Why ETS is worse than Fred Phelps (1597 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: -0.15 on 64 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Spencer Thompson (View user info) at 2006-08-12 14:00:11 EDT
I don't do this often so please, so by all means ETS, feel special. In ETS' last post where he reveals himself to be a pompous dick with with Red Bull for spinal fluid. I think the answer to the reason why ETS is insane is that while we have little thingies in our brain that tell us "Hey, that's fucking crazy" ETS has a small vibrator, of the erotic variety, that stimulates the "be crazy" portion of his brain every time someone says the word "Bush."
My stance on this is very clear. Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays. And I mean just thursdays. The government can't keep the DMV open more than one day a week and yet it's managing to somehow put together an impossibly complicated conspiracy that involves technical feats not yet accomplished by man as well as the complicity and silence of thousands of people with Dateline on their speeddial. You know what? It didn't happen. I'm sorry. Maybe you don't trust the government to not do it, but I don't trust the government to be able to pull it off.
I don't even need to provide a link debunking the video fact-by-fact. If yoyu even get to the point where you're thinking "I need someone to explain this rationally for me, because there might be something to it" you're lost. Gone. I'm waving goodbye. But if you simply must find out, for entertainment purposes, they're all over Google Do a search.
Any way, the reason I made this post is about why ETS is worse than Fred Phelps. I told him this in his last post and replied to the same message twice, nine minutes apart, because in the middle of the first message his vibrator battery died and had to be replaced.
"Too bad I don't know who Fred Phelps is. Too bad I don't know who Fred Phelps is."
Ok Mr. Watches-The-News, Fred Phelps is a the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, a radical group of religious conservatives who go around protesting soldiers funerals and screenings of The Laramie Project because they believe God is punishing us for the safe housing we give to homosexuals. Now, the reasons why ETS is worse than Fred Phelps are varied and you might not agree with me, due to my reasoning, but that's fine you don't have to...
Fred Phelps believes God is telling him to do this. Now, God is something that billions in the world believe in and, by nature, He cannot be explaioned by facts. God can act entirely without regard for logic and functionality simply for the fact that he's God and he can. Following this line of reasoning, it's insane to think God is telling you to do these things, but what factual evidence am I going to put forth to prove that your God doesn't exist and isn't telling you these things? I don't believe it, but I can't make any argument to Fred Phelps, personally.
Now, ETS's arguments are much mroe based in fact. All people within his scenario are not God, and therefore, by everyone's standards, must act within logic, physics, math, how colors work, all those fundamental laws and theories. Now, despite this, even when presented with a point-by-point rebuttal to his claims, he continues to believe them. This makes ETS and Phelps equally insane, but ETS incredibly more retarded.
Once again, you don't necessarily have to agree with my reasoning. It's a bit of a reach, I know, but I see it, at least.
Anyway, this post was worthless, so here's a picture of my dog wearing a bow tie:
User Reviews
Submitted by JDL (user info) at 2006-08-14 17:16:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You are one of the Sacred Cattle.
Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-14 14:37:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-08-14 11:01:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
Techinically possible that the govt had a hand in it is a very far cry from saying that the US govt planted explosives in the WTC towers. Which is what ETS is claiming as fact. He distracts from any real argument or reasonable discussion because of this absurd belief.
===
I'm not arguing his case - I'm arguing against spooner's assertion that it would have been "impossible" for the government to do it. If you want a reasonable discussion, lets have one.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-08-14 11:30:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Cool dog...who's the lardass next to him?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-08-14 11:01:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 17:56:55 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-08-12 17:36:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Either way, it's possible for a ragtag grup of muslims to pull it off and not the US government because the muslims would not have had to worry about constructing drones, paying people to keep quiet, and all that other shit. Their plan consists of:
1. Learn to fly planes.
2. Hijack planes.
3. Crash planes.
===
If it's perfectly possible for a terrorist organisation to plan, keep secret and then execute the plot, then it is perfectly possible for the government to do the same.
You don't think Al Qaeda would have to maintain extreme secrecy and possibly pay people off to keep the plot under wraps? Who has the larger pockets and greater sphere of influence? You don't think the massive financial reward for ratting out terrorist plots offered by western governments would be an incentive for someone within or on the fringes of Al Qaeda to blow the whistle? You don't think a known terrorist organisation was under more surveillance than a supposedly democratic (yes, jay, its actually a republic, we know), freedom-espousing government? You don't think governments have had decades of practice in keeping shady affairs secret and and distributing information only on a 'need to know' basis?
Come on dude. Cheeked tongue or no, and regardless of whether you believe it happened or not, you have to admit it is technically possible that the government could have had a hand in it.
----------------------------
Techinically possible that the govt had a hand in it is a very far cry from saying that the US govt planted explosives in the WTC towers. Which is what ETS is claiming as fact. He distracts from any real argument or reasonable discussion because of this absurd belief.
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2006-08-14 09:55:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
post a bigger pic
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2006-08-14 09:38:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Who's ETS?
Who's Fred Phelps?
What?
Submitted by JoeyG (user info) at 2006-08-14 04:19:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
-2 for talking about 9/11 conspiracies, it just encourages them to come up with more
+1 for insulting someone who talks about 9/11 conspiracies
+2 for the dog with the bow tie!
Submitted by WingedFoote (user info) at 2006-08-14 00:27:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 'cause anything bashing ETS is alright by me...
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-13 15:10:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-08-13 14:08:03 (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS and this 9-11 bullshit has ruined this site more than anything in the past as far as I'm concerned. There are no less than fucking 5 posts on the front page about 9-11 or ETS for the last 4 months.
---------------------
http://www.ubersite.com/m/91173
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-13 14:13:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-08-13 14:08:03 (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS and this 9-11 bullshit has ruined this site more than anything in the past as far as I'm concerned. There are no less than fucking 5 posts on the front page about 9-11 or ETS for the last 4 months.
===
And you just encouraged one by commenting and +2ing it. Nice work.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2006-08-13 14:08:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS and this 9-11 bullshit has ruined this site more than anything in the past as far as I'm concerned. There are no less than fucking 5 posts on the front page about 9-11 or ETS for the last 4 months.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-08-13 13:55:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You're right, this post was worthless.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-13 12:59:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Maltese (user info) at 2006-08-13 12:41:15 (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't measure by how many people they've killed -- I measure them by how purely EVIL they are.
Stalin killed a few million more people, but at least he did it slightly more humanely.
====
Yeah, being deported to the siberian wastelands was like going to eurodisney.
What?
Submitted by Maltese (user info) at 2006-08-13 12:41:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by GDR (user info) at 2006-08-12 16:04:48 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Maltese (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:36:18 (#)
Ranking: 0
ETS is NOT worse than Fred Phelps. I rank Fred Phelps third on my list of 10 most evil people ever:
1. Adolf Hitler (for obvious reasons)
2. Idi Amin (Ugandan dictator who killed and ate over 300,000 people)
3. Fred Phelps (Child abuser, murderer, cult leader, uses the word of God to preach hate)
4. Richard Chase (San Francicso serial killer who killed babies, raped their corpses, and drank their blood while forcing their parents to watch)
5. Josef Mengele (Auschwitz "doctor" who conducted unspeakably cruel "experiments" on Jewish prisoners)
6. Heinrich Himmler (High-ranking officer in the Nazi army, best friend of Adolf Hitler; oversaw the Holocaust)
7. Osama bin Laden (Carried out the 9/11 attacks that killed over three thousand people)
8. Jeffrey Dahmer (Milwaukee serial killer who decapitated 17 men and had sex with their severed heads)
9. Pol Pot (Cambodian dictator, responsible for the deaths of about five million people)
10. Gaetan Dugas (Canadian flight attendant who purposefully spread AIDS to over 3,000 men; it is estimated that six million AIDS deaths can be traced to him)
Read this:
http://blank.org/addict/chapter9.html
----------------------------------
Might wanna add Stalin to that list buddy, considering he killed more people than hitler ever did.
----
I don't measure by how many people they've killed -- I measure them by how purely EVIL they are.
Stalin killed a few million more people, but at least he did it slightly more humanely.
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2006-08-13 11:56:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by paint_it_black (user info) at 2006-08-13 04:38:12 (#)
Ranking: 0
My stance on this is very clear. Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays. And I mean just thursdays. The government can't keep the DMV open more than one day a week and yet it's managing to somehow put together an impossibly complicated conspiracy that involves technical feats not yet accomplished by man as well as the complicity and silence of thousands of people with Dateline on their speeddial.
_-----------------------------------
you are so fucking stupid, perhaps the very reason the dmv is only working one day a week is because everyone is busy holding the 9/11 fallout together
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or that it's run by an inept government corrupted at the very core that has no ability to do anything on a large scale.
Submitted by Jesus_Loves_TwEE (user info) at 2006-08-13 10:26:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by paint_it_black (user info) at 2006-08-13 04:38:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My stance on this is very clear. Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays. And I mean just thursdays. The government can't keep the DMV open more than one day a week and yet it's managing to somehow put together an impossibly complicated conspiracy that involves technical feats not yet accomplished by man as well as the complicity and silence of thousands of people with Dateline on their speeddial.
_-----------------------------------
you are so fucking stupid, perhaps the very reason the dmv is only working one day a week is because everyone is busy holding the 9/11 fallout together
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-13 04:35:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-08-13 04:03:05 (#)
Ranking: 0
i have actually addressed ets in this sort of vein before, rob, and he has said that he agreed, or atl east could see the validity of most of what i was saying. i was going to elaborate further upon it, so as to hopefully help him to see the error of his ways.
if i can be fucked i'll get around to it, and you, like pretty much everyone who has taken issue with me about something ive said on this site, will gradually come around.
---
hehe.
Weak.
Pretty much what I thought. Oh well. I won't hold my breath... mostly because I don't really care.
Your intellectual apathy is annoying. This whole smug persona you have distastefully embraced is downright painful. Although I gotta admit I do kinda dig it.
Showing up and forecasting your eventual greatness is getting old though. I think you can do it. I look forward to reading all about it when you do. I'll reserve judgment until then.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-08-13 04:03:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i have actually addressed ets in this sort of vein before, rob, and he has said that he agreed, or atl east could see the validity of most of what i was saying. i was going to elaborate further upon it, so as to hopefully help him to see the error of his ways.
if i can be fucked i'll get around to it, and you, like pretty much everyone who has taken issue with me about something ive said on this site, will gradually come around.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-13 02:52:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-08-12 22:35:31 (#)
Ranking: 0
I was actually thinking of doing a similar post, and then i saw this and thought "oh, well, no point now". However, you really haven't done a good enough job of it, and you've missed the point.
---
So what?
You're still going to right? You THINK he missed the point? He near as much outright said he did. So what point do you think there is on this one captain Mc Smuggypants?
Just stopping in to show off yer internet dick size? Little drive-by assholeishness?
Honestly, I have never met someone so lazily arrogant in my whole life. I think it's a good bit - but seriously dude, let's see you back your shit up. You strut around here with yer big brain acting so cool, but you don't ever seem to do much more than spray your negative condescending bullshit around this site. Well now is your big chance.
I sincerely hope you make such a post. I look forward to it.
SOUPS ON BITCHES. (...to borrow a phrase coined by one of my uberIdols.)
(...and note that I spell checked your stupid shit smarty-pants. It's called punctuation mother fucker.)
(...actually without spell check I spell like a 9 year old autistic midget.)
Anyways. You. Go. Make post... with haste.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-08-13 01:19:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fred Phelps makes teh baby Jebus, cute little bunny rabbits, and my cat sad.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-13 00:56:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Dude.
ETS is whaco like Jacko.
And you think Phelps NATIONAL image is bad, you should see how people feel about him here in Colorado.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-08-12 22:35:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i was actually thinking of doing a similar post, then i saw this and thought "oh, well, no point now". however, you really havent done a good enough job of it, and youve missed the point.
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-08-12 22:05:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:15:06 (#)
Ranking: -2
That's how they've been presented in the media so that is what we can safely assume the majority of the american population believe. We're talking about why people believe one thing and not another - which means we're talking about perception, not objective reality. Apparently you didn't pick up on that.
--
My bad for yelling at you, Filthy, but my point is people were trying to warn us about a growing threat for years and most people ignored it, including some in the oval office who were too busy getting blowjobs.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-08-12 22:01:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Sorry, DC, but your twisted rhetoric in rebuttal to Filthy is so full of
holes I could use it to drain my pasta.
WHAT are you doing? Can't say? Well, then stfu.
You really think 9/11 (notice how I got it right, as opposed to you?) was done by the U.S.?
WHY? If you believe it, tell us, ya fucking retard.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-12 22:00:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I was just saying, you seem to want to change the world. So do it.
Don't be scared of failure, or think what can I do. If you're willing to try, and really put your back into it, then you're half way there already.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:57:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Bah. I'm off.
But first.
1. I have no evidence, I spoke to someone I trusted who claimed to be in the know.
Everything he said makes sense, he had no reason to lie and I believed him, its a simple as that.
He's dead now, accidental death apparently. Seems a bit of a coincedence.
2. I plan on setting up my own country, sort of. Population roughly 1000.
Thats sort of accurate, I'm not going into details, if Ubers still running when people start living there I'll probably explain more, but don't hold your breath.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:48:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:30:59 (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh what is it with you recently...
===
I've run out of cigarettes.
===
I know I went a bit speechy, but I'm pretty sure I said that I am doing something.
===
Yes, "something". What though? I'm genuinely curious and being mystically vague just won't cut it. And why won't you disclose why you think the government brought the towers down?
===
I don't know you, and you certainly don't know me but I get the impression that you need to accept that you screwed up. You have potential but you have to admit that you've made a big mess of your life so far, you have to stop being so defensive and so worried about convincing yourself and other people of how you're better than most people.
I don't know you, if I was you I'd probably start my response by saying 'no, you dont know me'.
I'm probably wrong about you, but this is my best guess. Sometimes it is helpful to see what impression people get even if it is wrong.
Anyone with half a brain can go far if they're willing to work hard and to just seriously try. But you can't spend time worrying about what people think, worrying that people think you don't care what they think. you can't make it seem like you were headed towards this all along. You have to accept that your life so far has been wasted no matter how much you have 'experienced'. And start afresh.
===
.......well that was surreal. I'm wondering if I should know what you're talking about - what did i screw up?
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:36:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think I may have to use the vibrator analogy and OMG A DOG WITH A BOWTIE!!!! I MEAN WTF< IT"S A DOG BUT IT"S WEARING A BOWTIE!! WHAR IS IT THINKING IT IS GOING TO A DOG WEDDING OR SOMETHING?!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!1 HOLEE OVERSIZED FUCK I FIND THIS SIMPLY PRESPROSPEROUS!!
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:30:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"I find it strangely fascinating that you can't discuss this or indeed any political issue without drawing a comparison between yourself & ETS and stressing that you are better than him."
Oh what is it with you recently...this is a post about ETS, thats why I mention him, if you haven't noticed he is rather the main topic of conversation around here at the minute.
"You seriously underestimate his intelligence - he's smarter than me and I'm sure as shit smarter than you."
I am very arrogant, but I keep it to myself, or try to and I don't go around telling people I've never met that I'm a lot smarter than them, no matter what I think.
"If you think that he is doing a bad job, why don't you do a better one?"
What are you even talking about? what are you suggesting? that I should start trying to convince people that 11/9 was a conspiracy over the internet? did you even read what I wrote...I know I went a bit speechy, but I'm pretty sure I said that I am doing something.
If Brad wants to change the world then he should DO SOMETHING. Ranting about the twin towers isn't going to do anything.
I don't know you, and you certainly don't know me but I get the impression that you need to accept that you screwed up. You have potential but you have to admit that you've made a big mess of your life so far, you have to stop being so defensive and so worried about convincing yourself and other people of how you're better than most people.
I don't know you, if I was you I'd probably start my response by saying 'no, you dont know me'.
I'm probably wrong about you, but this is my best guess. Sometimes it is helpful to see what impression people get even if it is wrong.
Anyone with half a brain can go far if they're willing to work hard and to just seriously try. But you can't spend time worrying about what people think, worrying that people think you don't care what they think. you can't make it seem like you were headed towards this all along. You have to accept that your life so far has been wasted no matter how much you have 'experienced'. And start afresh.
Hate me. I would. I'm a right bastard. But I will change the world. And the difference is that I don't care that these replies I'm writing make me sound stupid, because it isn't about winning or what random internet people think of me or you or Brad, I'm just trying to give some advice.
You wont take it.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:15:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:09:27 (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:15:19 (#)
Ranking: -2
"...a ragtag affiliation of middle-easterners..."
--
That is part of the problem right there.
Billions of dollars are filtered to these guys, they have connections, support and endorsement world-wide, and you call them ragtag?
===
That's how they've been presented in the media so that is what we can safely assume the majority of the american population believe. We're talking about why people believe one thing and not another - which means we're talking about perception, not objective reality. Apparently you didn't pick up on that.
Submitted by whysenheimer (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:14:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The guy below me is below me, and he'll below you, too!
Submitted by Jack_McCallum (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:09:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:15:19 (#)
Ranking: -2
"...a ragtag affiliation of middle-easterners..."
--
That is part of the problem right there.
Billions of dollars are filtered to these guys, they have connections, support and endorsement world-wide, and you call them ragtag?
Jesus Christ, get a grip on reality.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 21:08:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-12 20:35:26 (#)
Ranking: -2
I am willing to admit the possibility, indeed for reasons I will not go into I honesty beleive that the usa govt. caused the twin towers to collapse.
But that doesn't mean I agree with Brad, I've said it before; he IS the straw man.
All his arguments are stupid, all his evidence is wrong. He isn't helping here.
If Brad really wants to change the world he should worry more about where and how he lives, and the people he associates with. I don't think the POTUS is going to effect peoples lives 100 years from now, I can't see people caring who sits in the white house because I can't see anyone getting near it if they intend to stop people running their own lives.
Call me an idealist, though what I see is far from ideal, but at least I have a plan, at least I am working towards something that will change the world. Maybe not for you, but for me, and and people I know or will know, I'm going to make the world a better place.
And thats more than Brad can say, until he stops shouting at the thunder.
===
I find it strangely fascinating that you can't discuss this or indeed any political issue without drawing a comparison between yourself & ETS and stressing that you are better than him.
Why is that? If he's truely that stupid or that insignificant why do you constantly waste your time talking to and about him? You seriously underestimate his intelligence - he's smarter than me and I'm sure as shit smarter than you.
If you think that he is doing a bad job, why don't you do a better one? I've got more criticism for some of his tactics than anyone here but I'm starting to get really sick of the volume of people who are happy to deride his efforts without making any of their own.
"For reasons I will not go into", eh? Copout.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-08-12 20:55:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Comparing ETS to Fred Phelps shows a total lack of intelligence.
Whatever reasons you give for this comparison are foolish, as are you.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-12 20:35:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"If it's perfectly possible for a terrorist organisation to plan, keep secret and then execute the plot, then it is perfectly possible for the government to do the same."
That doesn't work unless the terrorists did it without anyone (apart from ETS) finding out about it.
Completely different things. I am willing to admit the possibility, indeed for reasons I will not go into I honesty beleive that the usa govt. caused the twin towers to collapse.
But that doesn't mean I agree with Brad, I've said it before; he IS the straw man.
All his arguments are stupid, all his evidence is wrong. He isn't helping here.
You know what 'the people' are going to do about it? Nothing. Cos nothing will ever be prooved absolute, 'the people' aren't going to be persuaded that Bush did it, cos they don't want it to be so.
We can only work to change the future, its too late to change things that have already happened, its too late to stop things that are already happening, but maybe, just maybe, in ten or twenty or forty years things will begin to change.
I see terrorism becoming more and more commonplace, but never succeeding.
I see devolution into seperate city states. I see the death of religion, and a cure for all ills.
I see big change coming, but not from governments, from the people.
Democracy is going to conquer the world, and as democracy stays more and more and more and more it doesn't matter shit who wins the election, because all and any parties will be the limp middle ground not trying to offend anyone.
If Brad really wants to change the world he should worry more about where and how he lives, and the people he associates with. I don't think the POTUS is going to effect peoples lives 100 years from now, I can't see people caring who sits in the white house because I can't see anyone getting near it if they intend to stop people running their own lives.
Call me an idealist, though what I see is far from ideal, but at least I have a plan, at least I am working towards something that will change the world. Maybe not for you, but for me, and and people I know or will know, I'm going to make the world a better place.
And thats more than Brad can say, until he stops shouting at the thunder.
That is a big picture.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 19:47:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:46:11 (#)
Ranking: 0
The hard part for the government isn't doing it, it's making everyone think they didn't. That's the difficult part.
===
I don't think that's really that difficult and, perhaps contraversially, I don't think it's even that necessary. I'd wager almost everyone's first response to the suggestion that the government would willingly kill their own people to justify a war to secure oil and clamp down on civil liberties is one of scorn and utter disbelief - we naturally assume that our government and our country are going to look after us, that they are in some sense a benevolent entity who may sometimes kill people but only because those people are bad and only because they're protecting us. There is a massive psychological resistence to the idea that the people you put in power view your life as expendable, because it's a fucking terrifying thought. The will to not want to believe it does half of the work before a cover-up even has to begin.
Most people (and it's always only going to be 'most people' that they would have to worry about) are going to believe what the mainstream media tells them without question. And the mainstream media is very easily controlled. Look at what percentage of americans still believe Iraq had WMDs when we invaded - even this far down the line when the government has admitted it was a lie....sorry, a 'mistake'.
Is it not possible that, say, the CIA, a group with a long history of acts of genocide, drug trafficking and the installation of puppet governments in other countries, could put those skills and that secrecy to use in america? I'm not talking about the specific details of Loose Change here, more the general possibility of government involvement. How many americans do you think really know the kind of shit the CIA get up to? And how many of those actually care enough to take an active opposition to it?
You might say no-one would be immoral enough to go along with such a scheme, but I think history proves that people would - its possible to sell something to someone as resulting in a 'greater good' or manipulate their fears or their herd-following instincts to get them to do some really fucked up shit. You have to assume that the extremely high level government/military people who would be involved in this would have something to gain from it and would also be very aware of what the potential consequences of disobedience would be.
Anyone who did attempt to expose it or came close to stumbling across it would be on the fringes and would merely have to be publically ridiculed and personally discredited - which again isn't that difficult - most people have skeletons in their closet and mistruths are easily spread by the public appetite for scandal. Nobody wants to be lumped in with someone who is seen as crazy or has scorn poured upon them - the discouragement of "person A believes this and person A is a twat" will make most people think twice before joining them out on the same limb.
Let's even take it a step further and assume people know that something horrendous went down - what are they, realistically, going to do about it? If a government is prepared to commit such an act then all bets are off and the common man has no recourse but the vote (which we've already seen can be easily manipulated) or to publically protest (which is easily stamped out in the name of law and order.) Who would come to the american people's aid against the most powerful military force in the world? People would simply keep their head down and try to stay out of trouble in order to protect themselves and their families. People really are that easily controlled.
I'm not bothered whether you think the government was involved or not. Shit, I don't know exactly where I stand on it myself. But when you discount something that is not only possible but has some measure of historical precedent before you even start thinking about it, then you're just adding to the exact same climate of ignorance that allows this type of fucked up shit to happen.
====
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:41:49 (#)
Ranking: 0
...the bumbling idiocy of George W. Bush...
===
I don't actually think Bush is an idiot. A cunt, maybe, but he's not stupid. He's giving the majority of the population what they want - and that's someone they can see as the 'common man'...someone who might stumble over their words occassionally and isn't some hoighty-toighty intellectual with their nose stuck in a book. If you think of him as a retard, it takes away a measure of culpability for the horrendous shit he is happily allowing, encouraging and orchestrating on his watch.
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:46:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"If it's perfectly possible for a terrorist organisation to plan, keep secret and then execute the plot, then it is perfectly possible for the government to do the same."
It's not the same thing. The terrorists would only need to do it. The hard part for the government isn't doing it, it's making everyone think they didn't. That's the difficult part. That's a part that the terrorists didn't even need to consider, and for the government, that would be the bulk of its work. It's possible for terrorists to hijack a plane and crach it into a building. It's not possible for the government to do it and get the thousands of people involved to keep quiet about it while perfectly staging the scenes and keeping anyone from proving they did it.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:41:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:21:11 (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:12:00 (#)
Ranking: 0
===
Nobody is saying that they weren't capable. The point is that if a rag-tag group is capable, then the government/military of the most powerful country in the world certainly is. To claim that a group with a motherlode of resources and experience is somehow less efficient than a bunch of guys hiding out in caves is ridiculous, although you wouldn't know it from the legions of idiots posting maddox links all over the site as though the opinion of a smartass with questionable cartooning skills is a substitute for rational thought.
---
Oh I think there are a few people floating around out there who firmly believe they were not capable of doing it... and certainly not alone.
I completely agree with your particular reasoning that given overall motive and means the more likely candidate for this particular tragedy would be some nefarious manipulative section of the government that specializes in fucking the world over.
Further to that, it's downright dangerous to equate the bumbling idiocy of George W. Bush and the local retards handing out licenses with the brilliant capacity for evil the upper echelons of the various governmental agencies truly have.
People almost revel in their simplistic ignorance... it's less scary that way. The real world is filled with all sorts of horrible shit - it's really far easier for us not to think about "it" and just continue to flip through the channels.
Ultimately my point is "who gives a shit about the specific details"? We tend to get lost in them. Our governments fucking suck. They are failing us all over this planet.
We need to do something about that. Soonish.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:21:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:12:00 (#)
Ranking: 0
Alright Mr. Spooner,
You are saying its possible that a rag-tag group of Muslims pulled it off.
I think that is entirely possible as well.
===
Nobody is saying that they weren't capable. The point is that if a rag-tag group is capable, then the government/military of the most powerful country in the world certainly is. To claim that a group with a motherlode of resources and experience is somehow less efficient than a bunch of guys hiding out in caves is ridiculous, although you wouldn't know it from the legions of idiots posting maddox links all over the site as though the opinion of a smartass with questionable cartooning skills is a substitute for rational thought.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-12 18:12:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Alright Mr. Spooner,
You are saying its possible that a rag-tag group of Muslims pulled it off.
I think that is entirely possible as well. HOWEVER, the more shit that gets uncovered, the more questions that get asked, the more coincidences get compared, the more I sit and examine the entire situation... its quite obvious that there is much more going on than we know.
And I think that is bullshit.
Conspiracy theorists like Mr. Tooth are certainly at least somewhat insane... but at the root of it most of them simply want the general public to wake the fuck up.
Is that such a horrible request?
Even beyond the 9-11 debacle "we the people" tolerate/enable:
The occupation of Iraq.
The violation of multiple international treaties and agreements.
The erosion of personal rights and liberties.
Record debt and deficit spending.
Inexplicable and poorly justified tax breaks.
Deplorable Environmental Standards
Substandard and under-funded educational systems.
Poorly executed Social Programs.
A crippling dependence on oil.
The list continues... and it all points to the fact that we need to change the way we do things.
Period.
We DO need to wake up and stop letting our governments get away with such horrible fucking bullshit.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 17:56:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-08-12 17:36:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Either way, it's possible for a ragtag grup of muslims to pull it off and not the US government because the muslims would not have had to worry about constructing drones, paying people to keep quiet, and all that other shit. Their plan consists of:
1. Learn to fly planes.
2. Hijack planes.
3. Crash planes.
===
If it's perfectly possible for a terrorist organisation to plan, keep secret and then execute the plot, then it is perfectly possible for the government to do the same.
You don't think Al Qaeda would have to maintain extreme secrecy and possibly pay people off to keep the plot under wraps? Who has the larger pockets and greater sphere of influence? You don't think the massive financial reward for ratting out terrorist plots offered by western governments would be an incentive for someone within or on the fringes of Al Qaeda to blow the whistle? You don't think a known terrorist organisation was under more surveillance than a supposedly democratic (yes, jay, its actually a republic, we know), freedom-espousing government? You don't think governments have had decades of practice in keeping shady affairs secret and and distributing information only on a 'need to know' basis?
Come on dude. Cheeked tongue or no, and regardless of whether you believe it happened or not, you have to admit it is technically possible that the government could have had a hand in it.
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-08-12 17:36:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm talking in terms of pure batfuck insanity. End result, Fred Phelps is more damaging. And aside from those, this post is not really meant to be taken as a serious evaluation, so don't worry about it. Cheeked tongue.
Either way, it's possible for a ragtag grup of muslims to pull it off and not the US government because the muslims would not have had to worry about constructing drones, paying people to keep quiet, and all that other shit. Their plan consists of:
1. Learn to fly planes.
2. Hijack planes.
3. Crash planes.
Granted, a little bit simplified, but a hell of a lot simpler than what the US government would have had to have done if Loose Change were entirely correct in all their assumptions.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 16:45:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:15:57 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by resignator (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:38:11 (#)
Ranking: -2
Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you argue about something without looking at any of the facts in the first place? This is your logic? The DMV is run by the state not federal government. I dont think any 911 skeptic is claiming the entire federal government is corrupt either. """
your use of alters is hilariously clumsy.
===
This guy, whoever he is, was posting on uber whilst we were roadtripping round the midwest without internet access. Guess again, Sherlock.
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2006-08-12 16:40:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I love Fred Phelps, the guy hasn't done anything illegal, and yet he's more "evil" than the man who directed the holocaust and a guy who killed and raped babies and drank their blood while their parents watched. Fred Phelps makes me proud to be an american, that a cult leader walks free while others who have done less deplorable things sit in jail. He takes full advantage of freedom of speech and every one of his "god given" American rights. I emplore my fellow americans to take up his level of exercizing freedoms. Stage a protest of his protesting. Say the most racist thing you can think of to a person of a different ethnicity, like you'd say "Isn't it great to be alive" , then just walk away as if you had said "Good morning." I don't like what the man does, but I'll be damned if I criticize him if he hasn't broken any laws.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-08-12 16:21:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by goferforhire (user info) at 2006-08-12 16:12:49 (#)
Ranking: -2
Fred Phelps is the only human being alive that I would not be entirely surprise if he were revealed to be the anti-Christ.
-------------------
Amen!
Submitted by goferforhire (user info) at 2006-08-12 16:12:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Fred Phelps is the only human being alive that I would not be entirely surprise if he were revealed to be the anti-Christ.
ETS is just a political radical with more booksmarts than common sense.
In other words... I really would have thought that you of all people would have known better than this.
Submitted by GDR (user info) at 2006-08-12 16:04:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Maltese (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:36:18 (#)
Ranking: 0
ETS is NOT worse than Fred Phelps. I rank Fred Phelps third on my list of 10 most evil people ever:
1. Adolf Hitler (for obvious reasons)
2. Idi Amin (Ugandan dictator who killed and ate over 300,000 people)
3. Fred Phelps (Child abuser, murderer, cult leader, uses the word of God to preach hate)
4. Richard Chase (San Francicso serial killer who killed babies, raped their corpses, and drank their blood while forcing their parents to watch)
5. Josef Mengele (Auschwitz "doctor" who conducted unspeakably cruel "experiments" on Jewish prisoners)
6. Heinrich Himmler (High-ranking officer in the Nazi army, best friend of Adolf Hitler; oversaw the Holocaust)
7. Osama bin Laden (Carried out the 9/11 attacks that killed over three thousand people)
8. Jeffrey Dahmer (Milwaukee serial killer who decapitated 17 men and had sex with their severed heads)
9. Pol Pot (Cambodian dictator, responsible for the deaths of about five million people)
10. Gaetan Dugas (Canadian flight attendant who purposefully spread AIDS to over 3,000 men; it is estimated that six million AIDS deaths can be traced to him)
Read this:
http://blank.org/addict/chapter9.html
----------------------------------
Might wanna add Stalin to that list buddy, considering he killed more people than hitler ever did.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:53:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fred Phelphs really makes you question freedom of speech and the ethics involved of it.
Because of my belief in freedom of speech, I have to defend Phelps' right to do and say what he does.
But in allowing him to do what he does, how many people are hurt because of it?
Slippery slope.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:26:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:15:57 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by resignator (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:38:11 (#)
Ranking: -2
Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you argue about something without looking at any of the facts in the first place? This is your logic? The DMV is run by the state not federal government. I dont think any 911 skeptic is claiming the entire federal government is corrupt either. """
your use of alters is hilariously clumsy.
---
Either way... that is still a pretty good point.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:15:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by resignator (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:38:11 (#)
Ranking: -2
Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you argue about something without looking at any of the facts in the first place? This is your logic? The DMV is run by the state not federal government. I dont think any 911 skeptic is claiming the entire federal government is corrupt either. """
your use of alters is hilariously clumsy.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:15:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays. And I mean just thursdays."
The "it's too complex for the government to pull off" point of view is not an unreasonable one, but you're making it ridiculous with this example because, in order to be in any way comparable, it has to assume that having your local DMV open more than one day a week is of massive political and financial gain to the key players in the federal government and the multinational corporations that back them.
Clearly, that isn't the case.
What I'd like you to consider is this. Why is it completely plausible that a ragtag affiliation of middle-easterners could organise this and yet you think it is beyond the grasp of the highest funded and probably most advanced military in the world?
I don't know what part, if any, the american government played in the events of 9/11. But if the crux of your argument boils down to the question of which of these two groups, the top of the american military tree or Al Qaeda, is a more plausible candiate, we have to ask ourselves two key questions - who is most capable and who has the most to gain. And if you answer Al Qaeda to either of those, well, good grief.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-12 15:14:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
meh...
Seems like a pretty absurd statement no matter how you try and justify it.
I admit that I had no idea who this Fred Phelps fellow was when you motioned him... but a quick google search cleared that up.
And all I can say is: really?
You think someone who puts their head down and does their absolute best to barf out as much conspiratorial goodness as they possibly can is even comparable to someone who actively spreads such vile hatred and intolerance... someone who holds people accountable for their willful ignorance or someone who discriminates against folks who are insufficiently anti-homosexual?
Give your head a shake, man.
Sure Mr. Tooth can be annoying and preachy at times... but he is not even in the same category as that vile, detestable human being.
Submitted by Laser (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:59:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I live in England and this the first time I've ever heard of Fred Phelps, and it sounds as though ETS isn't as bad as him.
Though I don't think much of ETS.
Submitted by HighVoltage900 (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:41:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
You know what, you make a point.
And people need to realize that how hateful Fred Phelps is isn't what you are talking about. You are talking about how "CRAZY" he is. You can be slightly crazy (or hell even perfectly sane) and be the most hated person on earth.
Submitted by resignator (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:38:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Before looking at a single fact, it's impossible the government could have covered up 9-11. Why? Because my town's DMV is open thursdays.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How can you argue about something without looking at any of the facts in the first place? This is your logic? The DMV is run by the state not federal government. I dont think any 911 skeptic is claiming the entire federal government is corrupt either.
Submitted by Maltese (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:36:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ETS is NOT worse than Fred Phelps. I rank Fred Phelps third on my list of 10 most evil people ever:
1. Adolf Hitler (for obvious reasons)
2. Idi Amin (Ugandan dictator who killed and ate over 300,000 people)
3. Fred Phelps (Child abuser, murderer, cult leader, uses the word of God to preach hate)
4. Richard Chase (San Francicso serial killer who killed babies, raped their corpses, and drank their blood while forcing their parents to watch)
5. Josef Mengele (Auschwitz "doctor" who conducted unspeakably cruel "experiments" on Jewish prisoners)
6. Heinrich Himmler (High-ranking officer in the Nazi army, best friend of Adolf Hitler; oversaw the Holocaust)
7. Osama bin Laden (Carried out the 9/11 attacks that killed over three thousand people)
8. Jeffrey Dahmer (Milwaukee serial killer who decapitated 17 men and had sex with their severed heads)
9. Pol Pot (Cambodian dictator, responsible for the deaths of about five million people)
10. Gaetan Dugas (Canadian flight attendant who purposefully spread AIDS to over 3,000 men; it is estimated that six million AIDS deaths can be traced to him)
Read this:
http://blank.org/addict/chapter9.html
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:31:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
You're probably right, kk. Besides, ETS is much cuter than Fred.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:29:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:27:08 (#)
Ranking: -2
I just wanna feed ETS some of my prescription meds so he'll feel better.
------------------------------------------
I think all ETS needs is a hug or two.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:27:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:11:00 (#)
Ranking: 0
(h)is list of crimes, yes I call them crimes, is extensive. ETS, no matter what you think of him, is nothing like Phelps.
By comparing the two of them, you are actually showing respect to Phelps.
Phelps is worthy ONLY of our hatred, disgust, and anger.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have had complex fantasies about the brutal torture and eventual ignoble death of Phelps and his cult followers.
I just wanna feed ETS some of my prescription meds so he'll feel better.
This is perhaps the most deserved -2 I have ever given out. It makes me sad that I had to give it to you.
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:20:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
What do you think the government is DOING with the other six days?
Fred Phelps is batshit crazy but some of his followers are such sheep (surprise). Apparently, some like to have their picture taken enough that they forget their "mission" when a bunch of flamboyantly gay cast members in my friend's show, which they were picketing, convinced them to pose for pictures with them- thumbs up and all.
Submitted by JMG114 (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:18:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I do love me those weiner dogs.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Wow.
My first instinct was to -2 this but everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
But....
Man, I live in Kansas City Missouri. Phelps and his clan aren't very far away from us here. I have had the misfortune of seeing Phelps numerous times. That man is the epitomy of evil. You have a visceral reaction to him. This man pickets funerals of innocent people and screams to the bereaved that their loved one is burning in hell.
is list of crimes, yes I call them crimes, is extensive. ETS, no matter what you think of him, is nothing like Phelps.
By comparing the two of them, you are actually showing respect to Phelps.
Phelps is worthy ONLY of our hatred, disgust, and anger.
Submitted by Spooner (user info) at 2006-08-12 14:00:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
OMG THAT PICTURE IS FUGGIN HUGE I FORGOT TO RESIZE IT -2 -2 -2