An Autopsy of Power (2311 hits)
Category: PoliticsLabels: ets_sociopolitical_commentary ets_essays
Rating: 0.82 on 142 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (View user info) at 2006-07-30 20:57:29 EDT
"Power is not a means; it is an end."
Power and the will to attain it is the fuel that drives the engine of society. It constitutes the ability to label things as one sees fit, to define and name them, and to decide between what is truth and what is fiction. When two or more people look at a thing and agree upon it, even in a state of madness or hysteria, it grants that thing power.
From the baby's first naked moments, he learns how to exercise his power over others. Before the first milk-demanding scream, he is genetically encoded to feed off the system that contains him in order to survive and thrive. Like a pilot light that is always on, the human body is propped upon the fringes of our sun's mysterious energy - to see, to consume, to perpetuate, and to die - following the paths of least resistance like electrons through the motherboard of life. We are the product of potential and Murphy's Law, the devourers of the Universe's fiery excesses, fulfilling our role by ensuring that its radiation does not go to waste. Anything that can happen will happen. Any power that can be seized will be. The human struggle for comfort demands it.
In the traditional sense, power is associated with those in direct control of the government; however, power, when viewed in these terms, can be seized by virtually anyone or anything that exerts influence over someone or something else. He who is allowed to speak his mind freely and have his input valued in his own way seizes a measure of power. The measure of his power, then, is directly proportional to the measure of his influence. Any discussion of the positive or negative value of that power would only serve to confuse the true nature of power, simply because positive and negative are artificial constructs to aid in orientation, and 'power', in its truest sense, needs no such distinctions.
In essential terms, power is an absolute value, a measure of pure influence, and no matter if that influence acts to meet or deny the needs and desires of others, it is the influence on that system above the biased equilibrium that could, if quantified, indicate the level of power exerted on the system at any given moment.
In truly free societies, all men would share power equally, and in that way, under that biasing, power would be abolished. The word 'biasing' as it is here applied carries a slightly different meaning than the usual connotation of the term. 'Biasing' can either refer to the imposition of a positive or negative charge, or it can refer, as it does in the field of electronics, to constant charge applied to something, such as an electrode or a vacuum tube. In this way, the term 'biasing' refers to the equilibrium of the entire system - the plateau from which all things, through the degree of their fluctuations, are referenced. It is the natural operating charge of the system.
To raise everyone to a level of equality requires that everyone share the same sets of needs and desires. No claim of power can be made over a man free to decide his own needs. Likewise, no claim of power can be made over he who is free to decide truth for himself, no matter how mad that truth may appear to others.
It is important at this juncture to remember that - just as in physics - the exertion of power in one direction carries an equal reaction in the opposite. But as in sound or light waves, this function occurs not at once, but over the drapery of time and space, so the two forces never immediately cancel each other out. It is only when viewed as a whole, considering the entire history of mankind from an omniscient frame of reference, that this equal action-reaction principle becomes apparent. This is what many throughout history have referred to as the war between good and evil, this constant push and pull of opposing forces of power as they struggle against the will of the human heart to cancel each other out and reach what someone trained in the art of meditation might call 'OM'.
Take, for instance, the dropping of a stone into a pool of water. Initially, the stone will create a deep depression in the fluid. If a photograph is taken of this moment, an observer who didn't know better might think this state was hopelessly ordinary, but if allowed to see succeeding frames, the violent upward reaction and subsequent oscillation that ensues will continue toward equilibrium with the bias (the water level when at rest).
In sociological terms, power is created and seized as soon as value is placed upon things, for without value in material objects, each being is nothing more than a metaphysical mind with no connection to the physical world. This is what Jesus of Nazareth was touching upon when he said, "Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and unto God what is God's." In Jesus' worldview, the only important reality, the only one with which we need concern ourselves, is that which does no acknowledge the power of tyrannical men, but instead affirms the power of God as He is manifested in every human being. To acknowledge power is to affirm its being, and if man is looked upon as a spiritual being in a transient physical experience, then power really only exists in the physical realm when affirmed by the metaphysical mind. This recalls the anthropic principle and the age-old question: If a tree falls in the forest and there are none to hear it, does it make a sound?
It could rightly be said that those in whom people see the fulfillment of a need hold power by the greatest measure. Take your employer, for instance; by holding the key to determining whether you make your mortgage/rent this month or sleep out on the street, not to mention eat, your employer holds a great amount of power over you. In the very least, he holds the threat of making life difficult and uncomfortable by forcing you to find other means of gainful employment were he to suddenly decide he no longer required your services. It is only human nature to want to follow the path of perceived least resistance and avoid this uncomfortable state of affairs, so we grant our employers this power as a trade off for stability and security. The same can be said of our governmental leaders. The public is always willing to tolerate a certain amount of corruption in their leaders in the interest of comfort and stability. People are generally adverse to rocking the boat out of conscience or principle, especially in societies that enjoy the bread and circus associated with comfortable living, and like clockwork, there seems to be no shortage of power-hungry men willing to take advantage of this fact.
In the time of ancient Rome, the Caesar would commonly treat his people to all the distractions, vices, and amenities the technology of the time could offer. This was not done because Caesar was simply generous, instead it was a calculated way of putting his almighty power on display for all to see while at the same time giving his subjects one less reason to be discontent in their station. A discontent populous is the road to downfall for any ruler, and keeping the masses diverted and docile is one of the cardinal rules of such leadership.
When basic needs are satisfied and people suddenly have too much free time on their hands, they will invariably get bored and want more. We've all heard the saying, "Idle hands are the devil's plaything," but they are also a ruler's worst nightmare. The human need for sensual stimulus can be just as powerful as sometimes as the need to eat, and the last thing any ruler wants is for his subjects to have cabin fever on a nation-wide scale. Another advantage to keeping the people diverted with entertainment, besides stopping the idle hands syndrome, is that the measure of corruption and deceit the people will be willing to overlook is increased.
In this way, we are not only ruled, we are defined, by our needs. The fundamental elements of sustenance - food, water, shelter, clothing, sleep, etc. - are essential and form the vessel from which all other non-essential needs are poured. Non-essential needs are here defined as any which are not absolutely necessary for basic survival. It is by the creation and/or control of these non-essential needs that power is oftentimes shifted in the modern world. For example, as emerging economic markets create new types of needs and, thus, new sources of power, these powers re-bias the entire system and lessen the power potential of other sources of power, because cumulative wealth is relatively static and the world is, after all, a closed system.
Take the guy who patented the first modern 4-wheeled roller skate, James Leonard Plimpton. (Yes, that's his real name, poor guy, and I suspect he had to invent the roller skate just to make friends.)
I think most of us can agree that roller skates are not a necessity, yet Plimpton was able to make a nice living from his invention. He created a product and a desire for this product and voila! Of course, whatever money Plimpton made from his invention, it can be assured, was at the expense of some other form of entertainment of the time. So in reality what Plimpton had done was redistributed the power of entertainment and diversion, and he and his roller rink would have certainly been seen as a bit of a threat to, say, the guy who ran the dance hall down the street.
In physics, power equals work divided by time. (p=w/t) The more your pickup truck can carry in a short amount of time, the more power it has. This is usually measured in horsepower. In human terms, the results of our work are evidenced in the effect we have on the system that contains us; but any measurement of our power, as in physics, must consider the element of time.
Consider all the objects you have lifted in your lifetime. A sandwich here, a remote control there, a sock, a shoe, the spare tire on your car... Now, imagine throwing all those objects on a scale and weighing them at once. How much total weight have you moved in your lifetime? Chances are it's probably quite substantial, perhaps on the order of a fully loaded battleship. Now consider how far you've moved these objects in your lifetime... The distance from your plate to your mouth is probably 18 inches on average, so that sandwich gets lifted to your mouth perhaps a few hundred thousand times, your shoes get lifted to be put on your feet a few hundred thousand times - not to mention simply walking with them on. The remote, the sock, the coffee cup, the lint in your belly button, your body itself...how far have you moved these things collectively? This will give you a rough idea of how much work (w) you've done in your lifetime, but it says little of your power output (p) without dividing that figure by time (t).
[Interesting side-note...British engineers are seeking to wire up the floors of many high-traffic, public areas and use hydraulics in an effort to harvest the wasted wattage of human footsteps. They say the footsteps from just one train station could be enough to power a whole building. http://wired.com/news/technology/0,71460-0.html?tw=wn_index_3] (Thanks, Filthy.)
Ok, back on subject... The relationship of power and time...
Most people in modern capitalist societies will make a million dollars in their lifetime. It might take them 40 or 50 years to do it, but given enough time, that number is not out of reach. A laborer making $25,000 a year, or $12 an hour, will make a million dollars in exactly 40 years. When you consider that the typical working life of most American and European people is between 40 and 50 years, from the time they graduate high school or college to the time they retire at 65, a million dollars is doable.
Taken as a whole, one's lifetime earnings might seem like a lot, but when you consider the costs of living all along the way, economic power is severely limited. Credit ratings and their effect on one's personal interest rates on a loan are both a result and a contributor to this principle. The more money one has, the better his or her credit score generally, and the better interest rates they can get on loans that will help them increase their wealth even further, for as we all know, it takes money to make money.
So, imagine if this $12 per hour laborer could somehow get his $1 million up front for his entire life's labor. He would have capital to build on. And whether he chose to pursue his own business, purchase his own home, or live off the interest, his $1 million is far more powerful at once than it ever could be over time.
This principle is most evident in the children of wealthy families. The wealthier a family, the more likely their child will eventually enter a top-grade school - one the parents would certainly pay for - and thereby increase their chances for monetary success. Coming from wealth also means that the child will likely grow up already having powerful connections in society, making it easier to obtain capital for any conceived venture and obtain employment in a far greater number of favorable positions. Many wealthy families also give their children trust funds or leave them large estates with which to get started. This is monetary power in action. In this way, the rich are able to perpetuate and increase their wealth far more easily than the poor or middle class, whose children of comparable intelligence and abilities are relegated to lesser schools and fewer social advantages.
Let's say you wanted to buy a $100,000 home and you had the cash to drop on it immediately... You're going to pay $100,000 for that home plus whatever taxes Uncle Sam wants and that's it. Enjoy your new home.
But let's say you need to get a loan to pay for that home and you need at least 20 years to pay it off. Let's also say the annual percentage rate on the loan is 6%.
6% of $100, 000 is $6000. That's 6 grand a year for 20 years just in interest to a bank. You do the math. That's more in sheer interest than you paid for the house! And that's not all.
To get the loan in the first place means you have to have a good credit rating, which means you have to have already established credit by borrowing money or making steady credit card payments in the past, not to mention the down payment.
By creating this prerequisite, banks have assured their own survival by creating a built-in need to borrow money from them. It's essentially a life-long trap that assures a poor man's servitude to those who already have wealth. Don't understand what I mean? Consider the following...
Need a place to live? To sign a lease on an apartment, you have to have good credit. Going on a business trip and need to rent a car with your debit card? To rent a car, you have to have good credit. Your credit rating even affects the cost of your insurance! That's right, insurance companies will actually charge you more for their services simply for having bad credit! As if your credit score has anything whatsoever to do with your ability to drive a motor vehicle other than in some number cruncher's spreadsheet!
There are literally dozens of things in everyday life that are off limits to those without no credit or bad credit and dozens more that further disadvantage such people.
This is the caste system of capitalism, and for many people, the American dream is a nightmare of inescapable debt and servitude. Millions of people find themselves in this nightmare as we speak. Even if you are frugal and self-reliant, choosing not to rely on credit for your purchases, you are still punished by being charged more for services because of your lack of credit. Then, ironically, the frugal person sees that it is actually more frugal to borrow money and pay some interest now just so he doesn't have to pay more for these other services over the long haul. If this isn't state-sanctioned robbery, I don't know what is.
No matter how it's disguised or dressed up or cloaked in the language of 'freedom' or 'liberty', capitalism is nothing more than a pyramid scheme wherein the rich at the top get richer while the poor at the bottom get poorer. Every so often, congress might make a big show of "cracking down" on monopolies and doing more to distribute wealth and services to the poor and middle class, but when push comes to shove, it's always the same. Everyone has his price. And as for the scapegoat company who's on the receiving end of this - probably election year - "crack down", there are a million other ways to exploit people besides the one for which they got caught. And, again, there is no shortage of people willing to find them.
Why? Because they can. This is the nature of power.
Seems to me there are only two ways of combating it... Do as Jesus said and give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, or fight back and take the power for ourselves.
Either way, the will to power lives on for those who choose to coddle it. It acts to destroy peace and brotherhood; it lives as a parasite inside us all, and feeds on the hearts of men like a worm. It builds civilizations up and then drags them back down again, and in all cases it is the people themselves that suffer.
User Reviews
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-13 15:52:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-11 12:36:35 (#)
Ranking: -2
Awwww.....
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You are a vacuous waste of time.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-11 12:36:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Awwww.....
I missed Rob defending his lover again?
Damnit all to hell.
Although I must say, this was strangely prophetic, because ETS' current post HAS been whacked to shit.
And yes, Rob, I do think on both sides of the issue.
Just because I don't agree with one doesn't mean I don't take it into consideration.
It's an adult thing.
I'm sure you'll learn it when you grow up.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-08-05 15:16:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-04 01:52:47 (#)
Ranking: 0
You two are by far the dumbest and most pathetic people on this website. Indoninja and Apollo are a close second. """
hahahaha being called dumb by you is such a complement.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-04 19:22:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-04 18:56:52 (#)
Ranking: -2
Don't you mean you're done with us until you post another super-psycho world domination conspiracy theory that gets hacked to pieces by people who can actually think on both sides of an issue?
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What exactly do you mean?
Are you inferring that you think on both sides of the issue?
Dude, you don't even READ what the issue is half the time. You are an ignorant, friendless, desperate little sycophant whom deserves more pity than anger.
You are truly pathetic.
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And Rob, how does Bradley's little cock NOT get stuck in your teeth when you fellaciate him on his own posts, and doesn't it piss you off that he doesn't reciprocate on yours?
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What on earth would posses you to think about a guy wrapping his mouth around another guy's penis.
Does this get you excited?
Do you receive an extra thrill think about gay porno staring Brad? You obsessively stupid fuck.
I happen to give credit where credit is due... you will notice I commended you on your clever "faux" ETS post. So far that is one of the few things of any merit you have ever posted to my knowledge. ETS has posted many items that I have read, that I have >enjoyed< reading, and more importantly have enjoyed discussing.
If you take even the smallest of opportunities to crawl out of your own ass and realize that this little feud you have with ETS is pointless and only makes you look like an even bigger fool than most people are already convinced you are. I already think you are a useless moron, and judging from the multiple comments I have read from people all around this site- most people think you are a tool. If you hate him so much- ignore him. This site is big enough and there are enough things for you to obsess over than following him around and proving how stupid and annoying you can be.
As far as him not participating on my posts- I couldn't care less... I enjoy the conversation I have with people who are interested, I don't obsess over the people that are not.
Don't you think it might be time for you to start growing up?
Personally I think you have some redeeming qualities, but you make people search so long to find any of them that after a while they really can't be bothered to give a fucking shit anymore.
Bah. Enjoy your loneliness.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-04 18:56:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Don't you mean you're done with us until you post another super-psycho world domination conspiracy theory that gets hacked to pieces by people who can actually think on both sides of an issue?
And Rob, how does Bradley's little cock NOT get stuck in your teeth when you fellaciate him on his own posts, and doesn't it piss you off that he doesn't reciprocate on yours?
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-04 15:48:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-04 15:30:30 (#)
Ranking: -2
you really take it personally when i critisize ets, don't you?
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Actually I take it personally when people pollute otherwise intelligent conversation with their idiocy.
I'm not being an asshole simply for the sake of it... I hold you in contempt for being stupid. I hate stupid people. The fact that I glean a fair bit of amusement out of pointing out how painfully retarded you people are is just a sweet bonus.
You SHOULD criticize ETS. I certainly do. Just know what the fuck it is you are actually talking about.
Perhaps you should actually READ (very carefully) my dissection of your inane banter. If you are going to play with the big boys, do your fucking homework. Stop being so god damn lazy (and boring.)You have a really good chance to actually learn something here and be less annoying and useless... or you can continue being an anonymous little pest like JonnyX and the rest of the useless attention whores who hover around these kind of conversations with nothing intelligent to add.
Your call, moron.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-04 15:30:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you really take it personally when i critisize ets, don't you?
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-04 12:44:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"point of fact, i did read the whole article."
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Bullshit.
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"the fact of the matter is that i didn't go through and point out each point that was either completely elementary or the things that were just plain stupid or baseless, was because i don't have the time."
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Weak. Pathetic, even. You argue like a child. If you are so strapped for time - here is a tip: ignore these threads completely as they are far too intellectually challenging for your limited little brain to comprehend. You are not fooling anyone. Go download porn.
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"i don't have the time to deal with some ignorant dick head who throws temper tantrems everytime someone disagrees with him."
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Then fuck off.
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"i don't have time..."
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I am beginning to notice a trend...
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for someone who got their degree from the university of wikipedia
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Do you even know what that means? My guess is you heard someone much smarter than you use that in an argument and have brought that into your personal bullshit sanctuary of ignorance. YOU, above most of the people I have talked to, should spend much more of you time there getting MUCH smarter. (...its ok to disagree with people, but here is a tip that is especially important in an open forum- know your shit. When you don't ... you can be sure someone else will and you really do look like a fucking moron.)
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"and suddenly thinks they're an expert on anthropology, political science, meteorology, and whatever it else you've expressed your brilliant theories on."
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>Literary cramp<
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"the reality of the situation is this: you're pissed that you've fucked half your life away and you blame the people in power for your rotten situation."
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Sweet! Pure conjecture. What do you know about reality?
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"yeah, i said i'm going to make more money than you in a week, and yeah that sounded really stupid."
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Much like most of what you say.
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"i was pointing out the fact that the oppurtunity is out there to succeed in the system if you just work at it."
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No shit? Really?
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"i volunteer more of my time than the time i spend at my real job getting paid."
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You want a cookie? That doesn't make you any smarter.
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"you act like i am this pompous kid"
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You are.
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"that things he's the shit because i go to college."
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I thing you should take a few more English classes, chuckles.
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"it has nothing to do with that. it's just that your posts are completely worthless and are pretty much an insult to the academic process."
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In your opinion. And I believe we have established a perfect solution for your assessment of his "uselessness"- FUCK OFF. Go waste your time elsewhere. You clearly have nothing to add to any grown up conversation. Beat it.
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"you use metaphors and flowery language, bravo. that's real fucking impressive. like the one with the stone dropping in the water. yeah,"
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It is impressive. All you barf out is poorly formed sentences and painful stupidiy.
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"your cock-smoking friend robbie jerked all over that one i'm sure,"
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See, you HAD to have some sort of visual when you wrote this... and seriously- why are you thinking about me jerking off? Gross.
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"but it was probably the most elementary concept i've ever read in my life."
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Here is another one for ya: get lost.
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"oh yeah, and money does mean something to me. it isn't my life, but it plays a huge role in what i can do with my life. you say shit about "oh this limited time on this floating ball in the infinite space", but guess what asshole, until someone proves otherwise, this is eternity. this is all you've got. and if money is what makes it possible for me to eat the food i want and do what i want, then yeah, i might be willing to suck a few cocks for it. does this make me materialistic? maybe. but anyone that says they aren't is a fucking liar."
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You know, wipe off the bile, and take another run at that whole thing grammatically- I can't say that I find much fault in that, as a statement. I mean if you want to whore yourself out with no real questions asked- that is entirely up to you. I just don't understand why you have such a problem with the people who are taking a conscious look at society, are trying to stimulate conversation about how they are no longer simply satisfied with the "way things are", and have made the beginning steps to try and make some sort of positive change in the world. Why is that so offensive to you? Sure ETS can be a prick- but you have the option to ignore him. Something about >what< he is saying gets under your skin, and I think you really need to examine why that is.
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"is that a good enough response for you?"
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NO, for the most part is was fucking pathetic.
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"or would you like me to go through point-for-point on your post and grade it like i would for an english 101 class?"
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Yes, that might help you actually comprehend what he is trying to say and you might be able to intelligently participate in the conversation. Until then you get an F.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-04 12:17:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-03 22:09:18 (#)
Ranking: -2
Talking to stupid people makes you get teh cancer.
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On this point we can agree...
Further to that, you are without question one of the most painfully fucking stupid people I have ever had the misfortune to communicate with.
By your own theory, you malignant idiot, you have infected at least thousands of people with you own strain of dumb.
You selfish moronic bastard.
r.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-04 01:52:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You two are by far the dumbest and most pathetic people on this website. Indoninja and Apollo are a close second.
Whatever. I'm done with ya. :)
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-03 22:09:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Wardy, trust me on this...
All arguing with ETS ever gets you is a -2bombing streak from the cocksucker or his shitty Vengance alter.
Oh, and teh cancer.
Talking to stupid people makes you get teh cancer.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-03 20:29:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
point of fact, i did read the whole article. the fact of the matter is that i didn't go through and point out each point that was either completely elementary or the things that were just plain stupid or baseless, was because i don't have the time. i don't have the time to deal with some ignorant dick head who throws temper tantrems everytime someone disagrees with him. i don't have time for someone who got their degree from the university of wikipedia and suddenly thinks they're an expert on anthropology, political science, meteorology, and whatever it else you've expressed your brilliant theories on.
the reality of the situation is this: you're pissed that you've fucked half your life away and you blame the people in power for your rotten situation. yeah, i said i'm going to make more money than you in a week, and yeah that sounded really stupid. i was pointing out the fact that the oppurtunity is out there to succeed in the system if you just work at it. i volunteer more of my time than the time i spend at my real job getting paid.
you act like i am this pompous kid that things he's the shit because i go to college. it has nothing to do with that. it's just that your posts are completely worthless and are pretty much an insult to the academic process. you use metaphors and flowery language, bravo. that's real fucking impressive. like the one with the stone dropping in the water. yeah, your cock-smoking friend robbie jerked all over that one i'm sure, but it was probably the most elementary concept i've ever read in my life.
oh yeah, and money does mean something to me. it isn't my life, but it plays a huge role in what i can do with my life. you say shit about "oh this limited time on this floating ball in the infinite space", but guess what asshole, until someone proves otherwise, this is eternity. this is all you've got. and if money is what makes it possible for me to eat the food i want and do what i want, then yeah, i might be willing to suck a few cocks for it. does this make me materialistic? maybe. but anyone that says they aren't is a fucking liar.
is that a good enough response for you? or would you like me to go through point-for-point on your post and grade it like i would for an english 101 class?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-03 19:09:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-03 16:46:14 (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/89664 -- so when these men give away their wealth (or power), you take issue with it, but when they hang on to their assets, you also take issue with it.
what the hell are they supposed to do in order to make you happy?
oh wait, that's right, they have to be on YOUR agenda. way to go, dick. that's why this was stupid, amongst other things. don't call me a moron, seeing as how in about a week i'll be making more money than you, and i'll be working part-time.
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First, I never "took issue" with Gates and Buffett donating significant portions of their wealth to charity. In fact, I applauded that in the title and expressed my reservations and shock with the question mark. I would LOVE to think that there are real men still left in the world who possess real values and a real perspective on human life and what exactly that means in a broader, unselfish context. If I took issue with anything I only took issue (IF YOU'D BOTHERED TO READ THE POST) with their stated aims and questioned the sincerity of their actions, not because I didn't approve, but because I was starting philisophical discourse in the matter with my fellow uber users. To this end, I questioned their motives and didn't draw ANY conclusions whatsoever.
Second, as for this little gem of a statement, "don't call me a moron, seeing as how in about a week i'll be making more money than you, and i'll be working part-time," what can I say?
The very fact that you think intelligence is in any way, shape, or form hinged upon how much money you make in the limited time we have here on this floating ball through space, solidifies the fact that you are a complete moron. You're directionless. You have no real values whatsoever. You have gone to a school that has indoctrinated you to think these are the things that are important in life, and because of it, you're going to be one of the FIRST idiots standing in line to kiss the ass of the New World Order and lay down your liberties on the alter of tyranny. You might THINK you're getting somewhere in life, buddy, but I'm here to tell you...you're a fucking slave. That statement you just made proves it.
The fact is, you didn't read this post, just like you didn't read the other one. Your ignorance of the subject matter is pervasive and obvious to those that did. So you can talk out of your ass all you like, but you're only going to look like an imbicile and a puppet for those with the capacity of literacy.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-03 17:34:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-03 16:46:14 (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/89664 -- so when these men give away their wealth (or power), you take issue with it, but when they hang on to their assets, you also take issue with it.
what the hell are they supposed to do in order to make you happy?
oh wait, that's right, they have to be on YOUR agenda. way to go, dick. that's why this was stupid, amongst other things. don't call me a moron, seeing as how in about a week i'll be making more money than you, and i'll be working part-time.
---
Who do you honestly think gives a shit?
This was not stupid, in fact it was very intelligently composed and for the most part well argued and sparked some rather interesting dialogue- which you no doubt completely ignored in the rush to clearly illustrate what a giant fucking tool you can be. Well, bravo.
It just so happens this conversation has pretty much stalled... so its obvious you have no real interest in TALKING- you would rather just spread your foul ass cheeks and drop a large load right on any conversation that is taking place with the BIG BAD ETS monster. Oh goody.
You are fucking annoying. If you are going to bash someone- at least bash them on their own merit. I encourage you to call them on their ACTUAL bullshit, but would require you to do your homework. Maybe try READing the posts and the comments before you spread your idiocy.
I mean fuck, you didn't even read the article you are referencing did you? Well I did. And THAT conversation was very interesting as well... divergent opinions actually being expressed and real conversation taking place. Your simplistic assessment of his position is pathetic. And lazy. Shame on you.
How about you either grow up... or fuck off? You are not amusing, nor are you impressing anyone by being a retard.
OH, and just because you will be "making more money" in a couple of weeks will not change the fact you act like a petulant child.
Now beat it ... or if you insist on sticking around, at least try not to be such a... yeah... moron.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-03 16:46:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.ubersite.com/m/89664 -- so when these men give away their wealth (or power), you take issue with it, but when they hang on to their assets, you also take issue with it.
what the hell are they supposed to do in order to make you happy?
oh wait, that's right, they have to be on YOUR agenda. way to go, dick. that's why this was stupid, amongst other things. don't call me a moron, seeing as how in about a week i'll be making more money than you, and i'll be working part-time.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-02 21:23:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-08-02 21:13:24 (#)
Ranking: -2
you are without a shadow of a doubt the stupidest person I have ever had the misfortune to communicate with.
-----------------
I don't recall you ever even trying to communicate with me.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-08-02 21:13:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you are without a shadow of a doubt the stupidest person I have ever had the misfortune to communicate with.
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-08-02 20:49:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
As long as people think it to be alive, it is. Kind of like Weekend At Bernie's 2.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-02 19:41:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Good luck on getting Wardy to be anything but a driveling moron.
I swear to god, dude, I'm not being euphamistic either...he's genuinely STUPID. The worst part is, he really thinks he's clever. I guess that's what their teaching them in these colleges nowadays...how to be self-important, aloof, and ignorant all at the same time.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-02 18:52:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-02 18:34:01 (#)
Ranking: 0
this was really stupid.
---
I completely agree. Coming by, NOT reading the whole post, maybe skimming the comments and making a simple derogatory comment is stupid.
Further to that, people who wander into these conversations and barf out insipid little comments that do absolutely nothing to further the discourse are little more than silly attention whores.
So good work on being weak.
Maybe try to be at least somewhat interesting? Just a thought.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-08-02 18:34:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
this was really stupid.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-02 01:10:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-08-01 21:45:49 (#)
Ranking: -2
The very title here is moronic and inaccurate because it works on the assertation that 'power' is dead!
------------------
Taken from the post...
"The will to power lives on for those who choose to coddle it."
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-08-01 21:45:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The very title here is moronic and inaccurate because it works on the assertation that 'power' is dead!
Submitted by ooQueso (user info) at 2006-08-01 20:42:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yeah... The world needs to end.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-01 20:32:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-08-01 20:25:25 (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't know why but i loved the title so much I have to give it a +1.
---------------
Well, thanks for that, I guess.
I'd like to discuss these things with you sometime - hear your thoughts on some of it. I think we're probably more alike in this respect than either of us would be willing to admit.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-08-01 20:25:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't know why but i loved the title so much I have to give it a +1.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2006-08-01 01:14:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
35% of the US west coast's air pollution (particulate), comes from China
so...maybe we don't have to dead-head all those empty shipping containers back, after all?
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 22:41:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:35:01 (#)
Ranking: 0
---
"This all works great in theory but as soon as you throw people into the mix it gets all fucked up. As soon as you have everyone involved in this there are the ever present problems like Apathy and Laziness that rear their ugly head."
---
Apathy and Laziness are just part of the deal. They are basic human predispositions and nothing 'we' do will ever eradicate it. Quite frankly, we shouldn't have to. If you worked your ass off ALL day- why should you be required to come home and start solving the worlds problems? The thing is >right now< we need to get BETTER people doing the work we hired them to do as part of this whole democracy thing. The separation between us an them is, in theory, non-existent. We ARE them.
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"If everyone was as concerned about making the place they live a better place then we wouldn't have this problem. The problem stems from selfishness, people care more about their own situation than their countries..."
---
And they should. I am not suggesting a radical change in that philosophy. People should continue to focus on that... but like I said we need to run this world better than its currently being run. We need to be truly selfish for a while and do what is in the best interest of all of us and design a better system.
---
"Increasing the general awareness is a great idea but when you have a 40% voter turnout how the fuck are you gonna get those people interested? Because let me tell you, it sure as fuck isn't P. Diddy that is going to do it."
---
Things like extending the voting period would be one... and certainly moving into an issue based political system would inspire more people to get involved with the issues that most concern them. If you couldn't give a shit about abortion- then you won't bother to vote on those issues... if you are concerned with health care then you will focus you attention there. Opinions get lost and diluted in a party based system and people get bored and apathetic due to the rampant inefficiency of the system. Currently it doesn't encourage participation... it only promotes disinterest and frustration.
Thank you for your helpful participation! I knew ya could do it.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 22:24:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by VelvetElvis (user info) at 2006-07-31 21:23:39 (#)
Ranking: 2
Men do not believe what they cannot see, and they will not see what they do not believe. We are all heir to illuminations and eclipses which play constantly inside, but forever forsake the truth for the lie. Lies by their nature are more beautiful, though false, and truth is at best an accessory, worn by few then lost.
You wear it well.
(Pardon my less prosaic view, but to be honest, I'm stoned)
---
That was VelvetAwesome.
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2006-07-31 21:35:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
didn't read it...too drunk. but +2 cause I thought it read
An Autism of Power!!!
Submitted by VelvetElvis (user info) at 2006-07-31 21:23:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Men do not believe what they cannot see, and they will not see what they do not believe. We are all heir to illuminations and eclipses which play constantly inside, but forever forsake the truth for the lie. Lies by their nature are more beautiful, though false, and truth is at best an accessory, worn by few then lost.
You wear it well.
(Pardon my less prosaic view, but to be honest, I'm stoned)
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-07-31 20:30:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 01:09:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
...
The top 5% owns 68% or the total wealth of the country. This tells me that the people who own the corporations in this country aren't paying their workers a fair wage.
__________________________________________________________
GUHHH DUHH LOOK AT ME IM ELECTRICTOOTHSYSTEM I BELIEVE IN THE RIDICULOUS MARXIST NOTION OF FULL REMUNERATION OF EMPLOYEES BY THE EMPLOYER UHHHH
The whole reason we have society is for the love of money. The employer pays his employees less than what he earns from their labours to make money. Otherwise, he would have no incentive to employ them, and nobody would employ anyone for any reason, as there would be nothing to gain. What the hell kind of alternative are you proposing?
Submitted by Ingsoc (user info) at 2006-07-31 20:23:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You're just upset because you got 'dealt a shit hand' and instead of skating it off and living your life regardless or actually putting in work to make something better for yourself, you've decided to complain in the hopes that Captain Power will hear your womanly shrieks and abolish the human mental process, which is what you're really bitching about.
Why do people do anything? It's all in our heads. We can't change it all to please a little bitch as yourself. Bitch.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-07-31 20:08:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
case in point: your picture. Vlad Tepes(II or III? i don't recall)' reign may have been brutal, but it was also known for having virtually no crime, and being very peaceful. domestically, i mean. the legend of him leaving a golden goblet in the town square overnight illustrates it; nobody dared to touch it.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-07-31 19:57:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
power isn't really relevant. peace is a byproduct of tyranny, i mean it all works on a scale. there's absolute freedom, and there's absolute peace. neither of which exists, everything we know is somewhere on the line between those two extremes. the problem with valuing those two virtues is that doing so often blinds one to their true nature; absolute freedom is only possible with absolute chaos, and absolute peace is only possible with absolute control. building a society of greatness isn't a matter of finding some magic formula that makes everything a-okay; it's a matter of choosing the level at which you allow those two extremes to manifest themselves. they're inversely proportional, so the more prominent one is, the less prominent is the other. and it's complicated. each decision you make in life has countless repercussions of which you're not even aware, even on the insignificant level of choosing to buy Jolly Ranchers instead of Skittles. nothing exists in a vacuum, nothing is random, but that doesn't mean we can predict everything. so how is one to decide whether to allow more peace or more freedom, without being able to know what effects his specific choice of balance will be? truth is, all one can do in these kinds of matters is make a choice and live with it. change it, improve it, build upon it over time, sure; but in the end you'll never know how much good you've done and how much evil you've done. all you can do is try your best. and, after doing that, just live. because stressing over something until the moment of death is really just a waste of your life, which can be spent in the expression of thousands of other things in addition to that one.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 19:49:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
As for the rest of your comment...(hit submit too soon)
I couldn't agree more. But it was Bush and his congress who repealed the estate tax on the wealthy.
At least some of that money could have been put to some good, but instead, now we're going to have more Prada fucking handbags and overpriced designer clothes for a bunch of spoiled pompous brats who wouldn't know what the spirit of giving was if it came up and bit them on their Maybelline-slathered faces.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 19:39:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-31 19:18:58 (#)
Ranking: 0
The problem with making sure everyone gets a cut is that sooner or later you have to coddle the lazy and the losers.
For the record, I think that the worst thing about the USA, even worse than all our gov't fuckups, are so called heirs and heiresses. The Paris Hiltons, squadering inherited wealth. That's fucked up, and not confined to the USA. Look at all the rich Eurotrash.
---------------------
No you don't, Jack. That's why I've proposed that welfare recipients should be required to do community service.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-31 19:18:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The problem with making sure everyone gets a cut is that sooner or later you have to coddle the lazy and the losers.
For the record, I think that the worst thing about the USA, even worse than all our gov't fuckups, are so called heirs and heiresses. The Paris Hiltons, squadering inherited wealth. That's fucked up, and not confined to the USA. Look at all the rich Eurotrash.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 19:08:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:31:11 (#)
Ranking: -2
So, imagine if this $12 per hour laborer could somehow get his $1 million up front for his entire life's labor. He would have capital to build on. And whether he chose to pursue his own business, purchase his own home, or live off the interest, his $1 million is far more powerful at once than it ever could be over time.
===========
This has to be the revalation of the fucking century.
If you give someone a million up front he would have more money. WTF? THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS.
You know what that $12/hr labourer would do with his million? Buy a bunch of booze and a really nice car and end up being mroe in debt than he was to start with. Don't believe me? Look at how many people who win a few mill in the lottery end up. Worse off in a few years than if they hadn't had the money in the first place.
Fuck off and come back when the shit that you spew doesn't have more holes than a fucking spaghetti strainer.
----------------------
Dude, you're a fucking idiot. I wasn't suggesting we start handing out a million dollars to people for their fucking life's work.
Is your head really that far up your ass that you'd think that's the point I was making?
You and Indo need to breed, maybe your children will have better luck on the DNA roulette wheel than you two dimwits.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:56:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:41:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:35:01 (#)
Ranking: 0
IF a plan could be designed and implemented that increased general awareness for all world citizens and tangibly distributed the balance of power to more evenly and effectively hold our governmental representatives accountable for their job performance... would that really so objectionable?
===========
This all works great in theory but as soon as you throw people into the mix it gets all fucked up. As soon as you have everyone involved in this there are the ever present problems like Apathy and Laziness that rear their ugly head.
If everyone was as concerned about making the place they live a better place then we wouldn't have this problem. The problem stems from selfishness, people care more about thier own situation than thier countries...
Increasing the general awareness is a great idea but when you have a 40% voter turnout how the fuck are you gonna get those people interested? Because let me tell you, it sure as fuck isn't P. Diddy that is going to do it.
Sorry if this is completely out of context from what you were talking about I haven't had a chance to read all the reviews.
---
HA! See... like this. Nice work. This is SO much better. I will read, digest, and respond.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:39:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:23:53 (#)
---
"Man, wtf?
The same old tired shit. If you hate your contry and all the freedoms it gives you so much just move somewhere like Nigeria and see how much fun it is you commie."
---
Then WHY bother participating with nothing more than negative, unhelpful, distractive bullshit? You are smarter than that, dude.
---
OH NOES, HERE COMES FILTHY WITH HER PSEDO INTELECTUAL COMMENTS AND WORLDY WISDOM. I HAVE BEEN TOLD, I HAD BETTER REEVALUATE MY VIEWS ON ALL MY ETS POST BECAUSE THIS SCABBY CUNT DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME.
---
She has displayed far more intelligence and worldly wisdom on this website than you certainly have my friend. You are fully entitled to have your limited views on EVERYTHING. You are encouraged to be as obtuse as you want... but I have to ask you again: WHY would you want to continue to do that? It's not so much that you say things that people find disagreeable- its that you wander into these conversations and shit all over them without adding ANYthing constructive to the conversation. It's about fundamental respect. If this isn't something that interests you... why can't you just ignore it? Why do you feel the compulsive need to spray your negative filth all over this discussion?
---
"ETS is a liberal left wing pinko commie bastard. THERE, I SAID IT, WTF ARE YOU GONNA DO??!!?? CALL ME DUMB OVER THE INTERNET."
---
You are certainly acting dumb... and childish.
---
"PS, that was the first comment I made on this post today, what are the other ones i have made to make me sound so imperceptive? Hmmm?"
---
Look, you virtually gang-pooped my posting last week... The same suggestion I had then I will bust out now: Stop acting like a dink... or just go away! Sticking around here and being so fucking obnoxious and annoying just makes you look like a bigger tool than you likely are.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:35:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
IF a plan could be designed and implemented that increased general awareness for all world citizens and tangibly distributed the balance of power to more evenly and effectively hold our governmental representatives accountable for their job performance... would that really so objectionable?
===========
This all works great in theory but as soon as you throw people into the mix it gets all fucked up. As soon as you have everyone involved in this there are the ever present problems like Apathy and Laziness that rear their ugly head.
If everyone was as concerned about making the place they live a better place then we wouldn't have this problem. The problem stems from selfishness, people care more about thier own situation than thier countries...
Increasing the general awareness is a great idea but when you have a 40% voter turnout how the fuck are you gonna get those people interested? Because let me tell you, it sure as fuck isn't P. Diddy that is going to do it.
Sorry if this is completely out of context from what you were talking about I haven't had a chance to read all the reviews.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:27:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:26:13 (#)
Ranking: 2
*aneurysm*
=========
HAHAHAHA
Why get so worked up? I cam clearly retarded in some way...
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:26:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:29:22 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 10:24:37 (#)
Ranking: 0
Joedaddy: We don't have a choice. The elections are rigged. How are the elections rigged, you ask? Glad you asked that question. It's simple. They are rigged in the media, by what is and is not allowed to reach the viewer's eyes and how that information is presented. Don't kid yourself.
Also, by stacking the deck with two members of the same secret organizations, i.e. Skull and Bones or Freemasonry, the powers that be assure they are getting a candidate they can rely on either way and are free to offer up the illusion of democracy by having a close race.
...
Bottom line... We dont have a fucking choice. It's an illusion. It's suggested by the media and we eat it up every time. If anyone still thinks we have a choice of our leaders in this country either in the primaries or the elections themselves, you're deluding yourself. I know because I was once one of you.
--
Oh Jesus.
What's next, ETS?
---
Ok. I have to agree with you on this Jack... unfortunately this is the curse of the truly brilliant conspiracy theorist is that they are a prone to searching a little too hard. Sometimes a coincidence is simply just a coincidence. Unfortunately the result of their need to connect ALL of the dots they tend to look a little fucking crazy and a little too obsessed.
But let's not skate too far past the very real, tangible points made about the power structure in the world. Sure its something that is largely ignorable- especially for all of us nerds who clickity clack most our productive lives away on this here inter-web- or at least in front of our computers. The fact that we are not dodging bombs or begging for food and shelter gives us the absolute luxury to be distracted and apathetic- but that doesn't change the fact that REGARDLESS of who is running the system- it exists. And "we" are getting fucked over each passing year. (...with varying degrees of economic lube.)
Let me ask you something:
IF a plan could be designed and implemented that increased general awareness for all world citizens and tangibly distributed the balance of power to more evenly and effectively hold our governmental representatives accountable for their job performance... would that really so objectionable?
High level?
(You can still go on making your own money... simply actively making sure that the people we hired to do the job actually DO their job. A better strong democracy is what I am suggesting... its really not that much of a stretch.)
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:26:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
*aneurysm*
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:23:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:15:35 (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:22:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
Man, wtf?
The same old tired shit. If you hate your contry and all the freedoms it gives you so much just move somewhere like Nigeria and see how much fun it is you commie.
====
Ok, that's it. That's the line right there. Seriously dude, I can't stand to read any more of your fucking retarded comments. It's like watching my cousin with Downs try to play chess - she just bangs her fists on the board until everything falls over and then declares herself the winner.
Please, please, please...either engage your brain before your mouth or just shut the fuck up because people all over the world are shaking their heads in pity every time your fingers hit the keyboard and you're too fucking obtuse to realise it.
============
OH NOES, HERE COMES FILTHY WITH HER PSEDO INTELECTUAL COMMENTS AND WORLDY WISDOM. I HAVE BEEN TOLD, I HAD BETTER REEVALUATE MY VIEWS ON ALL MY ETS POST BECAUSE THIS SCABBY CUNT DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME.
You fucking crack me up. Just because I say something you dont like. GODDAMN, thanks for the entertainment there champ.
ETS is a liberal left wing pinko commie bastard. THERE, I SAID IT, WTF ARE YOU GONNA DO??!!?? CALL ME DUMB OVER THE INTERNET.
*weeps*
PS, that was the first comment I made on this post today, what are the other ones i have made to make me sound so imperceptive? Hmmm?
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-31 18:15:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:22:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
Man, wtf?
The same old tired shit. If you hate your contry and all the freedoms it gives you so much just move somewhere like Nigeria and see how much fun it is you commie.
====
Ok, that's it. That's the line right there. Seriously dude, I can't stand to read any more of your fucking retarded comments. It's like watching my cousin with Downs try to play chess - she just bangs her fists on the board until everything falls over and then declares herself the winner.
Please, please, please...either engage your brain before your mouth or just shut the fuck up because people all over the world are shaking their heads in pity every time your fingers hit the keyboard and you're too fucking obtuse to realise it.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:49:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Even if you are frugal and self-reliant, choosing not to rely on credit for your purchases, you are still punished by being charged more for services because of your lack of credit. Then, ironically, the frugal person sees that it is actually more frugal to borrow money and pay some interest now just so he doesn't have to pay more for these other services over the long haul. If this isn't state-sanctioned robbery, I don't know what is.
--
No, it is protecting your ass.
Let's say you own a car rental business. Three guys come in to rent cars.
Guy #1 has a credit history. He has shown that he has amassed reasonable amounts of debt and paid them off in a reasonable amount of time.
Guy #2 has no credit history. He's a table of raspberries, you know, like the ancients used to call a blank slate.
Guy #3 has a terrible credit history. He is drowning in debt, and it appears that every time he has managed to get a new credit card he has gone apeshit and racked up massive charges.
Now, who are you going to rent one of your nice, shiny cars to?
Use common sense to cover your ass from the scammers and losers.
Rent to the guy with the proven track record.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:31:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
So, imagine if this $12 per hour laborer could somehow get his $1 million up front for his entire life's labor. He would have capital to build on. And whether he chose to pursue his own business, purchase his own home, or live off the interest, his $1 million is far more powerful at once than it ever could be over time.
===========
This has to be the revalation of the fucking century.
If you give someone a million up front he would have more money. WTF? THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS.
You know what that $12/hr labourer would do with his million? Buy a bunch of booze and a really nice car and end up being mroe in debt than he was to start with. Don't believe me? Look at how many people who win a few mill in the lottery end up. Worse off in a few years than if they hadn't had the money in the first place.
Fuck off and come back when the shit that you spew doesn't have more holes than a fucking spaghetti strainer.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:29:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm not a fucking communist. Who the hell are you, Senator McCarthy?
Just because I want to live in a country where our civil liberties aren't being legislated away and where my vote actually counts and the corporations and major media aren't running the show, doesn't make me a goddamn communist.
Just because I believe that the "less government is more" idea can only take you so far doesn't make me a fucking communist either. I believe in freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom to bbear arms, and freedom from fucking unreasonable searches and seizures doesn't make me a communist.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:22:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Man, wtf?
The same old tired shit. If you hate your contry and all the freedoms it gives you so much just move somewhere like Nigeria and see how much fun it is you commie.
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2006-07-31 17:01:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:36:37 (#)
Ranking: 2
It's not often these days you see such a well written and thought-provoking post on uber. I think it's a shame more people aren't giving it the credit it deserves.
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you may eat thy words when you see what Ive got planned for tommorrow
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:58:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:27:12 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:49:49 (#)
Ranking: 1
You seem to think it is unfair that the children of the rich have so many advantages, but without credit they would be the only ones who could afford school, or a nice home.
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You're also wrong on this point.
Without credit, people are encouraged to save what they have and work for what they get. IT actually works in everyone's favor NOT to use credit for their purchases.
In the example I gave above, I showed you where a $100,000 home could end up costing $220,000 when bought on credit from a bank. Where does the other $120,000 go? Straight in some rich guy's pocket, that's where.
------------------------
let me stop you right there by telling you that it doesn't go in just one guy's pocket. it gets divided up pretty good before it ever reaches the top guy.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:36:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It's not often these days you see such a well written and thought-provoking post on uber. I think it's a shame more people aren't giving it the credit it deserves.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:36:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:15:08 (#)
Ranking: -2
No Useful Comment (...so a drive by shitting will do nicely.)
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:32:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS ALL ABOUT UFOS AND IS IN CONTACT WITH ALIENS AND IS COVERING IT UP BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT THE PEOPLE TO KNOW OF THE TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE (FUCK THE ALIENS, WHO CARES, BIG-EYED SKINNY FREAKJOBS) YES THE TECJNOLOGY THAT COULD MOVE US AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS AND THAT WOULD MEAN NO MORE REVENUE FOR BIG OIL AND NO REASON TO GO TO WAR SO FUCK THE ALIENS FUCK BUSH FUCK CHENEY FUCK RICE FUCK THE ARMY FUCK THE NAVY FUCK THE AIRFORCE FUCK THE MARINES FUCK THE BOY SCOUTS FUCK THE VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS FUCK THE DAUGHTERS OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION FUCK YALE FUCK HARVARD FUCK HOLLYWOOD FUCK TELEVISION FUCK THE SENATE FUCK THE CONGRESS FUCK LINCOLN FUCK JEFFERSON FUCK ENGLAND FUCK ISRAEL FUCK IPODS FUCK IN GOD WE TRUST FUCK NO MORE PEANUTS ON AIRLINES FUCK THOSE FOUR BITCHES ON THE VIEW FUCK GLOBAL WARMING FUCK THE GAP FUCK ROLLING ROCK FOR SELLING OUT FUCK THE ROLLING STONES FOR SELLING OUT FUCK ROLLING OT OF BED IN THE MORNING TO FACE THIS BLEAK AND TORTURED EXISTENCE FUCK MY PARENTS FOR FUCKING AND CREATING ME AND PUTTING ME THROUGH THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE FUCK YOU FOR READING IT FUCK ME FOR WRITING IT FUCK EVERYTHING FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:29:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 10:24:37 (#)
Ranking: 0
Joedaddy: We don't have a choice. The elections are rigged. How are the elections rigged, you ask? Glad you asked that question. It's simple. They are rigged in the media, by what is and is not allowed to reach the viewer's eyes and how that information is presented. Don't kid yourself.
Also, by stacking the deck with two members of the same secret organizations, i.e. Skull and Bones or Freemasonry, the powers that be assure they are getting a candidate they can rely on either way and are free to offer up the illusion of democracy by having a close race.
Third, I have a few words for you. Let's play an association game. I say the word and then you tell me the first thing that comes to mind. Ok, let's get started...
DIEBOLD.
Florida recount.
Brother.
Robert Kennedy.
Lifetime appointment.
Supreme Court.
Chads.
Black voters.
Jeb.
Bottome line... We dont have a fucking choice. It's an illusion. It's suggested by the media and we eat it up every time. If anyone still thinks we have a choice of our leaders in this country either in the primaries or the elections themselves, you're deluding yourself. I know because I was once one of you.
--
Oh Jesus.
What's next, ETS?
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-07-31 16:15:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 15:56:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 15:23:44 (#)
Ranking: 0
Let me spell this out for y ou Indo, seeing as you're a complete fucking moron.
I already KNEW about the fucking 15th amendment when I asked you that question about why it's not an amendment. I was setting you up to agree with me, which you subsequently DID!
So, thank you.
I rest my fucking case.
-------------------------
What case are you resting? That we didn't necessarily have rights spelled out in the constitution? Wouldn't that be agreeing with my argument that we actually have more rights now then we used to have?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 15:23:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Let me spell this out for y ou Indo, seeing as you're a complete fucking moron.
I already KNEW about the fucking 15th amendment when I asked you that question about why it's not an amendment. I was setting you up to agree with me, which you subsequently DID!
So, thank you.
I rest my fucking case.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 15:12:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:59:14 (#)
Ranking: 0
You totally fucking missed what I just said, and fuck you and your little -2s every time I say something you disagree with or completely misunderstand.
That just makes you a dick.
I TOLD YOU IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF MY REVIEW: "The 'right' was there to do it before then as well, they just would have been run out of town with no means by which to challenge those who ran them out."
Then I went on to say, "Look, we don't have more rights. It's that simple. People have stood up over the years and challenged others to affirm the rights they already had..."
What about that don't you understand?
I know I asked "why isn't it an amendment", and I did that for a fucking reason! You just affirmed the REASON I was aksing that quesion. You gave the answer I wanted you to give, but you thought you were being more clever than me so you decided to be a dick about it.
Jesus.
--------------------------------------------
So you don't see the fact that they are not run out of town and can fight it as them actually having the right? I mean what would be the point of saying they had the right if they could in pracitce not exercise that right? That is like saying Iraq under saddam was a democracy because they had the right to vote, they could only vote for one person but they had the right.
"Let me ask you this... Why is it the right to vote that we 'gave' blacks, the right that made black congressmen possible, is a bill that expires every 25 years rather than a constitutional amendment?"
I gave a -2 because this was flat out wrong.
This -2 is because you are whining. I wasn't being a dick, i get annoyed when people spout off urban legends and/or don't understand the constitution.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 15:09:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh, and indoninja...
I notice you tend to focus on the little semantic points you disagree with in these discussions while largely ignoring or even actively trying to de-rail the main conversation with your blanket marginalization and dismissive rhetoric.
It's annoying and to be honest that hurts MY soul. Try a little participaction, dude.
I imagine you are far more interesting when yer not being such a caustic prick.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 15:08:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:40:34 (#)
Ranking: -2
We DO have more rights then we did in the 60's. It is nice to say that we always had them people just had to stand up for them but the fact is you could not get away with saying the same stuff you can get away with saying and doing now.
-------------------
Does anyone besides me see the craziness in what this guys says?!?!
You talk about not caring because you're comfortable and not willing to stand up for your rights because you don't think they're being stolen from us.
Then you go on to say that we have more rights not than we did in the 60s.
Then you make a half-assed admission that I'm right and we don't have more rights, we just had people that stood up for them and claimed the rights they already had.
You can't have it both ways, dude.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 15:02:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:51:12 (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but splitting up the replies and commenting on each portion might make it easier for you to reply, but it hurts my eyes...and my soul.
I just don't think you should blame the system or the people who profit from the system if they make money because other people are stupid/lazy.
----
People have mentioned this- but it's not so much that it is easier for me- it just creates the proper context for me to reply to what you are saying directly in the hopes to create something resembling a real dialogue. Its a lot of work- but in the end I think it is more effective... even if it destroys your tainted, negative, apathetic soul.
You say a lot of things... and a lot of them require individual attention. This blurb didn't, so I will happily conform to your request.
That's obvious you think that. Hopefully one day you will realize that its not about the fact that some people profit- its that the system is designed for only a few people to ever >REALLY< succeed and generally enables the "powerful" to continue their near-absolute control of our lives through manipulation and greed.
The fact that we are stupid/lazy is pathetic... it doesn't change the fact that we are getting hooped.
r.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:59:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:40:34 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:25:33 (#)
Ranking: 0
The gay pride parades and black congressmen is not a valid argument. Their occurrance reflects the changing social attitudes more than actual 'rights'. The 'right' was there to do it before then as well, they just would have been run out of town with no means by which to challenge those who ran them out. Black congressmen simply would not have been elected.
Let me ask you this... Why is it the right to vote that we 'gave' blacks, the right that made black congressmen possible, is a bill that expires every 25 years rather than a constitutional amendment?
Don't you think that's a fair question?
Look, we don't have more rights. It's that simple. People have stood up over the years and challenged others to affirm the rights they already had, but if it's not in the constitution, it's not a 'right'.
You say the Patriot Act isn't permanent, we'll see. But the point is, they've shit on the first and fourth amendments with it. Even if it only lasts a year, that's a year too long. I don't care what EXCUSE you use...terrorism, whatever...it's not fucking worth it.
PERIOD.
-----------------------------------
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa120298.htm
"The confusion arises from the apparent assumption that it's the Voting Rights Act alone which guarantees suffrage to minorities. In reality, all the Act does is keep in place a set of so-called "extraordinary remedies" meant to enforce the Fifteenth Amendment at state and local levels, where, in defiance of federal law, obstacles to the voting rights of black people were still in place in some parts of the country as of the early 1960s. These remedies, designed specifically to address problems that existed at the time, were never meant to be permanent, which is why the Voting Rights Act comes up for renewal every 25 years."
15th Amendment, article 1: "The right... to vote shall not be denied or abridged... on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
It is an ammendment.
We DO have more rights then we did in the 60's. It is nice to say that we always had them people just had to stand up for them but the fact is you could not get away with saying the same stuff you can get away with saying and doing now.
----------------------------
You totally fucking missed what I just said, and fuck you and your little -2s every time I say something you disagree with or completely misunderstand.
That just makes you a dick.
I TOLD YOU IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF MY REVIEW: "The 'right' was there to do it before then as well, they just would have been run out of town with no means by which to challenge those who ran them out."
Then I went on to say, "Look, we don't have more rights. It's that simple. People have stood up over the years and challenged others to affirm the rights they already had..."
What about that don't you understand?
I know I asked "why isn't it an amendment", and I did that for a fucking reason! You just affirmed the REASON I was aksing that quesion. You gave the answer I wanted you to give, but you thought you were being more clever than me so you decided to be a dick about it.
Jesus.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:51:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:32:20 (#)
Ranking: 2
Little contradictory with your previous statement- but I COMPLETELY agree with you.
Its kinda what we are saying... people are stupid- but we are getting fucked over because of that collective stupidity. At least you recognize some of what we are saying.
--------------------------------
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but splitting up the replies and commenting on each portion might make it easier for you to reply, but it hurts my eyes...and my soul.
I just don't think you should blame the system or the people who profit from the system if they make money because other people are stupid/lazy.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:40:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:25:33 (#)
Ranking: 0
The gay pride parades and black congressmen is not a valid argument. Their occurrance reflects the changing social attitudes more than actual 'rights'. The 'right' was there to do it before then as well, they just would have been run out of town with no means by which to challenge those who ran them out. Black congressmen simply would not have been elected.
Let me ask you this... Why is it the right to vote that we 'gave' blacks, the right that made black congressmen possible, is a bill that expires every 25 years rather than a constitutional amendment?
Don't you think that's a fair question?
Look, we don't have more rights. It's that simple. People have stood up over the years and challenged others to affirm the rights they already had, but if it's not in the constitution, it's not a 'right'.
You say the Patriot Act isn't permanent, we'll see. But the point is, they've shit on the first and fourth amendments with it. Even if it only lasts a year, that's a year too long. I don't care what EXCUSE you use...terrorism, whatever...it's not fucking worth it.
PERIOD.
-----------------------------------
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa120298.htm
"The confusion arises from the apparent assumption that it's the Voting Rights Act alone which guarantees suffrage to minorities. In reality, all the Act does is keep in place a set of so-called "extraordinary remedies" meant to enforce the Fifteenth Amendment at state and local levels, where, in defiance of federal law, obstacles to the voting rights of black people were still in place in some parts of the country as of the early 1960s. These remedies, designed specifically to address problems that existed at the time, were never meant to be permanent, which is why the Voting Rights Act comes up for renewal every 25 years."
15th Amendment, article 1: "The right... to vote shall not be denied or abridged... on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
It is an ammendment.
We DO have more rights then we did in the 60's. It is nice to say that we always had them people just had to stand up for them but the fact is you could not get away with saying the same stuff you can get away with saying and doing now.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:39:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:19:52 (#)
Ranking: 0
It comes down to personal preference. At the end of 20 years you coud have the 128k for a house that wouldn't be as big or as nice as the 100k house (20 yrs ago). You say you are losing out by paying more, but during that time you have a nice house you can have kids in. I mean who wants to raise a family in a shitty apt? To me it IS worth paying more to have a home, to have a few bedrooms and bathrooms, to not have to deal with a landlord or the jerk upstairs who plays his music too loud.
-----------------
Trust me, I understand your argument, but the initial point was that banks are making money hand over fist by financing debt and we were examining its association with the power structure in today's capitalist society.
Furthermore, you missed what I said when I said that $128,000 doesn't include the interest that money would have accrued sitting in a bank, or in 10-year bonds, or stocks, or whatever other investment you choose to make with your money while you have it. And that's the point, you will HAVE capital to help yourself truly get ahead. You can choose to make your money work for you rather than against you. As long as you make more every year than the rate of inflation in the housing market, you're doing fine, wouldn't you have to agree?
What you've essentially done is downgraded your house to an apartment for 20 years for a $120,000 dollar reward (because that money has not been thrown away on interest).
PLUS...during that 20 years you aren't having to pay maintenance costs on your home or home owner's insurance. An additional HUGE savings.
But you're right, it is a personal choice.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:32:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
---
"It lacks bile, because this was a reasonable and readable post."
---
Fair enough. I think mine was quit readable as well... but obviously you didn't. Anyways- it's good to see you in conversation mode.
---
Apathy and distraction are a good reason for revolution? I just don't get that one.
---
That's also fair. All I am saying (and have been saying) is that some people DO think it is. I happen to think very strongly that it is through our collective apathy and convenient distraction that we enable all of the manipulative assholes who own the various systems (media, political, religious, economic) to continue doing a crappy job.
Oh they get 'a' job done... but its not a very good one.
---
People generally have comfortable lives,
---
In western civilization you are right - generally. But there are LOTS of people who live below the arbitrary "poverty line"- and while many of those assholes are lazy and degenerate fuckers who need beatings more than they need handouts- WE should be doing a better job proactively preventing their current uselessness.
People aren't generally born useless- they just become so through situation and personal misfortune or choice. We can do better.
---
"the picture of gloom and oppression through credit protrayed here isn't that accurate."
---
Sure it is... on a high level. I totally agree with you on the house thing. Owning is FAR better than renting. (although there is some unique examples where buying isn't the best option... although generally you are right about the upside of that investment)
---
"I don't think we need a revolution because I don't think our rights are being trampled."
---
Then you are naïve and/or far more tolerant of your eroding rights and liberties.
---
I don't think we should get rid of capatilism because I have yet to see a better alternative,
---
I am saying one can be created. We got some smart mother-fuckers out there. Let's tap into some of that genius and create this better alternative. Just because one doesn't already exist doesn't discount the need for one.
---
"and frankly I think it is pretty naive to think one will be invented through conversations on Uber."
---
Sure, if people like you insist on being such giant poopypants all the time. There are some really smart nerds on this site... and I think good things come from ANY conversation that is held with the proper amount of genuine interest and belief that we can do better.
How effective will these conversations eventually be? Who knows... but I am just glad they are being had.
---
"I don't think the majority of people are getting screwed in the bum,"
---
Well, they are. Whether you choose to "believe" it or not is entirely up to you.
---
"I think the majority are fucktards who let themselves be screwed in the bum."
---
Little contradictory with your previous statement- but I COMPLETELY agree with you.
Its kinda what we are saying... people are stupid- but we are getting fucked over because of that collective stupidity. At least you recognize some of what we are saying.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:25:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:15:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
No evidence suggests that some shadowy group runs the media for world domination, we are never going to see eye to eye on it, so I will drop it.
How many gay pride parades were there in the 60's? Black congressmen? NAMBLA? People openly mocking the president nightl on TV? Porn? We get away with a lot more BS then we could in the past.
And the patriot act isn't permanent.
---------------
The gay pride parades and black congressmen is not a valid argument. Their occurrance reflects the changing social attitudes more than actual 'rights'. The 'right' was there to do it before then as well, they just would have been run out of town with no means by which to challenge those who ran them out. Black congressmen simply would not have been elected.
Let me ask you this... Why is it the right to vote that we 'gave' blacks, the right that made black congressmen possible, is a bill that expires every 25 years rather than a constitutional amendment?
Don't you think that's a fair question?
Look, we don't have more rights. It's that simple. People have stood up over the years and challenged others to affirm the rights they already had, but if it's not in the constitution, it's not a 'right'.
You say the Patriot Act isn't permanent, we'll see. But the point is, they've shit on the first and fourth amendments with it. Even if it only lasts a year, that's a year too long. I don't care what EXCUSE you use...terrorism, whatever...it's not fucking worth it.
PERIOD.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:19:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:10:06 (#)
Ranking: 0
Good catch. My bad. I miscalculated.
Still, that doesn't negate my point. In the same time it took you to pay $220,000 for a $100,000 home, you could have been saving $128,880 that will be accruing interest the whole time, and unless the value of that house increases by 120% over that 20 year period, you're losing out by not saving it yourself, because you're going to have no capital available for investments.
This is exactly why so many people take out a second mortgage on their homes, paying interest yet AGAIN on something they should have just saved for.
------------------------------------
It comes down to personal preference. At the end of 20 years you coud have the 128k for a house that wouldn't be as big or as nice as the 100k house (20 yrs ago). You say you are losing out by paying more, but during that time you have a nice house you can have kids in. I mean who wants to raise a family in a shitty apt? To me it IS worth paying more to have a home, to have a few bedrooms and bathrooms, to not have to deal with a landlord or the jerk upstairs who plays his music too loud.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:15:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:52:54 (#)
Ranking: 0
You say there is no collusion between the media and a shadowy group of people, the evidence suggests otherwise. Plus you're simply forgetting who owns the media and the quid pro quo that goes on between the media and the politicians. And they're not just trying to take over America, they've already done that, I was saying they are helping to push us toward world government.
If you can't see it, it's not my problem. It's yours.
If you think we have more rights now than we did in the 1950s and 1960s, you haven't been paying much attention. There have been 4 amendments to the Constitution since 1947. Only one of them expands our rights in any real manner, and all they did there was lower the voting age from 21 to 18. Another affirms our right to vote in primaries without being discluded for not paying poll taxes or any other taxes.
The 25th amendment actually takes AWAY rights by enabling a vice president to take control of the presidency in the even the president is incapacitated for health or other reasons, and gives a method by which that power could be kept by the vice president in the event the president was able to resume his office.
Yet another reaffirms part of our nation's problem, which is the electoral voting process.
If that still isn't enough for you, then just read some of the Patriot Act.
As for this statement: "Global warming is BS." Not surprising coming from some asshole who worked in the oil business.
-----------------------------------
No evidence suggests that some shadowy group runs the media for world domination, we are never going to see eye to eye on it, so I will drop it.
How many gay pride parades were there in the 60's? Black congressmen? NAMBLA? People openly mocking the president nightl on TV? Porn? We get away with a lot more BS then we could in the past.
And the patriot act isn't permanent.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:10:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:18:35 (#)
Ranking: -2
The question is, how much of your money gets flushed down the toilet while buying a house vs. renting while saving? It's a matter of simple mathematics.
Buying a $100,000 home at 6% interest over 20 years, your payments are going to be about $916 a month. For the first 10 or 11 years you are going to be paying on the interest, not principle. I pay $474 a month for my apartment in Evansville, Indiana. By renting while saving the additional $537 every month, in just 10 years' time, I would have $128,880 in my bank account, NOT COUNTING the interest I'd accrue on this money.
With that I could buy a BETTER house in LESS TIME and have NO DEBT!
Have I made my point yet?
-------------------------------------
Try again.
In ten years you would have $64,440, it would take you 20 years to get $128,880.
Now you have to account for how much the cost of a house has gone up over those 20 years. Most houses have gone up over 28% in 20 years.
So at the end of the day you will have lived in a shitty apt for 20 years and not be able to afford as nice a house as you would have if you got a mortgage right away.
-----------------
Good catch. My bad. I miscalculated.
Still, that doesn't negate my point. In the same time it took you to pay $220,000 for a $100,000 home, you could have been saving $128,880 that will be accruing interest the whole time, and unless the value of that house increases by 120% over that 20 year period, you're losing out by not saving it yourself, because you're going to have no capital available for investments.
This is exactly why so many people take out a second mortgage on their homes, paying interest yet AGAIN on something they should have just saved for.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 14:08:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:43:22 (#)
Ranking: 2
You know what Indoninja, you waded into this conversation looking to pick a fight and you got one...
For the record I think your arguments have been quite measured so far. I disagree with them, but they do lack the normal bile you so regularily coat your offering with.
Yes it is. So good of you to notice.
And THAT is precisely why we are saying it needs to take place. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? You point to apathy and distraction as some sort of excuse to NOT start a revolution... we say that is reason one is needed. Ours is supported by pages of documentation, hours of testimony and the continued focused discussion of some of this planet's smartest and most altruistic people... Yours is the caustic negative opinion of a cranky internet nerd and inspired by the notion of: bah! Fuck it. Where is the remote?
See THIS is where someone of intelligence might offer up something useful. Instead of just shrugging their shoulders and doing their best to shit all over the conversation- it would be helpful to offer up some alternatives. Capitalism has its merits- but 'we' created it... and 'we' can create something better- WE just don't want to. I think the free market is necessary to promote innovation and reward hard work by giving people the economic incentive to try a little harder. Where we fall short is the idea that we need to embrace just one political paradigm.
I have often said that we need to become an issue based society... cherry pick the good parts from all is "isms" and create a better system. From scratch if we have to. Get global buy-in.
Sure its an absurd, difficult notion... but not impossible.
Well SURE you can. If you play nice and play along. Its fucking bullshit, though. We are locked into forced economic servitude right from the very moment we are born. Now, no-one is saying that is entirely a terrible thing because I agree with you, we do have a pretty comfortable lifestyle in western civilization. Also we have that proverbial carrot being dangled around and we see how successful >some< people can be in the free market.
But the majority of us are getting fucked right in the bum.
It's not a question of it being individually fair... as a society we fail millions of people, every day. Why? Because of greed and the econ... poor me" scenario- it is a high level look at how horrible the ENTIRE system is and hopefully a starting point for doing something about it.
So really more of a "boo hoo... poor us" scenario, really.
---------------------------------------
It lacks bile, because this was a reasonable and readable post.
I actually didn't mean to -2 the last one, it was probably a simple math mistake not an intentional "lie".
Apathy and distraction are a good reason for revolution? I just don't get that one.
People generally have comfortable lives, the picture of gloom and oppression through credit protrayed here isn't that accurate. I don't think we need a revolution because I don't think our rights are being trampled. I don't think we should get rid of capatilism because I have yet to see a better alternative, and frankly I think it is pretty naive to think one will be invented through conversations on Uber.
I don't think the majority of people are getting screwed in th ebum, I think the majority are fucktards who let themselves be screwed in the bum.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:52:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:58:33 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:38:40 (#)
Ranking: 0
Being entertained is not inherently bad. It's when it's being used to distract people and cover things up and spin the news we see that it's bad.
Bottom line is, people like you won't see that it's happening until it's too late and they've slowly taken ALL your rights from under your nose while you comfortably napped. This is how past dictators have seized power, my friend. They've lulled their populations to sleep with empty promises and reassuring rhetoric while they legally destroyed their people's rights.
If you just watch your fucking TV like a zombie while not paying attention to what's really going on in the world, you're going to wake up one day and realize you're fucked.
Plus, if you nap long enough and continue to enjoy the creature comforts while making no effort to stem your carbon output, you might just live long enough to see global warming kick all our asses. How many days of 100-degree weather this year in this country?
----------------------------------------
It isn't being used to distract people, before TV every person wasn't a political activist. A lot of people just don't care.
There is no collusion between the media and some shadowy group who wants to take over America.
As far as taking away my rights, look at the US now compared to the 50's or 60's are you telling me we don't have more rights?
Global warming is BS.
------------------
You say there is no collusion between the media and a shadowy group of people, the evidence suggests otherwise. Plus you're simply forgetting who owns the media and the quid pro quo that goes on between the media and the politicians. And they're not just trying to take over America, they've already done that, I was saying they are helping to push us toward world government.
If you can't see it, it's not my problem. It's yours.
If you think we have more rights now than we did in the 1950s and 1960s, you haven't been paying much attention. There have been 4 amendments to the Constitution since 1947. Only one of them expands our rights in any real manner, and all they did there was lower the voting age from 21 to 18. Another affirms our right to vote in primaries without being discluded for not paying poll taxes or any other taxes.
The 25th amendment actually takes AWAY rights by enabling a vice president to take control of the presidency in the even the president is incapacitated for health or other reasons, and gives a method by which that power could be kept by the vice president in the event the president was able to resume his office.
Yet another reaffirms part of our nation's problem, which is the electoral voting process.
If that still isn't enough for you, then just read some of the Patriot Act.
As for this statement: "Global warming is BS." Not surprising coming from some asshole who worked in the oil business.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:43:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You know what Indoninja, you waded into this conversation looking to pick a fight and you got one...
For the record I think your arguments have been quite measured so far. I disagree with them, but they do lack the normal bile you so regularily coat your offering with.
---
"Bullshit."
---
Yes it is. So good of you to notice.
---
"People aren't revolting and seizing control because they have reasonably comfortable lives. Average joe isn't storming the capitol because he has NASCAR or MTV to watch on his 40 inch TV, not because he has any real hope of striking it rich."
---
And THAT is precisely why we are saying it needs to take place. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? You point to apathy and distraction as some sort of excuse to NOT start a revolution... we say that is reason one is needed. Ours is supported by pages of documentation, hours of testimony and the continued focused discussion of some of this planet's smartest and most altruistic people... Yours is the caustic negative opinion of a cranky internet nerd and inspired by the notion of: bah! Fuck it. Where is the remote?
---
"What would you propose in its place? I don't think capatilism is perfect, but is the closest any system has come to it."
---
See THIS is where someone of intelligence might offer up something useful. Instead of just shrugging their shoulders and doing their best to shit all over the conversation- it would be helpful to offer up some alternatives. Capitalism has its merits- but 'we' created it... and 'we' can create something better- WE just don't want to. I think the free market is necessary to promote innovation and reward hard work by giving people the economic incentive to try a little harder. Where we fall short is the idea that we need to embrace just one political paradigm.
I have often said that we need to become an issue based society... cherry pick the good parts from all is "isms" and create a better system. From scratch if we have to. Get global buy-in.
Sure its an absurd, difficult notion... but not impossible.
---
"I don't know if you are trying to mislead people or if you don't get it but you can have a credit rating without paying interest. You can get a card and pay it off every month and --not have any interest charges."
---
Well SURE you can. If you play nice and play along. Its fucking bullshit, though. We are locked into forced economic servitude right from the very moment we are born. Now, no-one is saying that is entirely a terrible thing because I agree with you, we do have a pretty comfortable lifestyle in western civilization. Also we have that proverbial carrot being dangled around and we see how successful >some< people can be in the free market.
But the majority of us are getting fucked right in the bum.
---
You seem to think it is unfair that the children of the rich have so many advantages, but without credit they would be the only ones who could afford school, or a nice home.
---
It's not a question of it being individually fair... as a society we fail millions of people, every day. Why? Because of greed and the econ... poor me" scenario- it is a high level look at how horrible the ENTIRE system is and hopefully a starting point for doing something about it.
So really more of a "boo hoo... poor us" scenario, really.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:18:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The question is, how much of your money gets flushed down the toilet while buying a house vs. renting while saving? It's a matter of simple mathematics.
Buying a $100,000 home at 6% interest over 20 years, your payments are going to be about $916 a month. For the first 10 or 11 years you are going to be paying on the interest, not principle. I pay $474 a month for my apartment in Evansville, Indiana. By renting while saving the additional $537 every month, in just 10 years' time, I would have $128,880 in my bank account, NOT COUNTING the interest I'd accrue on this money.
With that I could buy a BETTER house in LESS TIME and have NO DEBT!
Have I made my point yet?
-------------------------------------
Try again.
In ten years you would have $64,440, it would take you 20 years to get $128,880.
Now you have to account for how much the cost of a house has gone up over those 20 years. Most houses have gone up over 28% in 20 years.
So at the end of the day you will have lived in a shitty apt for 20 years and not be able to afford as nice a house as you would have if you got a mortgage right away.
Submitted by ripple (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:15:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
powers not dead...
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:11:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:49:59 (#)
Ranking: -2
---
"Hey Rob, how's about you get off of my nuts."
---
Stop being a useless asshole and I will. Promise.
---
"We all know you have the hard on for me, like a ton of others,"
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No, really. Listen: We find you annoying. All of us. It's not any misguided affection, jealousy or whatever fantasy you have created to explain why so many people find you so tiring. You pretty much suck.
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"because at one point or another, I insulted you bad enough to cause a personal reaction in your real world."
---
And THAT? Is definitely not the case. Contrary to the limited effort I put into highlighting what a retard you behave like- I don't care much about you at all.
---
"It's OK.
There are classes you can take."
---
For what? Tolerating assholes? Patience? I don't think there are any classes that can help make you any more likeable.
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"And if cocksmoke is played out, I guess I'll just start calling you both twatcheese."
---
Twatcheese? You really just don't get it do you. It's a cycle. We call you an idiot- you demonstrate just how much of one you truly are. Well, at least you are being foolish in public... anyone who wanders along can see what an unhelpful petulant child you act like around here. There is something to be said about the virtual point and laugh.
---
"That should stay fresh for a day or two until you can come up with another "boy, look at JayPeg, he's fucking pathetic, and that makes me bigger because I said so" replies."
---
I know... maybe stop for a moment and ask yourself if what I am saying to you >might< be valid. Strip away all the condescension and the obvious distain for your stupidity... and ask yourself if you like how most people talk to you. If you are, in fact, all that likeable.
Just for fun. Be honest with yourself and maybe try to at least tolerable. Please?
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 13:05:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:50:28 (#)
Ranking: 0
No it isn't better to rent a crappy apartment for a few years. All the money you pay in rent goes completewly down the toilet, with a mortgage some of it gets flushed down the toilet in interest but you are still on your way to owning something.
Plus there are quality of life issues involved in where you live. I would much rather be on the way to owning soemthing and live in a nice place while doing it instead of pissing away rent in a shithole for the 10-15 years it would take (minimum) to buy a good house.
Massive debt is not like slavery. People have a choice in how they pay it back, how much they debt they take on and there are things like bankrupcy. Do people even get thrown in prison for debt anymore?
----------------
The question is, how much of your money gets flushed down the toilet while buying a house vs. renting while saving? It's a matter of simple mathematics.
Buying a $100,000 home at 6% interest over 20 years, your payments are going to be about $916 a month. For the first 10 or 11 years you are going to be paying on the interest, not principle. I pay $474 a month for my apartment in Evansville, Indiana. By renting while saving the additional $537 every month, in just 10 years' time, I would have $128,880 in my bank account, NOT COUNTING the interest I'd accrue on this money.
With that I could buy a BETTER house in LESS TIME and have NO DEBT!
Have I made my point yet?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:59:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:56:14 (#)
Ranking: 0
Have you ever taken out a loan at a bank?
I didn't say carrying no balance on your credit cards will hurt your credit score, I just said it doesn't particularly help it.
--------------------------
I had excellent rating when I got my first loan (car loan) and up to then I only had credit cards with no balance.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:58:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:38:40 (#)
Ranking: 0
Being entertained is not inherently bad. It's when it's being used to distract people and cover things up and spin the news we see that it's bad.
Bottom line is, people like you won't see that it's happening until it's too late and they've slowly taken ALL your rights from under your nose while you comfortably napped. This is how past dictators have seized power, my friend. They've lulled their populations to sleep with empty promises and reassuring rhetoric while they legally destroyed their people's rights.
If you just watch your fucking TV like a zombie while not paying attention to what's really going on in the world, you're going to wake up one day and realize you're fucked.
Plus, if you nap long enough and continue to enjoy the creature comforts while making no effort to stem your carbon output, you might just live long enough to see global warming kick all our asses. How many days of 100-degree weather this year in this country?
----------------------------------------
It isn't being used to distract people, before TV every person wasn't a political activist. A lot of people just don't care.
There is no collusion between the media and some shadowy group who wants to take over America.
As far as taking away my rights, look at the US now compared to the 50's or 60's are you telling me we don't have more rights?
Global warming is BS.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:56:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:42:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
I never carry a balance on my credit cards and I have an excellent credit rating.
---------------
Have you ever taken out a loan at a bank?
I didn't say carrying no balance on your credit cards will hurt your credit score, I just said it doesn't particularly help it.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:53:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
wtf I'm not reading all that lol rofl lolosaur wtf bbq zomg.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:50:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:27:12 (#)
Ranking: 0
You're also wrong on this point.
Without credit, people are encouraged to save what they have and work for what they get. IT actually works in everyone's favor NOT to use credit for their purchases.
In the example I gave above, I showed you where a $100,000 home could end up costing $220,000 when bought on credit from a bank. Where does the other $120,000 go? Straight in some rich guy's pocket, that's where.
If you consider that the person who bought the home will be lucky to make $1.5 million in their entire lifetime, that $120,000 is a big chunk of their working life wasted...down the fucking drain.
The best way to obtain a home is to save all the money required to purchase one up front. Of course there is the question of where you live in the meantime. There are ways of splitting rent with others that helps out. Living with the folks for a while might be a good idea while you save money.
The bottom line is, it's probably better to rent a crappy apartment for a few years while you save every extra penny than work twice as long and twice as hard for the same reward.
This is essentially slavery when you think about it. Creating obligations in people such as a massive debt basically makes them willing slaves.
What? You don't like that analogy? Well, I'm sorry, but that's exactly what it is.
-----------------------------------------
No it isn't better to rent a crappy apartment for a few years. All the money you pay in rent goes completewly down the toilet, with a mortgage some of it gets flushed down the toilet in interest but you are still on your way to owning something.
Plus there are quality of life issues involved in where you live. I would much rather be on the way to owning soemthing and live in a nice place while doing it instead of pissing away rent in a shithole for the 10-15 years it would take (minimum) to buy a good house.
Massive debt is not like slavery. People have a choice in how they pay it back, how much they debt they take on and there are things like bankrupcy. Do people even get thrown in prison for debt anymore?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:42:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:17:41 (#)
Ranking: 0
You're wrong about this. You don't build credit by paying off the cards completely every month. That's not the way credit scores work. You might be able to get *a* credit score by doing it, but it's not gonna be a particularly good one.
You get good credit scores by making minimum payments regularly, which means paying interest over the long term. Credit cards are not the best way of establishing credit, because their fees and high interest rates kill. Just to have the card in the first place you have to pay a membership fee much of the time.
---------------------------------------------------
I never carry a balance on my credit cards and I have an excellent credit rating.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:39:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Molari (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:30:04 (#)
Ranking: 0
There is some merit here, but you're missing a lot. Yes Power is a big part of what drives capitalism. But even without the thirst for power, capitalism can work. So its not the free market thats the problem but human nature. We're just doing the best we can.
-------------------
I'm sorry, but that comment was just dumb.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:38:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:52:29 (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't see being entertained as a bad thing.
I would rather watch sitcoms then try and tear down a govt because I think I could do a better job.
I don't think that it is some big conspiracy, we like creature comforts, once we get into a comfortable position we don't see a need to fight over everything, and I don't think that is bad.
----------------
Being entertained is not inherently bad. It's when it's being used to distract people and cover things up and spin the news we see that it's bad.
Bottom line is, people like you won't see that it's happening until it's too late and they've slowly taken ALL your rights from under your nose while you comfortably napped. This is how past dictators have seized power, my friend. They've lulled their populations to sleep with empty promises and reassuring rhetoric while they legally destroyed their people's rights.
If you just watch your fucking TV like a zombie while not paying attention to what's really going on in the world, you're going to wake up one day and realize you're fucked.
Plus, if you nap long enough and continue to enjoy the creature comforts while making no effort to stem your carbon output, you might just live long enough to see global warming kick all our asses. How many days of 100-degree weather this year in this country?
Submitted by Molari (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:30:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
There is some merit here, but you're missing a lot. Yes Power is a big part of what drives capitalism. But even without the thirst for power, capitalism can work. So its not the free market thats the problem but human nature. We're just doing the best we can.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:27:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:49:49 (#)
Ranking: 1
You seem to think it is unfair that the children of the rich have so many advantages, but without credit they would be the only ones who could afford school, or a nice home.
--------------------
You're also wrong on this point.
Without credit, people are encouraged to save what they have and work for what they get. IT actually works in everyone's favor NOT to use credit for their purchases.
In the example I gave above, I showed you where a $100,000 home could end up costing $220,000 when bought on credit from a bank. Where does the other $120,000 go? Straight in some rich guy's pocket, that's where.
If you consider that the person who bought the home will be lucky to make $1.5 million in their entire lifetime, that $120,000 is a big chunk of their working life wasted...down the fucking drain.
The best way to obtain a home is to save all the money required to purchase one up front. Of course there is the question of where you live in the meantime. There are ways of splitting rent with others that helps out. Living with the folks for a while might be a good idea while you save money.
The bottom line is, it's probably better to rent a crappy apartment for a few years while you save every extra penny than work twice as long and twice as hard for the same reward.
This is essentially slavery when you think about it. Creating obligations in people such as a massive debt basically makes them willing slaves.
What? You don't like that analogy? Well, I'm sorry, but that's exactly what it is.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 12:17:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:49:49 (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't know if you are trying to mislead people or if you don't get it but you can have a credit rating without paying interest. You can get a card and pay it off every month and not have any interest charges.
---------------------
You're wrong about this. You don't build credit by paying off the cards completely every month. That's not the way credit scores work. You might be able to get *a* credit score by doing it, but it's not gonna be a particularly good one.
You get good credit scores by making minimum payments regularly, which means paying interest over the long term. Credit cards are not the best way of establishing credit, because their fees and high interest rates kill. Just to have the card in the first place you have to pay a membership fee much of the time.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:54:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yes.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:52:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:48:40 (#)
Ranking: 0
How is it, Indo, that you can see that...what you just said...and yet I am a wacko when I say our leaders are doing it on purpose?
Can you not see that TV is the delivery instrument for the bread and circus that is the New Rome? It's a mass-hypnosis machine. It rebiases our minds to accept the version of reality they want us to see. It's there to either manipulate our thoughts, or prevent us from having any in the first place.
----------------------------
I don't see being entertained as a bad thing.
I would rather watch sitcoms then try and tear down a govt because I think I could do a better job.
I don't think that it is some big conspiracy, we like creature comforts, once we get into a comfortable position we don't see a need to fight over everything, and I don't think that is bad.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:49:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"This is the caste system of capitalism, and for many people, the American dream is a nightmare of inescapable debt and servitude. Millions of people find themselves in this nightmare as we speak. Even if you are frugal and self-reliant, choosing not to rely on credit for your purchases, you are still punished by being charged more for services because of your lack of credit. Then, ironically, the frugal person sees that it is actually more frugal to borrow money and pay some interest now just so he doesn't have to pay more for these other services over the long haul. If this isn't state-sanctioned robbery, I don't know what is."
What would you propose in its place? I don't think capatilism is perfect, but is the closest any system has come to it.
I don't know if you are trying to mislead people or if you don't get it but you can have a credit rating without paying interest. You can get a card and pay it off every month and not have any interest charges.
You seem to think it is unfair that the children of the rich have so many advantages, but without credit they would be the only ones who could afford school, or a nice home.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:48:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:44:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
The US is certainly more unfree than free, but it is not entirely unfree. It is this dream of power - the American Dream - that keeps the powerful empowered. Without the possibility of wealth and power, the masses would revolt and seize control of the reigns of power. In our society, there is just enough potential for power that the power structure is able to maintain its state.
It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution.
---------------------------------------------
Bullshit.
People aren't revolting and seizing control because they have reasonably comfortable lives. Average joe isn't storming the capitol because he has NASCAR or MTV to watch on his 40 inch TV, not because he has any real hope of striking it rich.
-----------------
How is it, Indo, that you can see that...what you just said...and yet I am a wacko when I say our leaders are doing it on purpose?
Can you not see that TV is the delivery instrument for the bread and circus that is the New Rome? It's a mass-hypnosis machine. It rebiases our minds to accept the version of reality they want us to see. It's there to either manipulate our thoughts, or prevent us from having any in the first place.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:44:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2006-07-31 06:37:53 (#)
Ranking: 2
In today's society credit is necessary. It is not an evil, however. Credit does not cause debt, credit enables debt. Debt is a tool to be used responsibly. The average person is somewhat irresponsible with debt (I think I read someplace that the average American adult carries $8000 in credit card debt). It arises from the notion that the phrase "I can't afford it" means the same thing as "I'm poor" instead of "I'm responsible enough to forgo that expense". That's why I see $4000 TVs in houses with leaking roofs, gold-plated wheels on barely-functioning cars, parents killed by their kids for their insurance.
Once, there was no such thing as 'credit'. In the 1600s, the Medicis in Italy began loaning some of their vast fortune to other countries' royalty and eventually it became standard practice for governments to borrow or loan. Forty years ago, a loan for a car was still not a general bank offering. I can remember when having a credit card of any type was still a status symbol. Today, you get a gold card when you buy your books at the college bookstore and you don't even have to have a job. Everyone gets a credit card, all you have to do is go to school.
Credit is not the problem. Lack of personal responsibility is the problem.
-----------------
I agree to an extent. But the problem goes well beyond that. It goes to the heart of modern society and the gaping holes therein. There is a fundamental flaw in our system that is not only allowed, but actively encouraged. The mounting of debt is only a symptom of the real cause. This is why my post was about 'power' and not 'debt'. Debt is only a weapon weilded in the war for power.
When everything is boiled down and looked at in its most basic state, there are a few giant gears that turn all the smaller gears in the modern world.
Fossil Fuels.
Military Might.
Fiat Currency.
Media Propaganda/Advertising.
These are basically the giant cogs in the modern imperialistic machine. These are the central gears from which all others derive their power.
All the talk about personal responsibility is moot. The system is designed to accumulate debt, because that's the way the private world bankers who own the printing presses that create our currency have set it up. Did you not see my part about credit scores? In the post, I showed you how even the frugal
Look up the following...
Jekyll Island and the Federal Reserve.
World War II was started by the industrialists and bankers. So was WWI. Banks in the United States were financing both sides of the conflict. On such bank was owned by Prescott Bush, our president's grandfather. It was later seized by J. Edgar Hoover's FBI as an enemy asset. All of these banks and their owners are members of the same secret societies many of our politicians and media moguls are members of and who I've been talking about lately.
Council on Foreign Relations
Trilateral Commission
High level Freemasonry
OTO
Illuminati
Skull and Bones
Bilderberg Group
Bohemian Grove
All these groups are but branches of one giant interconnected pyramidal conspiracy wherein the low level operative know absolutely nothing about what they're really doing. One look at their member lists should give any reasonable and thinking human being cause for pause. Ever wonder what bankers, politicians, media moguls, and wealthy corporate heads are doing at the same closed door meetings every year? Have you even considered it? If you don't at least wonder, you have no interest in the truth.
Look at Woodrow Wilson. He initiated the globalist movement after WWI when he suggested a League of Nations. He ratified the Federal Reserve system. Basically, he unwittingly allowed WWI to happen. Look at what Franklin Roosevelt did in his terms as president. He cracked down on gun ownership, quarantined and imprisoned thousands of Japanese Americans, ignored warnings Pearl Harbor was about to happen, stayed on as president past his constitutionally legal tenure. He set some pretty dangerous precedents.
Look at the heads of state in America and Europe. Freemasons, the whole stinking lot of 'em. These people have a plan for world domination, a New World Order. A Novus Ordo Seclorum. They have been working toward this for hundreds of years. Their symbolism is everywhere. It's about ultimate power. It's about becoming God.
I'm sorry if that makes me sound crazy. It's just what I see. Of course idiots like jaygreening will point out that he is a Mason and nothing like that is happening, but what jaygreening is forgetting is that secret societies are secret for a reason and even if he had knowledge of anything, he wouldn't tell the rest of us, but the fact is he doesn't have a CLUE what's really going on because he is probably a second or third degree in a system that goes up to 33 degrees.
What time is it, by the way, Jay? How old are you?
Most of the people in Freemasonry do it for the networking, to further their careers in some way, or just simply the fraternity of it. This blind loyalty and brotherhood is used as an instrument for domination in all walks of life whether its lower level members realize it or not.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-07-31 11:44:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
The US is certainly more unfree than free, but it is not entirely unfree. It is this dream of power - the American Dream - that keeps the powerful empowered. Without the possibility of wealth and power, the masses would revolt and seize control of the reigns of power. In our society, there is just enough potential for power that the power structure is able to maintain its state.
It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution.
---------------------------------------------
Bullshit.
People aren't revolting and seizing control because they have reasonably comfortable lives. Average joe isn't storming the capitol because he has NASCAR or MTV to watch on his 40 inch TV, not because he has any real hope of striking it rich.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 10:58:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks to Rob and Snare for more helpful and interesting comments.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 10:24:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Joedaddy: We don't have a choice. The elections are rigged. How are the elections rigged, you ask? Glad you asked that question. It's simple. They are rigged in the media, by what is and is not allowed to reach the viewer's eyes and how that information is presented. Don't kid yourself.
Also, by stacking the deck with two members of the same secret organizations, i.e. Skull and Bones or Freemasonry, the powers that be assure they are getting a candidate they can rely on either way and are free to offer up the illusion of democracy by having a close race.
Third, I have a few words for you. Let's play an association game. I say the word and then you tell me the first thing that comes to mind. Ok, let's get started...
DIEBOLD.
Florida recount.
Brother.
Robert Kennedy.
Lifetime appointment.
Supreme Court.
Chads.
Black voters.
Jeb.
Bottome line... We dont have a fucking choice. It's an illusion. It's suggested by the media and we eat it up every time. If anyone still thinks we have a choice of our leaders in this country either in the primaries or the elections themselves, you're deluding yourself. I know because I was once one of you.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 10:10:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 02:45:52 (#)
Ranking: -2
Well, for that little bit of dipshittedness, I guess I *will* -2 it.
------------------
Oh no...please stop it...please...I beg of you, no...no Jay...
t.o.o.l.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2006-07-31 06:37:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
In today's society credit is necessary. It is not an evil, however. Credit does not cause debt, credit enables debt. Debt is a tool to be used responsibly. The average person is somewhat irresponsible with debt (I think I read someplace that the average American adult carries $8000 in credit card debt). It arises from the notion that the phrase "I can't afford it" means the same thing as "I'm poor" instead of "I'm responsible enough to forgo that expense". That's why I see $4000 TVs in houses with leaking roofs, gold-plated wheels on barely-functioning cars, parents killed by their kids for their insurance.
Once, there was no such thing as 'credit'. In the 1600s, the Medicis in Italy began loaning some of their vast fortune to other countries' royalty and eventually it became standard practice for governments to borrow or loan. Forty years ago, a loan for a car was still not a general bank offering. I can remember when having a credit card of any type was still a status symbol. Today, you get a gold card when you buy your books at the college bookstore and you don't even have to have a job. Everyone gets a credit card, all you have to do is go to school.
Credit is not the problem. Lack of personal responsibility is the problem.
Submitted by Method (user info) at 2006-07-31 06:25:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
very well written and interesting
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-07-31 06:14:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution.
============================
I blame marijuana for this.
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:52:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:49:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Hey Rob, how's about you get off of my nuts. We all know you have the hard on for me, like a ton of others, because at one point or another, I insulted you bad enough to cause a personal reaction in your real world.
It's OK.
There are classes you can take.
And if cocksmoke is played out, I guess I'll just start calling you both twatcheese.
That should stay fresh for a day or two until you can come up with another "boy, look at JayPeg, he's fucking pathetic, and that makes me bigger because I said so" replies.
Submitted by nightshade (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:47:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good post, good theory, but let me ask you one thing, if everyone was suddenly given 1 milion dollars for their lifetime what do you think would happen when people ran out?
90% of rich people now would be rich again and the same people would be poor.
Money's a funny thing, it causes a lot of fuss for an imaginary concept.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:40:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 02:45:52 (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh Jesus, the unhelpful dialogue of jgreening strikes again.
Look, follow along closely fella, I will point out where you are so galactically annoying and maybe you can start to figure out why most people don't like you very much.
---
"Well, for that little bit of dipshittedness, I guess I *will* -2 it."
---
Well good for you! Way to be petty and childish all at the same time.
---
"Forgive me for actually partially agreeing with you on something, cocksmoke."
---
Aww! Did widdle Jay get his feelings hurt? You fucking idiot.
And really, do you honestly think "cocksmoke" holds any real power anymore? You spit out these silly names in some freakish attempt to divert attention away from the fact you have nothing new to add to most conversations. Actually you >might< have something to add... but you are such a disruptive cunt that anything relevant you might say gets lost in all the bullshit.
---
"I'll remember from now on that you're pissy when someone disagrees with you, because of your messiah complex, and even pissier when someone kind of agrees with you, because then you can't claim that you're all alone in your views."
---
And what are YOU doing right now? Retard! He might have a messiah complex - so what? So now you are going to pollute the rest of this conversation because of why?
Because you agree with him and he was rude?
---
"Cocksmoke."
---
See? Why? It's boring... no one is amused. You are not being clever with that. In any way. Honest.
r.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:34:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
AUTO +2 for wood cut picture of Vlad Tepes
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:18:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2006-07-31 03:59:20 (#)
Ranking: -1
----
Well done! This is a perfect example of precisely what most people are programmed to think about ANYthing as 'vast' as taking control of our own destiny. I mean you are textbook negative. (if such a textbook actually existed. Perhaps it should.)
"it's still Your choice in a democracy"
Meh, I can't really fault you on that statement individually. I agree... we DO choose this democracy- but it's because we are lazy and apathetic and otherwise busy, like you mention.
This does NOT excuse us for our ignorance, however. We should absoutely do something about it.
----
"you have the choice, in your vote, to choose which fools, be it on a municipal, state or federal level, you want to represent what power, if any, you want restricted or enhanced and if it's to be directed to the few, the many, or noone"
----
blah blah blah. You agree with pert near everything that is being said... yet you slather it with so much angst and boredom that all it does is set up your lazy notion to marginalize ever doing anything about how badly we are all getting fucked over. It's defeatist. It's pussified apathy. Give your head a shake or don't bother participatiing in discussions far above your limited capacity to offer anything useful.
----
this is especially true when it relates to commerce
----
Could you please elaborate on that? That might be an interesting and valuable point that people should discuss. Please?
----
"i think the balance is also maintained by individual choice"
----
Oh yeah? Do tell.
----
"for most, it's much easier to hang with the 'powerful' with the hope of either inclusion in their club or the possibility of getting a little piece broken off, for you and your support"
----
Most? Hardly. Sounds like a pretty pathetic lifestyle to me... sure there is a healthy 'envy' of the wealthy assholes and all of their lovely toys... and I fully admit there is absolutely the tendency to suck a rich person's ass every now and again... but only a very few people even care enough to notice much outside of their own personal little bubble of influence. We are largely indifferent. And its depressing.
----
grassroots movements sometimes take too long, especially, when you have mouths to feed
----
Grassroots? Are you fucking kidding me? Euphemistic bullshit. It's a movement, sure- but not all that grassy. And it NEEDS to happen. And education is the key.
What would take so long? Have you tried it? Are you claiming some relevant skill that would make you some sort of expert in movements?
Of course did just take a giant dump on a discussion that is quite valid and added virtually nothing producive to the discourse... so one might say you have at least some experience.
C'mon... You can do better than simply being a negative blowhard. I just know it.
Now run along or play nice.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 05:04:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Nah, gotthe point of it joe, but I was directing that towards the opening line :"it's still Your choice in a democracy"
But I getcha.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2006-07-31 04:50:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 04:12:12 (#)
Ranking: -2
In a republic, we elect the people who make the laws
***
i guess you failed to notice that was the main, and most important, point i was trying to make
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 04:31:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 (#)
Glad to see you out to play, sir. Very well presented.
"The irony of the whole thing is that if the masses were able to gain such approval and establish such coordination, they would become the powerful and the cycle would begin again."
I disagree. That assessment is pure conjecture. (measured and based on tangible human history and our staggering track record of being assholes... but still a HUGE drawing of conclusion, batman.)
"We" now have the capacity for instant communication. Never before in our sullied past have we ever had the ability to instantly know what is going on... all over the world.
WE've just hired some really fucking stupid people to represent us on a world level and I honestly think we should give some serious consideration to beating the ever loving shit out of all of them. The stupider and more destructive- the bigger the beating.
(Metaphorically, of course... but even heavily laced in literary sarcasm- you have to admit there are some mother-fuckers out there who really deserve a punch right in the brain.)
Still, they are employees. We need to start treating them as such. We have the numbers, we should be the ones calling the shots. It really comes down to whether or not we can remain logical, measured, empathetic, and aware in our holding these dinks accountable.
"The problem is that not all people are created equally. In any given topic, some people will be more knowledgeable and some people will try harder than other people. In a "reasonably free" society, the people who put in the most effort are able to gain power even against the interests of the empowered. In an "unfree" society, the unempowered are unable to gain power if unsupported by the powerful. "
Fair enough. But why don't we change that?
"The US is certainly more unfree than free, but it is not entirely unfree. It is this dream of power - the American Dream - that keeps the powerful empowered. Without the possibility of wealth and power, the masses would revolt and seize control of the reigns of power. In our society, there is just enough potential for power that the power structure is able to maintain its state."
Then I say FUCK the power structure. We got the numbers. We now have the ability to communicate globally and instantly. We should come up with a better way to run this world.
"It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution. "
Bah. It's time for a revolution... of awareness. A revolution of accountability.
We need an Intellectual Revolution ™ powered by da-web.
Submitted by BranDo (user info) at 2006-07-31 04:31:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Good piece allthough Autopsy is usually being performed on deads.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 04:12:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Joedaddy, don't make that first mistake of assuming we're a democracy.
We're not.
We're a Republic.
I know some people see it as a minor issue, but it's not.
In a democracy, every law is voted on by the people, and there is no singular leader. Rome under the Senate was a democracy.
In a republic, we elect the people who make the laws, and there is a single, non-monarch leader.
Like we have.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2006-07-31 03:59:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution.
***
it's still Your choice in a democracy
you have the choice, in your vote, to choose which fools, be it on a municipal, state or federal level, you want to represent what power, if any, you want restricted or enhanced and if it's to be directed to the few, the many, or noone
this is especially true when it relates to commerce
i think the balance is also maintained by individual choice
for most, it's much easier to hang with the 'powerful' with the hope of either inclusion in their club or the possibility of getting a little piece broken off, for you and your support
grassroots movements sometimes take too long, especially, when you have mouths to feed
Submitted by Snare (user info) at 2006-07-31 03:00:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
EDIT on that book reference:
Economia - New Economic Systems to Empower People and Support the Living World
by Geoff Davies: ABC press
Submitted by Snare (user info) at 2006-07-31 02:55:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS,
If you want to get more information on the debt-driven monetary system, its corrosive effect on society and a discussion of a few alternatives, there's a book called "Economia" by ?David Grey? - <unsure of the author, sorry.>
This also has a great analysis on society as a complex system, along with a good introduction to complex systems theory that alone was worth the cost of the book.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-07-31 02:49:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Very well thought out and executed.
Bravo, sir.
Moving that a little further:
Knowledge is power... so conversely ignorance is the absence of power.
In general "we" are incredibly ignorant. Most of us are good peeps. Individually onderful - collectively retarded.
"I recently heard the following sentence on CNN: "Because of high winds, about 250,000 people in New England are without power." I thought, "Gee, when you think about it, about 275 million people in the United States are without power. They just aren't aware of it." - George Carlin "When will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops."
I think "we" have the capacity to learn much more- but we are either to lazy, stupid, prone to manipulation, bored, apathetic, religiously brainwashed, or just simply unwilling to KNOW more.
Most of the world's problems can be distilled down to 2 basic evils: ignorance and money.
One is the lack of knowledge (power) and the other is a concept fabricated by society to lubricate the capitalistic orgy we all know and love as the free market.
We need to get smarter and re-think this whole "cash" thing.
r.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 02:45:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well, for that little bit of dipshittedness, I guess I *will* -2 it.
Forgive me for actually partially agreeing with you on something, cocksmoke.
I'll remember from now on that you're pissy when someone disagrees with you, because of your messiah complex, and even pissier when someone kind of agrees with you, because then you can't claim that you're all alone in your views.
Cocksmoke.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-07-31 02:30:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think the interesting sidenote about the footfall scientists makes the piece.
Submitted by Snare (user info) at 2006-07-31 02:12:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Further to Bart's points:
The mechanism used to convince the multitude to stay in train and to keep pursuing the American Dream is in itself worth of study. I'd argue that this mechanism is another very real asset (in addition to their control of oil, ETS) as this asset gives them control of the populace.
This asset is the popular media. This point was well explored by Chomsky in his book on the subject (sorry, the title eludes me at present.)
By controlling the means of mass communication and also by controlling the very powerful propaganda tool that is television they have gotten the general populace to be as misinformed as the likes of jgreening.
Consider:
(caveat these numbers are approximate from memory, please refer back to Chomsky's book for the actual data)
40% of people believe they are in the top 5% of income earners
65% of people believe that they will one-day be in the top 5% of wealthiest households.
If these people knew the facts, they might be a bit more interested in revolution.
The use of mass media to misinform goes to specifics as well as general mind-set.
Consider:
G.W. Bush has repealed more environmental legislation than any presidency in history by a huge margin. And yet many republican voters believe he is a pro-environmental president and that Suddam Hussien was involved in 9/11(per Robert Kennedy Jnr; Crimes Against Nature.)
And yet despite documentaries like Outfoxed, people in their millions still get their political discourse from Rupert Murdoch's propaganda machine. The miasma of misinformation is so pervasive, the population so apathetic, that even stand out books, doco's and a the growing use of the internet seem powerless to generate any meaningful spread of dissatisfaction with the way our world is being run.
My only hope is that 'The Tipping Point' applies here, and that at some point the message will achieve social contagion. I see this mechanism as being the only real chance we have of avoiding ETS's canned-food-and-shotguns survivalist scenario.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 01:11:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Shut the fuck up, Jay. Goddamn your fucking worthless.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-31 01:09:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by AshyLarry (user info) at 2006-07-30 23:55:05 (#)
Ranking: 0
"The top 1% of the population of this country own 95% of the wealth."
I think you meant:
"The top 1% of the population owns as much wealth as the bottom 95% of all Americans combined."
-----------------
Yep. Thanks.
The point still stands.
The top 5% owns 68% or the total wealth of the country. This tells me that the people who own the corporations in this country aren't paying their workers a fair wage.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-07-31 01:05:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Holy shit, ETS.
Look at this real closely.
Why?
The rating, fucktart.
Although Bart put it a lot better, in a lot shorter terms.
Funny thing, but what Bart said is something *I* have said when Rob Berg started complaining about needing a revolution.
Ah well.
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2006-07-31 00:12:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Read Tigerlily's latest TMI. You're in it.
Submitted by AshyLarry (user info) at 2006-07-30 23:55:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"The top 1% of the population of this country own 95% of the wealth."
I think you meant:
"The top 1% of the population owns as much wealth as the bottom 95% of all Americans combined."
Submitted by eppliks (user info) at 2006-07-30 23:39:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
Power and freedom are a matter of perspective and neither are concrete or tangible.
The only thing that makes the powerful powerful is that other people recognize their power in one manner or another. In a friendly power structure, the powerful are respected as rightful leaders. In a neutral power structure, the powerful are disliked but posess some resource that the unempowered want and the unempowered are not willing to seize that resource through force. In an oppressive power structure, the powerful use threat of violence or death against the unempowered to maintain their position of power.
In all these positions, the masses are able to seize power whenever they desire, however they require coordination and mass approval to do so. The irony of the whole thing is that if the masses were able to gain such approval and establish such coordination, they would become the powerful and the cycle would begin again.
The problem is that not all people are created equally. In any given topic, some people will be more knowledgeable and some people will try harder than other people. In a "reasonably free" society, the people who put in the most effort are able to gain power even against the interests of the empowered. In an "unfree" society, the unempowered are unable to gain power if unsupported by the powerful.
The US is certainly more unfree than free, but it is not entirely unfree. It is this dream of power - the American Dream - that keeps the powerful empowered. Without the possibility of wealth and power, the masses would revolt and seize control of the reigns of power. In our society, there is just enough potential for power that the power structure is able to maintain its state.
It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution.
____________________
Quiet. Can't hear my radio.
Submitted by Genko (user info) at 2006-07-30 23:26:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-30 23:17:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
PS -
Vlad Tepes really knew how to fuck over those Muslims.
Now we know your true feelings on THAT matter.
Ahahahahaha!
Submitted by fun_with_needles (user info) at 2006-07-30 23:10:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Bravo.
FOR THE ALLIANCE! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOt!!!!!!!
Submitted by Defect (user info) at 2006-07-30 23:07:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
All I could think was "FUCK THIS IS LONG" as I was scrolling down the page.
+2 for people getting impaled on pikes
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-30 22:25:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
That being said, I agree with some of your points, Jack. Still, I think you are too quick to throw stones. Everyone deserves a fighting chance and I just don't think a lot of people are getting that.
In all the shit that you say henceforth on this post, just remember this... The top 1% of the population of this country own 95% of the wealth.
If it makes me a 'commie' to find a fucking problem with that then paint my ass red and pass the AK-47.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-30 22:19:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:56:38 (#)
Ranking: 0
This is an enabling society at work, making excuses for those who can't get off their ass and do a decent day's work.
----------------
I knew you'd put your foot in your mouth at some point in your review and there it is. When the minimum wage hasn't risen in a fucking decade and all our good jobs are being shipped overseas in favor of rinkydink minimum wage service positions so we can buy more crap we don't need on credit, no less, there is a fucking problem.
And I'm sorry, but us 'commies' aren't the only ones who see it.
You talk about people getting off their asses and doing an honest day's work, but you attack the people who are already down instead of the rich daddy's boys whose first (failed) companies were financed by daddy's buddies and their little silver spoon trust funds.
Of course, those people are fit to be our presidents though, right? Rich daddy's boys whose C average Yale education couldn't even succeed in making them smarter than a fucking stump.
Good argument.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:56:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Need a place to live? To sign a lease on an apartment, you have to have good credit. Going on a business trip and need to rent a car with your debit card? To rent a car, you have to have good credit. Your credit rating even affects the cost of your insurance! That's right, insurance companies will actually charge you more for their services simply for having bad credit! As if your credit score has anything whatsoever to do with your ability to drive a motor vehicle other than in some number cruncher's spreadsheet!
There are literally dozens of things in everyday life that are off limits to those without no credit or bad credit and dozens more that further disadvantage such people.
This is the caste system of capitalism, and for many people, the American dream is a nightmare of inescapable debt and servitude.
--
I sorry to have to use such overused words, but this reeks of commie/socialist horseshit.
I am not rich. I am not powerful.
I manage my money carefully, so I live well (not to Shlongy's standard's, buy it works for me and I am debt free.
My next door neighbors are welfare scum.
I hear them talking all they time how they are scamming this and that from county agencies. They have no desire or motivation to work, and then they piss and moan when they can't buy luxuries.
This is an enabling society at work, making excuses for those who can't get off their ass and do a decent day's work.
Part of the benefit package for employees of the city of San Francisco includes 'gender reassignment' surgery.
Meanwhile, I can walk down the street and, ignoring the addled and useless crack addicts and drunks for whom I have no sympathy, I can see lucid and desperate single moms begging for change with kids in their arms.
We can't help the single mom, who (on average) will do anything to provide for her kids, yet we will let GENERATIONS of families live on welfare.
The system is fucked, all right, but not in the way you think.
PS - This is a good argument, kid.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:52:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thanks Jay.
Submitted by dr_weazel (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:47:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
WTF, I'M SOOOOO NOT READING ALL THAT
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:44:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 (#)
Ranking: 2
It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution.
------------------
Funny ain't it.
It's almost as if they've made it their business to know where that threshold is. ;)
This is why screaming out and raising a rucous is so important. People say it changes nothing, but they're dead wrong. It holds the powerful at bay, so to speak, when so many voices are added to the din of opposition. They know that the status quo will be in danger if they do not bring it back a little bit. The problem is for them, they can't maintain it much longer. They're losing their grip, and some of us sense weakness and smell blood and are ready and willing to pounce.
They won't know who those people are until their brains are flying out the back of their heads JFK style. Then the cycle will begin anew and it will be THEY who are the losers.
Their Achilles heel is is also their only real asset and that's the control of oil. The corporations they run are made of brick and morter, steel and concrete, and just like everything else, they can be brought down in a flash.
The more people speak openly about this, the less they will be willing to push us the fuck around.
Yes, give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, but don't ever let him step on your head. Freedom is having the ability to choose the hour of your own death or accept that nature will choose for you.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:16:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Power and freedom are a matter of perspective and neither are concrete or tangible.
The only thing that makes the powerful powerful is that other people recognize their power in one manner or another. In a friendly power structure, the powerful are respected as rightful leaders. In a neutral power structure, the powerful are disliked but posess some resource that the unempowered want and the unempowered are not willing to seize that resource through force. In an oppressive power structure, the powerful use threat of violence or death against the unempowered to maintain their position of power.
In all these positions, the masses are able to seize power whenever they desire, however they require coordination and mass approval to do so. The irony of the whole thing is that if the masses were able to gain such approval and establish such coordination, they would become the powerful and the cycle would begin again.
The problem is that not all people are created equally. In any given topic, some people will be more knowledgeable and some people will try harder than other people. In a "reasonably free" society, the people who put in the most effort are able to gain power even against the interests of the empowered. In an "unfree" society, the unempowered are unable to gain power if unsupported by the powerful.
The US is certainly more unfree than free, but it is not entirely unfree. It is this dream of power - the American Dream - that keeps the powerful empowered. Without the possibility of wealth and power, the masses would revolt and seize control of the reigns of power. In our society, there is just enough potential for power that the power structure is able to maintain its state.
It's amazing really. The balance of how much the powerful can screw the unempowered is at the exact right threshold to keep the powerful in power while not quite pushing the masses to the point of revolution.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:12:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
filename
Submitted by HotWillie (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:12:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 Vlad the Impaler
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2006-07-30 21:06:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Such is life