.governmentauctions.org/?ref=google&camp=38&grp=1&keyw=military+surplus+auctions and arms shows http://www.gunshows-usa.com/ enough to thwart an onslaught by small, armed divisions, this author would agree that these tactics are a futile and antiquated exercise. While standing against police and military forces in a compound-style standoff - à la Waco - could see isolated victories, on the whole, a subversive group doesn't stand a chance of winning any measurable ground using such tactics, there exist far more subversive ways to 'defeat the beast'.
While most of the news reports you ever hear feature allegedly planned or actual attacks on civilian targets like mass transit, it is not clear to this author what these people are actually trying to achieve in such attacks. If destabilization is the aim, attacks on the general public are the wrong way to go. In fact, this type of attack only helps the stated enemy by giving them more avenues through which to assume greater powers.
To understand how a limited operation of a few hundred men could possibly throw an entire country into chaos, it is first necessary to understand how that country's system works. First, it would be difficult to argue that modern nations are not built on an run on energy and, as the 2005 hurricane season proved, can be considerably disrupted by a simple disruption of the means and ways by which oil is refined and shipped to consumers. This brings us to the first set of possible targets.
POSSIBLE TARGETS (ENERGY):
*Refineries - A few homemade rockets shot into the heart of American refineries strapped with nitroglycerine should do the trick. Caualties: limited
*Trucking - Trucking companies that transport gasoline to stations throughout the country usually have a place where they park their trucks and it is here where they are most vulnerable. Without an efficient way to get the gas to stations where it can be used, commerce could be slowed greatly or even ground to a halt. (See section on infrastructure for more on this.) Casualties: few to none - depending on the methods
*Trains - Engines have to stop somewhere, and commercial freight trains do not contain passengers. If the engines cannot be crippled, the tracks are certainly vulnerable as are tressel bridges. (See section on infrastructure for more on this.) Casualties: few to none
*Power Stations - Without power, a city cannot carry out commerce and power stations are among the least protected of the obvious targets on this list.
After the energy supply, the next major target would be banks. Since the establishment of the Federal Reserve, banks have been the keepers and issuers of U.S. currency in what amounts to a criminal monopoly and monetary cartel which systematically robs the American taxpayer by creating currency that accrues interest at set federal interest rates. For more on the Federal Reserve and its importance in the economic structure of the country, read this: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10501
An attack on the headquarters of major banking institutions would reek havoc on the international banking community and all major markets would most certainly take an enormous hit as a result. This combined with any sort of concerted attack on the distribution and refinement of oil would compound the problem.
POSSIBLE TARGETS (BANKS and CORPORATE OFFICES):
*Federal Reserve Bank of New York - 33 Liberty Street New York, NY
*Citibank - 399 Park Avenue, New York, NY (Largest corporation in the world.)
*JPMorgan Chase - 270 Park Avenue New York, NY (These guys kinda deserve it since they used a Beatles song in their commercial. This is a big no-no.)
*Bank of America - Bank of America Corporate Center, Charlotte, NC
*HSBC Bank - 140 Broadway in Manhattan
*Goldman Sachs - Lower Manhattan area of New York City at 85 Broad Street
*General Electric - 3135 Easton Turnpike. Fairfield, Connecticut
*SBC/AT&T - San Antonio, Texas
*ExxonMobil - 5959 Las Colinas Boulevard Irving, Texas
Casualties: moderate to minimal if attacked in middle of the night
Now lets move on to individuals... Most people, when asked who is the biggest target for assassination, would probably answer "the president or prime minister of a country". While this may be true in a sense, like a terrorist attack on a soft target, even success isn't going to change very much, and given the security surrounding heads of state, this sort of operation would most certainly amount to suicide. A far more easy and significant target would be the CEOs and owners, movers and shakers of major banks and corporations in some of the oldest and most prominent families in America.
Shortly after 9/11 we all heard about the D.C. sniper(s). They were able to take out targets from the cover of a car trunk across multiple states without detection. A similar operation taking out these CEOs would upset the financial balance of the country, throwing their respective companies into shock and uncertainty, lowering their stock values and hitting the pockets of some of the richest people in the world.
Some would certainly be easier than others, but all would certainly be easier targets than the president of the country. Imagine the havoc if even a handful of the following people were to meet a sudden and shocking end in close succession.
POSSIBLE TARGETS (MEN OF POWER):
*David Rockefeller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller
*Lee Raymond http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Raymond
*Lorenzo Zambrano http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_Zambrano
*Henry Kissinger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger
*David Gergen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gergen
*Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_R._Greenberg
*Jeffrey Immelt, Chairman & CEO of General Electric
*Sandy Weill, Citigroup Chairman and CEO
*Kenneth Lewis, Bank of America Chairman, CEO and President
*Martin J Sullivan, President & CEO, American Intl Group
*Rex Tillerson, CEO of ExxonMobil
*Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase
*Marcel Ospel, UBS Chairman
*Carlos Gutierrez, Chairman, CEO, and President of Kellogg's
*Louis Camilleri, CEO & Chairman Altria Group
*Alan Lafley, CEO Procter & Gamble
*David Lesar, CEO Halliburton
Casualties: non-target collateral damage minimal at worst.
The last large piece of the system puzzle is the country's non-energy related infrastructure - namely, bridges, roads, and communications. Without power or fuel, mass transit will have already been rendered useless, so targeting mass transit is moot. In America, it's the subtle things that count. For instance, when goods come into ports in this country from places like China, they get to their final destinations predominantly on trucks, over interstates.
POSSIBLE TARGETS (INFRASTRUCTURE):
*Bridges and interstate overpasses (Without key bridges, interstate commerce could be ground to a virtual halt in the interior of the country.)
*Telecommunications facilities (Taking out major telecommunications facilities would absolutely cripple commerce. Just ask any company whose phones or internet have been down for any period of time during an average business day. Hundreds or perhaps thousands of small businesses could go bankrupt overnight.)
Casualties: could be minimized by putting up warning signs on roads where bridges have been blown.
The purpose of this exercise was to examine the various ways in which an organized group with access to enough powder, blasting caps, and other readily available materials could bring the country, and perhaps the world, to its knees, with a few directed attacks on non-military targets with little collateral damage. Any one of these methods, alone, could have serious consequences and implications for the economy, requiring a national state of emergency that could cost the government billions. It would be important to remember in the execution of these activities, if indeed it was a supposed revolution, that the common citizenry was not harmed; therefore, it is likely that most of these activities would be executued at night when most people would be sleeping.
The problem is, some of this would be so easy for someone who really wanted to do it. It doesn't matter how much the FBI tries to infiltrate certain groups, it doesn't matter how much the government compromises our freedoms, there are always going to be ways...
For instance, in 2001 I worked for a construction company that was digging a mining shaft. I worked in the office on site and although I had been with the company for less than a year, I was put in full charge of ALL inventory, INCLUDING the powder and caps in the explosives magazines. I knew exactly where the key was kept, and I knew that the office was almost never locked. At any point there was enough blasting powder in those magazines to level an entire city block and, most importantly, there was absolutely NO security on site. It's not hard to see how someone, even if they didn't have the knowledge to make their own dynamite, could sneak onto mining and construction and demolition sites under the cover of darkness, and take pretty much whatever they wanted.
Sleep well, America.
User Reviews
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2006-08-31 10:41:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
CitiGROUP is the largest corporation in the world, not CitiBANK.
And Sandy Weill is no longer Chairman and CEO, as he's sort of retired. "Chairman Emeritus" is his official title now.
Oh, and 399 Park is technically global HQ I think, but the main businesses are scattered throughout the city.
Uhh, that is all. Good plan, I thnk.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2006-08-31 04:42:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Look who's out-thought the American military tactically!
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-12 20:50:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Alright then, cool enough.
But I have to warn you, if I get all "post-partum depression-ish" or anything, I will kill the baby.
I mean, I'll have another one to make up for it and everything, but that first one is dead if I even so much as THINK I've got fat ankles or anything like that.
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2006-07-12 20:15:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You can have mine, Jay.
I quite fancy the idea of you having my anchor baby.
Submitted by Yams (user info) at 2006-07-12 20:14:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ETS, I am surprised you haven't responded to my thought-provoking, hate-mongering reply further down the page.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-12 20:06:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
DAMNIT GENKO YOU AND YOUR LOGIC I HATE YOU!
Can I have you children, or do you want to have mine, instead?
I'm cool either way, really.
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2006-07-12 20:03:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No, Jay, shut the fuck up.
ETS investigates independently. He was there to witness the clean up, perform tests and analyze the wreckage, he has conducted many simulations and analyzed thousands of pages of preexisting structural data, and he also has several degrees in various sciences, enabling him to fully understand all of this data.
I don't know this for a fact, but I assume, because that's what would be required to conduct a truly independent investigation, and that's what he claims to have done, so there.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-12 19:43:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What do you "investigate" Brad?
Did you go to the crash site in Pennsylvania and check it out?
Were you at Ground Zero when they were removing the wreckage?
Were you at the Pentagon when they were cleaning that up?
Or is your investigation opening up your bookmarks, going to sites you know post the newest conspiracy theories daily, and then folling the links they gave you, then every once in a while googling a topic that interests you, so you can read more stuff dregged up by other conspiracy sites you haven't bookmarked yet?
Seriously, I'd love to know what kind of investigating YOU'VE done that can totally punk out the investigation done by 7 DIFFERENT INDEPENDENT ENGINEERING FIRMS.
I'd love to see it.
Why don't you post it?
Let us all see how you've come to your conclusions.
I can't wait.
But what am I saying?
You won't post it.
You never do.
Because you know you're just as much of a follower as everyone else.
The only difference is you follow those who blow the shrill note of anger and distrust.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-12 19:28:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-12 19:13:47 (#)
Ranking: -2
Don't you fucking people know how to use your brains? Just because someone publishes something claiming to debunk something else, doesn't mean they've done it.
Use your goddamn brains and THINK for once instead of repeating some shit you haven't even investigated for your fucking self.
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Shut up you self-satified, ignorant cunt.
I can use the same argument against you, dipshit.
Here, watch.
-
Don't you fucking people know how to use your brains? Just because someone publishes something claiming to debunk a government story, doesn't mean they've done it.
Use your goddamn brains and THINK for once, instead of repeating some shit you haven't even investigated for your fucking self.
(and now my little addition)
And reading reports done by others does NOT count as investigation. Because who's to say that the person you're using as a source isn't doing the same thing you currently are, and then the person HE used as a source was doing the same thing.
So shut the fuck up you sanctimonious cockslob, you've got even less of an idea than the people you try to berate into submission.
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I investigate independently.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-12 19:24:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And I forgot to add this one.
At least the government reports and all of the independent reports were actually able to physically look at the evidence before coming to a conclusion.
Unlike the "engineer" who spent 1 semester in school who screams to the sky that STEAL DOESN"T MELT AT 1800 DEGREES SO HOW COULD THE TOWER FALL????
Somehow he forgets that ALL MATERIALS LOSE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY WITH INCREASING TEMPERATURE and that at 1800 degrees STEEL IS ROUGHLY 15%-20% AS STRONG AS IT IS AT 100 DEGREES
You know, shit like that.
And we can also lump in the dipshits who claims the pentagon was a missle and shit. They've never taken seriously the emission traces from the area, which show JET FUEL and not ROCKET FUEL (and yes, there is a BIG fucking difference chemically) (and no, you can't run a rocket on jet fuel)
or any shit like that.
I trust people who've looked at the evidence first hand, compared to people who trust every grainy image from a camcorder, or a TV camera from 1000 feet away.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-12 19:13:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Don't you fucking people know how to use your brains? Just because someone publishes something claiming to debunk something else, doesn't mean they've done it.
Use your goddamn brains and THINK for once instead of repeating some shit you haven't even investigated for your fucking self.
-----------------------
Shut up you self-satified, ignorant cunt.
I can use the same argument against you, dipshit.
Here, watch.
-
Don't you fucking people know how to use your brains? Just because someone publishes something claiming to debunk a government story, doesn't mean they've done it.
Use your goddamn brains and THINK for once, instead of repeating some shit you haven't even investigated for your fucking self.
(and now my little addition)
And reading reports done by others does NOT count as investigation. Because who's to say that the person you're using as a source isn't doing the same thing you currently are, and then the person HE used as a source was doing the same thing.
So shut the fuck up you sanctimonious cockslob, you've got even less of an idea than the people you try to berate into submission.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-12 18:37:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by beeltea (user info) at 2006-07-12 16:19:25 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-11 08:41:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Secondly, as you probably already well know, I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy. I know it sure as I know that day and night are opposites
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Maybe you should take a look at another opinion.
http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html
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Don't you fucking people know how to use your brains? Just because someone publishes something claiming to debunk something else, doesn't mean they've done it.
Use your goddamn brains and THINK for once instead of repeating some shit you haven't even investigated for your fucking self.
Submitted by beeltea (user info) at 2006-07-12 16:19:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-11 08:41:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Secondly, as you probably already well know, I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy. I know it sure as I know that day and night are opposites
------
Maybe you should take a look at another opinion.
http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html
Submitted by knucklesnelson (user info) at 2006-07-11 21:22:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
the unabomber called, he said he wanted his schtick back
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-11 11:05:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Chazzy (user info) at 2006-07-11 09:36:36 (#)
Ranking: 2
obviously he meant it could not be denied by anyone with more than 2 braincells to rub together
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Staggering wit.
Submitted by Chazzy (user info) at 2006-07-11 09:36:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
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Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-11 08:41:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Secondly, as you probably already well know, I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy. I know it sure as I know that day and night are opposites, so the argument of our innocent bystanders to the escalating Islamic onslaught of cave-dwelling religious fanatics is even less compelling to me.
You know, Zarkawi or whoever can say all they like, but the fact remains, the CIA started Al Qaeda and through the Pakistani INS, they were funded by the CIA. So was the Taliban. What they are and what they have become is a direct or indirect result of our meddling. This cannot be denied.
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Of course it can be denied. I'm denying it right now. See? There it is, denied. Actually, I had no idea that you felt that way or I wouldn't have bothered trying to have a discussion with you. Talking to conspiracy theorists becomes tiresome very quickly. Anyway, good luck with that.
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obviously he meant it could not be denied by anyone with more than 2 braincells to rub together
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-11 08:41:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Secondly, as you probably already well know, I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy. I know it sure as I know that day and night are opposites, so the argument of our innocent bystanders to the escalating Islamic onslaught of cave-dwelling religious fanatics is even less compelling to me.
You know, Zarkawi or whoever can say all they like, but the fact remains, the CIA started Al Qaeda and through the Pakistani INS, they were funded by the CIA. So was the Taliban. What they are and what they have become is a direct or indirect result of our meddling. This cannot be denied.
------------------
Of course it can be denied. I'm denying it right now. See? There it is, denied. Actually, I had no idea that you felt that way or I wouldn't have bothered trying to have a discussion with you. Talking to conspiracy theorists becomes tiresome very quickly. Anyway, good luck with that.
Submitted by Chazzy (user info) at 2006-07-11 06:51:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS, as 'they' say, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"..
As much as you try to tell the ignorant, they won't listen, they're too afraid to learn the truth. The ignorance I've seen you encounter is almost (but not entirely) unbelievable. The majority of people won't open their minds momentarily just to entertain the idea, which, when you look at the irrefutable evidence, is obviously the reality of the situation.
The only real conspiracy is the lies we're being told by the US government.
Keep on truckin!
Submitted by dr_weazel (user info) at 2006-07-10 18:56:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
WTF? I'M NOT READING ALL THAT!
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 17:18:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Tracer0351 (user info) at 2006-07-10 17:05:00 (#)
Ranking: -2
Best bet to really screw things up? get elected to public office and turn down bribes!
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"Get assassinated," you mean.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 17:15:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-10 16:03:14 (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:49:38 (#)
Ranking: 0
What we have to understand is that only by quelling the fear and anxiety in ourselves will we quell that of our enemies. We stop fucking with them and they'll stop fucking with us. It's that fucking simple. But, it's not going to happen.
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In addition... I think this is the heart of our disagreement right here. The sad fact is that "they" are not fucking with us because we are fucking with them. Sure, we have helped to ESCALATE the fighting, but we did NOT start it, no matter what you or The New York Post say. "They" are fucking with us because we are (but not limited to) the following:
1) Christians
2) Jews
3) Capitalists
4) Non-Muslims
If you think it's not that simple, you are wrong. Dead wrong. The self-proclaimed goal of (I can't remember if it was Zawahiri or Zarqaui) is to have a Muslim state from Indonesia to the tip of Spain. "They" will kill or convert everyone in their path, given time enough, and the surest road to victory for "them" is to have people in every country parroting their twisted ideals and shouting about how unfair and heavy-handed the people who are trying to stop their literal reign of terror are.
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell
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Mr. FartSmeller, sir, with all due respect, this is NOT a matter of us escalating something that THEY started. As much as you might like to believe that, it's just bad history. This shit has been going on for thousands of years, and recently, in the last 100 years or so, basically since WWI, we have found another reason besides religion to fight with them - black gold, Texas Tea.
Starting with the Orient Express and the subsequent British troops in Iraq during WWI, which was nothing more than a manufactured war used to excuse power-grabs of resources, our relationship with the Middle East has been one long string of exploitation and occupation.
Got to this site and scroll down to the timeline at the bottom: http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm It's too long to be reprinted here in reviews. That will give you an idea of the kind of thing we're talking about here. I think at this point it should go without saying, but seeing as some people still don't seem to get it, a little history lesson could be in order. And not the watered down history you learned in high school either. Read a little and learn.
Secondly, as you probably already well know, I believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy. I know it sure as I know that day and night are opposites, so the argument of our innocent bystanders to the escalating Islamic onslaught of cave-dwelling religious fanatics is even less compelling to me.
You know, Zarkawi or whoever can say all they like, but the fact remains, the CIA started Al Qaeda and through the Pakistani INS, they were funded by the CIA. So was the Taliban. What they are and what they have become is a direct or indirect result of our meddling. This cannot be denied.
Submitted by Tracer0351 (user info) at 2006-07-10 17:05:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
rockets into refieries? most U.S. fuel isn't even refined in the U.S.
Trucking termanals? the trucking fleet is so huge that even if you hit several, it would still only be a drop in the bucket. Trains can just reroute, not that much is carried that way anymore. Taking out bridges on roads would need a massive corordinated effort to prevent simple rerouting, and power stations are on grids, If one goes down, others pick up the slack, unless someone is asleep at the switch and the whole North East goes black... Same problem with targeting banks and CEO, etc...
The U.S. economy is so spread out, and so redundent that to do anything more then scare people and raise prices a bit would require almost as much manpower, and certainly more orginization skills, then armed revolt. Best bet to really screw things up? get elected to public office and turn down bribes!
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 16:49:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by PerkMan (user info) at 2006-07-10 15:58:17 (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS we can't just overthrow the goverment and rebuild another.
Do you know how to shit our economy and our way of living would go?
Our goverment is in place to keep america rich, and powerful. That is the truth. and they do what they need to do.
All the things they do aren't right and that is true. But we just can't over throw the goverment. who the fuck would run the newly formed one?
You don't think that differn't groups would try and get the upper hand and control shit?
This shit your talking about would go down just like the movie/book "Animal farm'. The pig would try and take control and then we would all break off into factions. and I would say that some states would try and state that they wish to be their own soverign nations and countries and such.
Basically "IT"S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN". All we can hope to do is change the people in power by elections, demonstrations, and the like. We have to have people do it through the courts, and the declaratoin of independce. We have to do it that way.
Oh yeah I watched loose change. The goverment did that shit.
After I watched that I watched the movie Flight 93. Complete and utter bullshit.
yeah fucking 4 guys with box cutters are going to take over an entire plan. With 20-25 men on board from age 18-40 yeah right.
The goverment did that shit.
-----------------------------
I appreciate your concerns and comments.
I'll say again up front. I am NOT advocating an overthrow of the government. Everyone hear that? Stupidhead Steve, did you hear that!?
That being said, IF a group were to stage these attacks. The U.S. system would basically collapse under its own weight. Right now, it's teetering under the inertia of its own fat as it is. This would be just the kind of straw that would break the camel's back.
What would happen, you ask? It would probably go down just like I stated below: http://www.ubersite.com/m/90197#2054359
Other than that, I'd rather not talk too much about consequences as I feel it might be difficult for some to separate the fact that I'm not advocating a revolution, but fully understand the reasons we need one.
Submitted by livEvil (user info) at 2006-07-10 16:42:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Pinky: "so brain, what are we going to be doing today?"
brain: "the same thing we do everyday, pinky. we're gonna take over the world"
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-10 16:03:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:49:38 (#)
Ranking: 0
What we have to understand is that only by quelling the fear and anxiety in ourselves will we quell that of our enemies. We stop fucking with them and they'll stop fucking with us. It's that fucking simple. But, it's not going to happen.
-------------------------
In addition... I think this is the heart of our disagreement right here. The sad fact is that "they" are not fucking with us because we are fucking with them. Sure, we have helped to ESCALATE the fighting, but we did NOT start it, no matter what you or The New York Post say. "They" are fucking with us because we are (but not limited to) the following:
1) Christians
2) Jews
3) Capitalists
4) Non-Muslims
If you think it's not that simple, you are wrong. Dead wrong. The self-proclaimed goal of (I can't remember if it was Zawahiri or Zarqaui) is to have a Muslim state from Indonesia to the tip of Spain. "They" will kill or convert everyone in their path, given time enough, and the surest road to victory for "them" is to have people in every country parroting their twisted ideals and shouting about how unfair and heavy-handed the people who are trying to stop their literal reign of terror are.
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell
Submitted by PerkMan (user info) at 2006-07-10 15:58:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS we can't just overthrow the goverment and rebuild another.
Do you know how to shit our economy and our way of living would go?
Our goverment is in place to keep america rich, and powerful. That is the truth. and they do what they need to do.
All the things they do aren't right and that is true. But we just can't over throw the goverment. who the fuck would run the newly formed one?
You don't think that differn't groups would try and get the upper hand and control shit?
This shit your talking about would go down just like the movie/book "Animal farm'. The pig would try and take control and then we would all break off into factions. and I would say that some states would try and state that they wish to be their own soverign nations and countries and such.
Basically "IT"S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN". All we can hope to do is change the people in power by elections, demonstrations, and the like. We have to have people do it through the courts, and the declaratoin of independce. We have to do it that way.
Oh yeah I watched loose change. The goverment did that shit.
After I watched that I watched the movie Flight 93. Complete and utter bullshit.
yeah fucking 4 guys with box cutters are going to take over an entire plan. With 20-25 men on board from age 18-40 yeah right.
The goverment did that shit.
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-10 15:32:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I think you OVERestimate the U.S. military, for a couple reasons...
1: If the U.S. military was so almighty, why wasn't 9/11 thwarted? Why weren't the planes that hit the second tower and the Pentagon shot down? It's the PENTAGON, for Christ's sake. This is the central nervous system, the medulla oblongata of the military, if you will, and yet a passenger plane was allowed to fly 45 minutes off course and crash into supposedly the most secure building under the most secure airspace in the world? If that's the measure of what a rebellion would be up against, it's paltry at best.
2: Iraq. The National Guard is in Iraq. The Army is in Iraq. We couldn't even respond properly after a hurricane, where the site of the disaster was predictable by nearly a week! How the hell are they gonna patrol the country's millions of square miles of open roads and open country while half of their forces are overseas? Even if they were all here, short of Germany-style checkpoints that make protecting our way of life pointless anyway, there is no way they could do much to stop this kind of thing.
------------------------
1: ETS, I think you're comparing apples to oranges with this comment. Those are great questions, but you have to realize that 9/11 was an intellegence failure combined with an inappropriate response by people in air traffic control and military air response. Basically, it was the modern equivalent of getting caught with your pants down and not having the balls to order yourself to pull them back up. Stupid mistake? Yes. But it was not a mistake made by the same people and/or organizations that would come into play if the types of things you refer to were to happen.
2: You're right on there, and I'm not going to assume you're so ignorant that I could get away with saying that the aftermath of Katrina was JUST the FEMA director's fault (though it was, partially). It's just not true. The Katrina Debacle was a huge gross failure on the part of that agency, but I will say that they, too, would not be involved if the types of things happened that you refer to.
In any event, the US is simply too big a place for the military to be everywhere in it all at once. But, never underestimate a bunch of local yokels and their deer rifles when the shit hits the fan!
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:49:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:15:31 (#)
Ranking: 1
This makes you think, definitely. But, I have to disagree. I served in the US Navy for six years, and I'm fairly well-acquainted with the length of the American military arm. And let me tell you, it is extensive. Let me add that discounting the forces you KNOW about in the US military, there are thousands of special ops detachments that nobody without a clearance knows even exist.
Moving on, I want to say that while the infrastructure you mentioned would be "easily" crippled, you have to remember that once these things started happening, it wouldn't be the local podunk sherrif that got called in to fix things, it would be the National Guard, et al. And the National Guard does NOT rely on said infrastructure like power plants and roads to get the job done.
Anyway, I like your post, but I think you underestimate the power of the US Military to quell disturbances. Maybe you're using Iraq as a benchmark... HA!
---------------------
I think you OVERestimate the U.S. military, for a couple reasons...
1: If the U.S. military was so almighty, why wasn't 9/11 thwarted? Why weren't the planes that hit the second tower and the Pentagon shot down? It's the PENTAGON, for Christ's sake. This is the central nervous system, the medulla oblongata of the military, if you will, and yet a passenger plane was allowed to fly 45 minutes off course and crash into supposedly the most secure building under the most secure airspace in the world? If that's the measure of what a rebellion would be up against, it's paltry at best.
2: Iraq. The National Guard is in Iraq. The Army is in Iraq. We couldn't even respond properly after a hurricane, where the site of the disaster was predictable by nearly a week! How the hell are they gonna patrol the country's millions of square miles of open roads and open country while half of their forces are overseas? Even if they were all here, short of Germany-style checkpoints that make protecting our way of life pointless anyway, there is no way they could do much to stop this kind of thing.
What we have to understand is that only by quelling the fear and anxiety in ourselves will we quell that of our enemies. We stop fucking with them and they'll stop fucking with us. It's that fucking simple. But, it's not going to happen.
What WILL happen is:
- Our leaders will piss more and more people off overseas who will attack and treaten us both at home and abraod.
- In turn, our leaders will strip more and more of our rights away in the proposed effort to 'protect' the country and 'protect' those very freedoms.
- We will end up in a situation where the military acts as civilian police even in times of peace.
- There will be random searches at checkpoints.
- There will be challenges to the constitutionality of such activities.
- The constitution will be amended to account for them.
- There will be outcry from the media who seeks to expose the government's lie to the people. (This is already happening to the New York Times and it's criticism of government spying.)
- The government will make this kind of criticism illegal in the name of national security.
- This will be challenged in the supreme court.
- Again, the constitution will have to be amended..stripping yet more rights of free speech and freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures.
- The people will grow tired of all this infringement on their rights and liberties, and a group of people will rise up and strike back to counter this force. At the point when we've turned into a suppressive police state and people are fed up with it, a group wouldn't have much trouble inspiring all-out revolt by displaying a few targeted successes.
- Of course, the government couldn't allow the nation to SEE such successes, so they'd take total control of the media, thus instituting a campaign of disinformation, misdirection, and propaganda sprinkled with bread and circus.
Voila!
Welcome to the Socialist Republic States of America.
Everything is fluid...ESPECIALLY governments. Everything works in cycles, and no one is immune from the tides of change, even the most powerful nation on earth...especially the most powerful nation on earth.
Submitted by GDR (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:31:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I can't help but link whore my american flag burning post!
http://www.ubersite.com/m/89754
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:15:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
This makes you think, definitely. But, I have to disagree. I served in the US Navy for six years, and I'm fairly well-acquainted with the length of the American military arm. And let me tell you, it is extensive. Let me add that discounting the forces you KNOW about in the US military, there are thousands of special ops detachments that nobody without a clearance knows even exist.
Moving on, I want to say that while the infrastructure you mentioned would be "easily" crippled, you have to remember that once these things started happening, it wouldn't be the local podunk sherrif that got called in to fix things, it would be the National Guard, et al. And the National Guard does NOT rely on said infrastructure like power plants and roads to get the job done.
Anyway, I like your post, but I think you underestimate the power of the US Military to quell disturbances. Maybe you're using Iraq as a benchmark... HA!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:08:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:02:21 (#)
Ranking: 0
I addressed that several times below. This isn't a plan or a call to arms. It's an exercise in assessment. It's a discussion of our nation's vulnerabilities to expose the illusion and the lie of rampant terrorism, for one. For if a 'terrorist' or a 'terrorist group' really wanted to harm America, they would take something resembling the outline above instead of attacking soft targets, which affect absolutely nothing.
----------------------------------------------
Really?
Why didn't the Checheyan Rebels do stuff like this to Russia?
Why didn't the Basque sepratists do it to Spain?
Why didn't the IRA do it to England?
You think every single terrorist group in the world is a part of some propoganda machine to help keep certain groups in power? Terrorists don't do this because they aren't as stupid as you.
It would not work.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-10 13:02:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jade_digitalmedia (user info) at 2006-07-10 12:33:03 (#)
Ranking: 1
I think this was well written, and has a very hard hitting, eye opening perspective. However, a lot of the companies listed, if blown to smithereens, would fuck up my day. Can I ask if this is something that you are hoping to have executed or are you just throwing it out there to show everyone how easy it would be to do?
---------------
I addressed that several times below. This isn't a plan or a call to arms. It's an exercise in assessment. It's a discussion of our nation's vulnerabilities to expose the illusion and the lie of rampant terrorism, for one. For if a 'terrorist' or a 'terrorist group' really wanted to harm America, they would take something resembling the outline above instead of attacking soft targets, which affect absolutely nothing.
Submitted by Snowynorth (user info) at 2006-07-10 12:20:40 (#)
Ranking: -2
I certainly hope this was a joke. As well written as it was, it a complete load of horseshit. With number of people and the technology needed to do what you propose in one night, much less one month or one year, you might as well take on the U.S Army.
-------------------
[You wouldn't do it in one night, I suspect. You'd probably perform certain operations simultaneously with cells stationed throughout the country, but the whole of the operation would be endless until the desired result was reached, or death or arrest of cell members.]
-------------------
There are 149 oil refineries in America producing some 16 million barrels of oil. Obviously you'd target the biggest, the Exxon refirenry in Baytown Texas, however with your homemade missles you'd miss by several kilometres and pretty much do nothing. You ever wonder why the Palestinians fire so many rockets into Isreal but rarely hit anything? The ability to hit anything with an unguided rocket from even a short distance, even 5km, is incredibily lucky. You'd be better of with mortars but even then after you first shot, you'd be surrounded by security forces... it's just not gonna happen.
-------------------
[As you saw in Katrina, less than 5% of capacity was affected, yet the ripple effects shook the world markets for months. We are still feeling the aftershocks in some ways, and as you've undoubtedly noticed, gasoline prices pretty much stayed up after that. When I said "rockets", I meant any projectile capable of clearing the security fences. I didn't say it would be easy. I said it was possible.]
-------------------
As for the transportation industry the only vulnerable part would probably be the train system, even then much of the cargo could be diverted. The trucking industry is far to big to be taken down and alot of cargo is still transported by boat up and down the Mississippi.
-------------------
[You say the only vulnerable part of the transportation system are trains? They are the sitting ducks that scream "pick me! pick me!" with their thousands of miles of unprotected tracks and unprotected bridges, but the interstate highways are just as exposed. Look at overpasses, for instance. Pick a stretch of interstate between two major cities, or between major port offloading cities and the interior of the country. Now imagine someone blew up 3 to 5 overpasses along the way, leaving impassable stretches and rubble in the road. How long would it take crews to repair those bridges and restore these vital arteries? One only need to look at our own military operations when we enter a country to see what affect this has. When supplies are affected, everything is.]
-------------------
As for power plants, well again best of luck, 20% of U.S power is generated by Nuclear facilities and best of luck getting anywhere near them. Again your rockets are pretty much useless so the only way to do any real damage is to get close, and even Hydro plants have some form of security that would prevent you from doing that. Much of the eastern seaboard's power is generated in Canada, so that's probably your best bet to do any sort of damage. But about 3 years ago that went down and pretty much nothing happened, everyone remained calm and there was very little crime, looting or rioting of any sort.
-------------------
[No, no, no.... Actually, most of the country's energy comes from coal-fired plants, but that's beside the point. You don't have to attack a power plant itself to cut off power. A force seeking to disrupt power would find it far easier to attack power stations and sub-stations... You've seen them. These are the groups of towers with all the huge transformers and lines going out in all directions. Although they are fenced in, the are almost NEVER guarded.]
-------------------
Your assasination targets? All these major companies are ran by a board of directors, the individual CEO's still run the business by the board makes the decision. Nothing would happen if any or even all those people died. Someone else would just be selected to replace them.
-------------------
[Again, let me reiterate, they are not 'targets'. They are what I surmise might constitute possible targets from research. That being said, most of the CEOs on the lists are also on the board of directors as chairman, and many are also president of their respective companies.]
-------------------
I could go on but it's pretty pointless. You and people like you are going to believe that this will work because you've watched to many movies, and hey in the movies the good guys always win. Wake up this is the real world, blowing shit up and killing people won't make the rest of the country suddenly wake up and support your cause. You'd just to more harm then good.
-------------------
[I didn't say anything about this being about rallying support. I cannot speculate on a group's specific motives, but I suspect that at the point at which they began carrying out such plans, the idea of rallying support wouldn't even register. At that point, the war would be on. And if you don't think it would be effective in significantly disrupting commerce and pushing the country into a spiral pattern, I guess we wouldn't know for sure until it happened, but I think you're dead wrong.]
Submitted by jade_digitalmedia (user info) at 2006-07-10 12:33:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I think this was well written, and has a very hard hitting, eye opening perspective. However, a lot of the companies listed, if blown to smithereens, would fuck up my day. Can I ask if this is something that you are hoping to have executed or are you just throwing it out there to show everyone how easy it would be to do?
Submitted by Snowynorth (user info) at 2006-07-10 12:20:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I certainly hope this was a joke. As well written as it was, it a complete load of horseshit. With number of people and the technology needed to do what you propose in one night, much less one month or one year, you might as well take on the U.S Army.
There are 149 oil refineries in America producing some 16 million barrels of oil. Obviously you'd target the biggest, the Exxon refirenry in Baytown Texas, however with your homemade missles you'd miss by several kilometres and pretty much do nothing. You ever wonder why the Palestinians fire so many rockets into Isreal but rarely hit anything? The ability to hit anything with an unguided rocket from even a short distance, even 5km, is incredibily lucky. You'd be better of with mortars but even then after you first shot, you'd be surrounded by security forces... it's just not gonna happen.
As for the transportation industry the only vulnerable part would probably be the train system, even then much of the cargo could be diverted. The trucking industry is far to big to be taken down and alot of cargo is still transported by boat up and down the Mississippi.
As for power plants, well again best of luck, 20% of U.S power is generated by Nuclear facilities and best of luck getting anywhere near them. Again your rockets are pretty much useless so the only way to do any real damage is to get close, and even Hydro plants have some form of security that would prevent you from doing that. Much of the eastern seaboard's power is generated in Canada, so that's probably your best bet to do any sort of damage. But about 3 years ago that went down and pretty much nothing happened, everyone remained calm and there was very little crime, looting or rioting of any sort.
Your assasination targets? All these major companies are ran by a board of directors, the individual CEO's still run the business by the board makes the decision. Nothing would happen if any or even all those people died. Someone else would just be selected to replace them.
I could go on but it's pretty pointless. You and people like you are going to believe that this will work because you've watched to many movies, and hey in the movies the good guys always win. Wake up this is the real world, blowing shit up and killing people won't make the rest of the country suddenly wake up and support your cause. You'd just to more harm then good.
Submitted by Aeneas (user info) at 2006-07-10 10:28:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
A very interesting read
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2006-07-10 10:03:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Just drop my assignment in the usual locker.
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2006-07-10 09:41:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-10 09:02:07 (#)
Ranking: -2
Capn, what point makes you think I'm rating the poster, not the post?
I'm insulting his ideas, and I'm insulting the post, and yes, I think he's a douche, but anyone writes this, and I'd be running it into the ground just the same.
------------------------------------------------------------
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....*cough*
Yeah, right. You write this: http://www.ubersite.com/m/90197#2053102
and expect me to believe you're NOT rating the poster?
Fact of the matter is, I think copsucker hit the nail on the head: http://www.ubersite.com/m/90197#2053078
And you just don't want to admit it.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-10 09:02:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Capn, what point makes you think I'm rating the poster, not the post?
I'm insulting his ideas, and I'm insulting the post, and yes, I think he's a douche, but anyone writes this, and I'd be running it into the ground just the same.
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2006-07-10 08:45:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Christ on a pogo stick, don't you guys ever let bygones be bygones?!
Give the guy a break.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2006-07-10 08:38:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't deserve to have my rating on this post, let's get rid of that
Submitted by mockidol (user info) at 2006-07-09 13:20:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
So, what would be the point?
We just throw a nut like you in as president or something?
How about you go ruin another Nirvana album.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-09 05:26:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Notice how ETS latches onto anyone who shows even a glimmer of acceptance, while he either ignores or ***tries*** to embarass anyone who thinks differently?
Know why?
He needs all the support he can get, because it's obvious to anyone who's read more than one post that he's a total whackjob who needs to lay off the drugs and get a real life.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-09 05:04:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by copsucker (user info) at 2006-07-09 04:01:03 (#)
Ranking: 2
I think we need to look at this piece from two perspectives.
AS A PIECE OF WRITING, it was well-executed. Its structure is logical, its coverage is complete and detailed, in short, irrespective of the opinions expressed, they were well-defined and defended.
As I look at THE INTERCHANGE OF IDEAS AND OPINIONS between writer and reader, I am struck by the marked contrast between ETS's fact-based, emotionally-even rebuttals and the halting, apopleptic rants of some. Profanity and ad hominem statements (attacking the person rather than the argument, i.e.smoke screens of vilification) don't buttress arguments well.
Since I joined this site, ETS has been "a hiss and a by-word." This is my first scrutiny of an ETS post; I enjoyed the writing and the repartee.
-------------
...and out of the void came a single ray of light.
Thank you, sir. Just...thank you.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-09 04:56:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Sorry berg, you'd have to read a lot of ETS posting and history to follow where this all comes from.
Short hairs of the story is ETS and I don't think the same things, and after many small bitchfests where he decided it would be a nifty thing to threaten death upon me and a few others for saying we didn't believe him, I decided to be openly honest with him on his posts about what I think.
And I think that ETS can not go a single day without thinking that the government is out to kill him, even though they could care less about his pathetic ass.
He also thinks that everything bad and evil in the world is tied to the US Government, and will go to any lengths searching out "evidence" and "Truths" that are far more biased than anything FOX News has ever put on the TV screen. He also thinks "conspiracy experts" are singular men who stand up in the face of government tyranny and speak the truth, not realizing that if those singular individuals were even CLOSE to right, they'd be dead before they could expose it, anyway.
I also can not stand that he believes himself to be a self-appointed truth teller, trying to spread the word about the evil government, and when ANYONE poses ANY sort of disagreement, he launches into straight up "holy shit you're a madman" mode and tries to verbally beat down any voice of dissent, yet he still claims he's a protector of the First Amendment.
I would go on, but Christ, the cock-smoker annoys me. He was obviously intellegent before he started doing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many drugs, and it kills me to see intellect like that go to waste on crackpot ideas like George HW Bush being a part of the JFK assasination, even though at the time he was a 40 year old business exec, and wouldn't be in Congress for another 4 years, and wouldn't be the director of the CIA for 13 more after THAT.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-09 04:47:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Look.
Mr. Greening. I think yer an intelligent, affable kid- but this hate-on you have for Mr. Tooth is getting downright creepy. Did you guys date at some point?
As for you Mr. Tooth- don't you think the time you spend obsessing over these sorts of things could be better spent coming up with something PROACTIVE and HELPFUL instead of consistently barfing out verbose diatribes aimed to scare the shit out of everyone?
How about brainstorming some solutions that DON'T include assasinations and bombings?
Maybe give that a whirl.
I know you think that these displays of digital angst are somehow a valid means by which to educate and motivate the folks* who most intelligent free-thinking people would emphatically agree need both education AND motivation
BUT
why can't you see that your tactics basically serve to marginalize the very important issues you are so desperate to highlight?
r.
* appropriately dubbed "sheeple"- although I think more accurately described as citizens who are far too busy trying to earn a living, pay rent/mortgage, and raise/feed/educate kids to generally give a shit about anything that doesn't directly influence them unless it just happens to occur during a commercial break.
Submitted by William_Q_Percy (user info) at 2006-07-09 04:22:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
ETS, the Tamiflu facts are what they are.
As a matter of fact, your constitution allows for assembly of groups... why not organize a group that is fed up with your government and take them over?
My only concern is that if you are their leader, you would have a lower approval rating than george bush does right now.
...Do the polls go as low as -2?
Submitted by copsucker (user info) at 2006-07-09 04:01:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think we need to look at this piece from two perspectives.
AS A PIECE OF WRITING, it was well-executed. Its structure is logical, its coverage is complete and detailed, in short, irrespective of the opinions expressed, they were well-defined and defended.
As I look at THE INTERCHANGE OF IDEAS AND OPINIONS between writer and reader, I am struck by the marked contrast between ETS's fact-based, emotionally-even rebuttals and the halting, apopleptic rants of some. Profanity and ad hominem statements (attacking the person rather than the argument, i.e.smoke screens of vilification) don't buttress arguments well.
Since I joined this site, ETS has been "a hiss and a by-word." This is my first scrutiny of an ETS post; I enjoyed the writing and the repartee.
Submitted by FunnyAsCancer (user info) at 2006-07-09 03:53:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"Casualties: non-target collateral damage minimal at worst."
Just to drive the point home, you're indirectly advocating killing people here. That's what collateral damage refers to, unnecessary death and destruction.
Oh, but wait, "minimal at worst." I really hope you mean that in the "a couple might die, it's a tragedy" way, and not the "maximum at best" sort of way. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. So innocents might get hurt. I guess in a sense, that's kinda like going to war, and killing dozens of innocent civilians a day, just to get to one guy.
Congratulations, ETS, you've become the US' position on Iraq. Ain't that ironic?
And jay fucking nailed it. FUCKING NAILED IT.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-09 03:28:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
POSSIBLE?
Dude, a threat is a threat, whether it be conjecture or not.
I could say "I wonder what it would be like to kill the President?", and if I said that anywhere near a Secret Service agent, trust me, Slick, I'd be beaten to rotten hell and charged with conspiracy to threaten the President.
You think the judge would take a defense of "Man, it was just CONJECTURE."???
Seriously?
Dense.
As.
Stone.
And I highly doubt this... A thought out, expanded, explained plan of action with targets and modes of removal... Could be seen as conjecture, because you said they were POSSIBLE targets.
Would that mean that the Al Queda operatives that helped plan 9/11 should be exonerated from being charged with attempted destruction of the Capitol, because it was only a POSSIBLE target that was never taken out?
Oh wait, you believe the government caused 9/11.
Nevermind.
But Brad, I'm sure that before the drugs wiped your sanity that you were a somewhat smart man.
Just an assumption.
So, with that, I would assume you know the theory of Occam's Razor.
You have a situation.
Two explainations.
Or more than two, really. You could have hundreds.
When push comes to shove, and no explainations can be proven without a shadow of a doubt, the principal of Occam's Razor states that the simplest answer is more than likely the correct answer.
Now, let me put this into perspective concerning this post.
Say the FBI *were* tipped off to this.
They see this post, and it's advocation and planning of destroying the government and the infrastructure of America.
And they are faced with two possible explainations.
Both explainations start the same. It is that someone in Indiana took the amazingly long time to work out the names and positions and histories of targets for removal. He then painstakingly found ways t remove each target from the land of the living. He has in the past advocated overthrowing the government, threatened Congressmen via mail and electronic mail, and has shown himself to be firmly against the power structure of the country by *gasp* withholding $182 in federal taxes.
Now, here is where the explainations diverge, Brad.
A) In one explaination, this man is an obvious extremist who could in the future be a danger to the country in general and to the American public who work for our government in specific.
B) The other is that everything he has ever said and written and done against the government was simply theoretical, and that he is an upstanding member of his society who is simply trying to raise the awareness of the masses by showing them how possible and likely it would be for a terrorist to take out the governing body and leaders of infrastructure in this country.
Again, without concrete evidence one way or the other, Federal agencies do tend to follow the law of Occam's Razor. The most simple explaination is more often than not the correct explaination.
And the most simple explaination of the two, concerning this post, and previous posts, is A.
So, defend this as "theoretical" or "hypothetical" all you want, Brad.
But it wouldn't help you if someone DID send this to the FBI tipline.
Dumbass.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-07-09 02:40:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-09 01:56:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3776252111399780043&q=bush+nazis
That's not a 'hit list'. It's simply a list, as it says, of "possible targets". "POSSIBLE" being the key word there. In other words, they are just examples of the kind of people who would be less difficult to assassinate than a president, but have a similar level of impact. It's meant to draw your attention to the reality that corporations are in control of our country, not politicians, and the next revolution, if one comes, will be a war against these corporations and not the government, who now simply acts as their puppet.
Ask yourselves seriously... What are 120 of the world's most powerful bankers, corporate heads, politicians, and MEDIA JOURNALISTS doing every year at the Bilderberg meetings. Look at their guest lists and ask yourselves why that's not front page of every fucking newspaper.
------------------------------
holy mother. you really don't understand anything, do you. i mean, you really don't get life. right?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-09 02:12:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8023426016244845619&q=tool+vicarious
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-09 02:06:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16972
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-09 01:56:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3776252111399780043&q=bush+nazis
That's not a 'hit list'. It's simply a list, as it says, of "possible targets". "POSSIBLE" being the key word there. In other words, they are just examples of the kind of people who would be less difficult to assassinate than a president, but have a similar level of impact. It's meant to draw your attention to the reality that corporations are in control of our country, not politicians, and the next revolution, if one comes, will be a war against these corporations and not the government, who now simply acts as their puppet.
Ask yourselves seriously... What are 120 of the world's most powerful bankers, corporate heads, politicians, and MEDIA JOURNALISTS doing every year at the Bilderberg meetings. Look at their guest lists and ask yourselves why that's not front page of every fucking newspaper.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-09 01:46:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Ya know, it's funny.
It really is.
ETS actually thinks the disclaimer could save him.
"Dude, I know I set out ther perfect plot to kill the President. I know I took hours upon hour upon hours to build this plan up and solve the problems in executing it. I know I wrote it down and published it for everyone to see and all."
"But still, I don't BELIEVE it or anything, so I'm in the clear."
Dipshit...
Submitted by FunnyAsCancer (user info) at 2006-07-09 01:43:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I get it. The government is doing some fucked-up shit. But logically, you're doing it too.
"Free Expression," "understanding the system," call it whatever you want. You made a fucking hit list. You're retarded. End of story.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-09 01:40:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7374585792978336967
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-09 01:33:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FunnyAsCancer (user info) at 2006-07-08 23:30:38 (#)
Ranking: -2
It doesn't matter if Fight Club did this shit, too, the fact of the matter is, you just plotted crimes against America, published them, and said "this will effectively cripple America."
God, what part of your fucked up little brain makes you think that's ok? To give people the idea that shooting famous people is a good idea, and blowing up essential public works will make society better?
It's real basic, numbskull. People are gullible idiots. You tell them things, AND SOME OF THEM WILL DO IT. If any one of those people gets assassinated, you think they're not gonna investigate you in some way? Trust me, they've found this shit by now.
There's a line between eccentric popularity, and just plain electro-retardedness, and you crossed it. No, I take that back, even electro knows not to do this kinda shit.
-----------------------
There is nothing in this hypothetical scenario that you haven't seen 100 times on primetime TV with shows like "24" or in movies like "Fight Club". In fact, I'm more than confident that's all my court defence would need to consist of.
I have broken no laws here and have not advocated or called for any 'terrorist' act whatsoever. I am merely outlining a possible way in which a group might wage an effective attack against what some of you have described to me erroneously as an impervious system.
All that being said, if you were to ask me if there were situations where such acts might be warranted, I'd say yes. I happen to think this is important information to keep in mind if and when the government oversteps its bounds and denies our rights as citizens of this country...such as, I don't know, our right to a jury trial, to be read our miranda rights by a POLICE OFFICER and not simply be detained indefinitely by a fucking SOLDIER (posse comitatus), our right to keep and bear arms, right to peaceably protest, and our right to engage in free discourse with our fellow citezens WITHOUT being eavesdropped or surveilled upon, and our right to free and transparent electoral process, without which, this country can no longer be described as "the land of the free".
This might be conjecture now, but who knows...this stuff could be important later. You think our freedoms are being attacked from abroad? By whom? Even the FBI says they don't have enough evidence on Bin Laden to indict him on suspicion of carrying out 9/11, yet I've seen a plethora of documentary videos seriously implicating much of our own leadership. There are at least 9 of the alleged hijackers who are STILL ALIVE and well in their home countries.
If it isn't obvious to you we're being set up for a totalitarian police state and being conditioned to accept 'terrorism' as a means of justifying infringement upon our civil rights, and accepting more and more United Nations role in "peacekeeping" operations here in our own country, you're fucking blind. Look up "Presidential Decision Directive 25" initiated by Clinton and look at the various training exercises already taking place between the Army and local authorities (illegally, I might add) throughout the country.
Hell, look at the NSA spying. They're not only listening to our phone calls, but now they're tracking our banking records, and almost certainly our emails.
You might all be too chicken shit to speak out against the erosion of your civil liberties, but by god, I'm not. If the fucking PNAC can conjecture about "a new Pearl Harbor", or if our own government can author a disgraceful document like "Operation Northwoods", then I can certainly conjecture about things I'm not even advocating.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2006-07-09 00:48:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Nice disclaimer, Mr. "I would go to jail for my beliefs."
Submitted by FunnyAsCancer (user info) at 2006-07-08 23:30:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It doesn't matter if Fight Club did this shit, too, the fact of the matter is, you just plotted crimes against America, published them, and said "this will effectively cripple America."
God, what part of your fucked up little brain makes you think that's ok? To give people the idea that shooting famous people is a good idea, and blowing up essential public works will make society better?
It's real basic, numbskull. People are gullible idiots. You tell them things, AND SOME OF THEM WILL DO IT. If any one of those people gets assassinated, you think they're not gonna investigate you in some way? Trust me, they've found this shit by now.
There's a line between eccentric popularity, and just plain electro-retardedness, and you crossed it. No, I take that back, even electro knows not to do this kinda shit.
Submitted by ArcEld (user info) at 2006-07-08 20:54:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You can start by electing a retarded president TWICE.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 18:49:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Yams (user info) at 2006-07-08 18:28:14 (#)
Ranking: 1
Ya know, this actually makes a pretty good starting point for some adventurous authoring. Not to mention devious things I can do to cause disruption.
------------------
I would like to see someone write a fictional story based around some of this. We had such a big "After the Pandemic" thing.
By the way, did any of you know that Donald Rumsfeld once sat on the board of the company who secured the government contract to make the bird flu vaccine? True story. Look it up.
I wonder why they might try to scare us into thinking a pandemic was possible... hmmm....
Under a pandemic scare, the government would have the right to round up common civilians and quarantine areas without explanation. Interesting, huh.
Submitted by Yams (user info) at 2006-07-08 18:28:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Ya know, this actually makes a pretty good starting point for some adventurous authoring. Not to mention devious things I can do to cause disruption.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 17:26:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-08 16:17:37 (#)
Ranking: 0
Check your email.
--------------------
Stupidhead Steve is on the case.
When I was just a baby, my mama told me, "Son,
Always be a good boy; don't ever play with guns."
But I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
When I hear that whistle blowin' I hang my head and cry.
Submitted by GDR (user info) at 2006-07-08 16:22:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So whos gonna be the ass hat to forward the link from this to the fbi for kicks!
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-08 16:17:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Check your email.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 15:52:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-07-08 15:21:48 (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm past disagreeing with you. I'm now at the point of thinking you should have a bullet put in your head, now that you're advocating terrorist acts.
-----------------
How delightfully hypocritical!
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2006-07-08 15:39:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OH NOES! I AM TEH BUSTED! HOW DID YOU KNOW?!?!
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-07-08 15:37:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This plan has many assumptions, those being:
1. Prominent figures of business are irreplaceable.
2. The American public wants this to happen.
3. The American public won't be affected by or care about the CRIPPLING LOSS OF INFRASTRUCTURE.
4. Society WON'T degrade into a Mad Max-type scenario as oil
5. People with needs won't die from lack of essential supplies which can no longer reach them as there IS NO INFRASTRUCTURE ANYMORE.
6. You would make a better national leader than the one the United States has now.
7. The world is CRAVING economic chaos and a total collapse of all institutions.
Idiot.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-07-08 15:21:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm past disagreeing with you. I'm now at the point of thinking you should have a bullet put in your head, now that you're advocating terrorist acts. No bullshit please about your little hack disclaimer. It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that a withering hail of gunfire is required to inform you traitorous scum of where your bread was once buttered. Kent State, where are you?
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-07-08 15:05:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Ah yes, Wikipedia, the revolutionary's Bible!
Idiot.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 14:32:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-08 10:51:46 (#)
Ranking: -2
Jesus you are stupid.
It would never work unless you had an army of thousands because all your targets would have to be struck at once to cause real damage.
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Not entirely true.
You'd want to do the assassinations first. No need in heightening their personal security too much. Once that was done, then move on to the power stations, oil refineries, and transport routes. Interstate bridges would be a vulnerable target, and effective, and killing the lights in a town would create confusion, under the cover of which, some of these buildings might be brought down.
Who knows.
It would take quite a few people...but thousands? Have you ever seen the security outside a power station? Or a drinking water facility even? That's right, there is none. Procuring the explosives and planning would be the major part of the operation there. Same with the bridges. I don't recall ever seeing many barbed wire fences, CCTV cameras, or armed guards at any interstate bridge especially not at 3am. One, two people tops, for that job.
Is this making sense? Kinda makes you wonder what the fuck you're doing all the way in Indochina, dont it.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 14:19:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Did you people not read the numerous time I said I'm not advocating this?
I'm just pointing out that it can be done, despite what you all might think. The U.S. is not impervious, and the military being halfway 'round the world in the end could be a problem if someone decided to try some of this shit.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 14:16:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
As for having access to enough explosives to level a city block, no you didn't (you are full of shit again just like when you were going to join the peace corp and live off the grid), but even if you did do you think you can haphazardly toss it around and blow it up at once and that it would cause damage. If you had a drop of intellegence and balls you might actually be dangerous.
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Sure I did. Gunther-Nash. Subsidiary of Alberici of St. Louis. Project was 2 miles east of Nebo, KY. Mining shaft for Pyro mines. They're done now.
As for this statement: "but even if you did do you think you can haphazardly toss it around and blow it up at once and that it would cause damage."
I give you this: http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/crime/national/1995/oklahoma_city_bombing/murrah2.jpg
Now, shut the fuck up.
Submitted by Axolotl (user info) at 2006-07-08 14:13:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
If someone attacked all the trucking industries and refineries, what would be the purpose outside of pissing a lot of people off and getting arrested? Trying to go down in history as Timmy McVeigh?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 14:08:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2006-07-08 10:40:12 (#)
Ranking: -2
Dear Friend,
Kindly accept my apology for sending my mail to you. I want you to trust me and help me out in this my condition. I believe you are a highly respected personality, considering the fact that I sourced your profile from a human resource profile database on your country in the Internet.
Though, I do not know to what extent you are familiar with events and fragile political situation in Liberia but it has formed consistent headlines in the CNN, BBCnews bulletins.
My Name is Miss. Rita Nuhan 20 years old and my mother is Susan Nuhan from Liberia, a Country in West Africa, now seeking for refugee in Dakar-Senegal under the(UNHCR). The only surviving daughter and my mother a widow who is presently in Hospital in Dakar-Senegal. My late Father is Issac Nuhan Vaye, Deputy Minister of Public Works in Liberia. My Father was falsely accused of plotting to remove the then PRESIDENT OF LIBERIA CHARLES TAYLOR) from office. Without trial, Charles Taylor killed him. I am looking looking for someone who can take me as child I promise to be obedient to you and I will bring happiness to your life.
I got your contact from the Internet Search. I want you to assist me in this transaction. The deposit documents indicate me as the next of kin. Presently, I am saddled with the problem of securing a trust worthy foriegn personality to help me.
You can verify this from some of the international newspapers posted in the
web sites below:
(I) http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-07-15-liberia_x.htm
(ii) http://www.unwire.org/UNWire/20030716/449_66 21.asp
Before my Father was killed, he moved out the sum of $14 million and deposited it with a Finance Company.
All that is needed is for me to instruct the Finance company to transfer the fund to your account, We will renumerate you with 20% at the end, but most of all is that I solicit your trust in this transaction.
Kindly include your Full Name, Private Telephone and Fax Numbers where you can always be reached, your Residential or Company Address to enable him send detail information/documents that will enable you receive the fund without any problem either now or in future as all modalities as been perfected.
As soon as I get your full acceptance I will forward you the contact informations of the Finance company. My email address is ritanuhan001.at.walla.com
I will send my picture when I hear from you. Please your urgent response is needed.
Best Regards.
MISS. RITA NUHAN
-------------------
Yea...I got the same email!!!
Broke my heart first time I heard that story too! Let's help her, Method. Together, we could do so much good.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 14:03:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2006-07-08 06:12:30 (#)
Ranking: 2
Truthfully, I gotta say, terrorism's usefullness is massively increased by the reaction from the American government. 9/11, whoever instigated it, was mutally benificial to both terrorism, and the right wing agenda. So is the war on terror.
--------------
Yea, funny how that kinda worked out ain't it.
Submitted by polyamorousaj (user info) at 2006-07-08 13:51:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Most genial disclaimer EVER.
Submitted by GDR (user info) at 2006-07-08 13:01:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This wouldn't even work, not even in a movie.
Submitted by ColchesterDr (user info) at 2006-07-08 12:52:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
worth reading
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-07-08 12:38:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
FUCK OFF!!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-08 12:17:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-08 03:45:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
If you're a terrorist, you already knew this shit. It's not exactly a secret.
Haven't you ever seen 'Fight Club'?
----------------------------------------
Hahaha
I have also seen Batman but I can't put on a mask and stop organized crime.
What about Rambo haven't the Jews seen that, why don't they simply give some guy a knife, a bow and a headband so they can find that prisoner?
Actually I just saw snatch so I think I am going to get into underground boxing find a pikie and then a multi million dollar diamond will fall in my lap.
I really can't tell if you do this for the heat, if so good on you, it does amuse me.
But if you are serious, you are a pathetic delusional hypocrite with no fucking balls.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-07-08 12:04:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The government does for me necessary acts I would rather not have to do myself. They keep my hands clean to live my life.
Submitted by Dolson (user info) at 2006-07-08 11:36:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Jesus, you're trying way too hard to land your ass on some watch list.
Any why the hell would you want to overthrow your government? It does some retarded shit, but it generally beats the non-Canadian/Japanese/European/Australian alternatives (i.e. 95% of the world).
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-08 11:21:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
NOT WALRUSES OH DEAR GOD HAVEN'T YOU READ THE SURVIVALISTS GUIDE TO ANIMALS WHICH THE GOVERNMENT HAS GENETICALLY MODIFIED TO SPY ON PEOPLE LIVING OFF THE GRID IT'S A GREAT BOOK AND VERY HELPFUL BECAUSE IT TELLS US THE ONLY ANIMAL THAT WONT SPY ON US FOR THE GOVERNMENT IS THE LEMUR AND THE EMU BUT SADLY I AM ALLERGIC TO LEMURS AND EMUS ONLY LIVE IN THE WASTELAND KNOWN AS FRANCE WHICH IS REALLY A FIELD IN WESTERN NEW YORK SO I GUESS WE COULD LIVE IN WESTERN NEW YORK WHICH WOULD BE GREAT BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEE NIAGRA FALLS AND WE'D BE REALLY CLOSE TO NIAGRA FALLS WHICH IS TOTALLY NOT A PART OF ANY GOVERNMENT PROGRAM OR ANYTHING WAIT A SECOND WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS RUN BY THE US PARKS SERVICE HOLY SHIT THEY'RE WORSE THAN THE GESTAPO MY GOD ARE YOU GESTAPO YOU ARE AREN'T YOU TRYING TO LULL ME INTO THINKING THAT YOU'RE A LIKE MINDED CITIZEN WHO HASN'T BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE FLOURIDE IN THE WATER DAMN YOU FOR MAKING ME THINK I COULD TRUST YOU SO NOW YOU MUCH DIE AND I WILL KILL YOU WITH MY $4.97 FAKE MASONIC RINGS!!!
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
*mindbeams*
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-08 10:51:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Jesus you are stupid.
It would never work unless you had an army of thousands because all your targets would have to be struck at once to cause real damage. You think a few hundred men could simutaneously stop every single oil facility in the gulf, much less the US for a few days?
Even if you rounded up thousands people who "think" like you and would even discuss shit like this, half would be pussies like yourself who just talk big about bringing down the govt (even though they are afraid to ask for their tax money back), some would be barely functioning deluded drug addicts, and some would be undercover agents who would foil it.
The DC Sniper was Successful because he was hitting random targets fucktard, a lot different than going after a particular person.
As for having access to enough explosives to level a city block, no you didn't (you are full of shit again just like when you were going to join the peace corp and live off the grid), but even if you did do you think you can haphazardly toss it around and blow it up at once and that it would cause damage. If you had a drop of intellegence and balls you might actually be dangerous.
Keep living in your fantasy world where you could bring down arguably the strongest nation in the world with a few hundred people.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2006-07-08 10:40:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Dear Friend,
Kindly accept my apology for sending my mail to you. I want you to trust me and help me out in this my condition. I believe you are a highly respected personality, considering the fact that I sourced your profile from a human resource profile database on your country in the Internet.
Though, I do not know to what extent you are familiar with events and fragile political situation in Liberia but it has formed consistent headlines in the CNN, BBCnews bulletins.
My Name is Miss. Rita Nuhan 20 years old and my mother is Susan Nuhan from Liberia, a Country in West Africa, now seeking for refugee in Dakar-Senegal under the(UNHCR). The only surviving daughter and my mother a widow who is presently in Hospital in Dakar-Senegal. My late Father is Issac Nuhan Vaye, Deputy Minister of Public Works in Liberia. My Father was falsely accused of plotting to remove the then PRESIDENT OF LIBERIA CHARLES TAYLOR) from office. Without trial, Charles Taylor killed him. I am looking looking for someone who can take me as child I promise to be obedient to you and I will bring happiness to your life.
I got your contact from the Internet Search. I want you to assist me in this transaction. The deposit documents indicate me as the next of kin. Presently, I am saddled with the problem of securing a trust worthy foriegn personality to help me.
You can verify this from some of the international newspapers posted in the
web sites below:
(I) http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-07-15-liberia_x.htm
(ii) http://www.unwire.org/UNWire/20030716/449_66 21.asp
Before my Father was killed, he moved out the sum of $14 million and deposited it with a Finance Company.
All that is needed is for me to instruct the Finance company to transfer the fund to your account, We will renumerate you with 20% at the end, but most of all is that I solicit your trust in this transaction.
Kindly include your Full Name, Private Telephone and Fax Numbers where you can always be reached, your Residential or Company Address to enable him send detail information/documents that will enable you receive the fund withou