Religious Ideology Offends Me (912 hits)
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Submitted by <Wing_Neo_Star_15.at.Yahoo.com> (View user info) at 2006-08-13 08:01:27 EDT
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." ~ Steven Weinberg
I'm sure most people would consider the title of this absurd. "How on earth? If anything, it's the depressing immorality of a putrid atheist that should be offensive! How could you take something as beautiful and caring as religion and say that it offends you? This could only come from an intolerant atheist trying to push their own anti-religious, pro-hate agenda, someone who hates good and only wants to propagate putrid filth for their own greedy ends."
Why would religious ideas offend me? How could religious ideas affect anyone?
I have a pretty good grasp of the Christian faith so that's what I'll be dealing with. I don't claim to understand every religion out there, so keep that in mind as you read. I'll also try to be as logical and concise as possible without drifting too much.
Religion hides under the façade of what I like to call common sense values. Love your family, treat your neighbor with respect, don't murder, don't steal, whatever. Why do I call these common sense values? These values can be derived from basic thinking and can exist (contrary to some religious scholars) completely outside of religious thought. Yes, these common sense values are nice, I will never say that you should murder and steal just to be anti-religious. The ideas that I hate come from deeper within a religious mindset. The driving force that sets religion apart from common sense.
"So you really think that God would plant a bunch of bones in the earth to test your faith? Either you're in denial or God has some serious self-esteem issues." ~ Coral Yoshi
"Why would some all powerful being create creatures capable of reason and then demand that they act in a manner contrary to their creation?" ~ Josh Charles
I'll be brief on this because I want this article to primarily address the philosophical atrocities of religion, but I can never pass up the opportunity to scientifically bash religion.
Ever since we discovered the Earth wasn't the center of the universe religion has done nothing but oppress scientific thought. Every new scientific discovery was another claim that religion had to let go. People were being healed by medicines and vaccines; not miracles and exorcists. Religion hasn't completely left the realm of science yet, unfortunately.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." ~ Daniel Boorstin
We now have people pushing "creation science" (that's an oxymoron if I ever saw one) in classrooms; people who oppose genetic modifications to better crop and beef turnouts; people against DNA research for the benefit of human lives. These religious ideologists cross the line from being people who believe in different ideas to people who have become obstacles for the betterment of human ideas. They have taken their fundamental religious ideas and have attempted to shove them down your throat.
Listen, I have no problem if you want to profess any of these ideas on a logical level, but when someone enters a scientific and social forum and begins a statement with "it's not natural to..." or "we're playing God when we..." you need to sit down and reconsider what you're trying to do: argue on a reasonable level or push a moral agenda?
"How difficult would it be for 11 men to hang a traitor, move a boulder, remove a body, and replace said boulder within a period of three days?" ~ Cogito
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile." ~ Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
There are also people who try to justify their belief in both God and the bible using science. These people almost always have a blatant disregard for the scientific process and will use any amount of double-speak and misinformation to preach to their uninformed choirs of religious drones.
There are a multitude of examples of misinformation that religious people will double-speak you with. Some people will tell you that atheism is a religion. That's almost like saying "healthy" is a type of disease. Others will tell you that Intelligent Design is a scientific theory when they forget that a scientific theory and a normal theory are entirely different things (scientific theories are hypothesis that have been tested a large number of times and have been seen to hold true in explaining a certain phenomenon). And yet some will try and tell you that the earth is only 6,000 years old!
"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense." ~ Chapman Cohen
"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'" ~ Douglas Adams
Like I said, I have no problem with your fucked up beliefs, just don't try to pass them off as science when it's painfully obvious that there is no scientific backing for them. The entire religious scientific movement works only by attempting to disprove existing evidence and offers absolutely no evidence of their own. You'll never see a religious person point out that our DNA is wrapped into the shape of the word "God" or that Jesus himself gives lectures every weekend at Harvard to recruit people for the Christian faith. There is no evidence for any religious scientific thought because religious scientific thought doesn't exist.
"I refuse to believe in a god that would send me to hell just for not believing in him." ~ Bob Snuka
"It's better to live in freedom for one life time than to be a slave of God for an eternity." ~ Mimoun Raddahi
When someone tells you to "tolerate" the religious beliefs of another person, do you realize that you're being asked to respect the beliefs of a person who thinks that you're going to suffer in hell for all of eternity for not believing in their god? Yeah, that's right. Some people might not tell you this up front, or even believe it themselves, but according to the catechism you're toast if you don't believe in God. So while you tolerate another person's belief, they condemn you to an eternity of hell. That sounds fair, right? Bullshit.
"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry
"The Christian god makes man human, then burns him when he acts like one." ~ HSM
The single biggest insult religion makes against people is that it is entirely derogatory towards humanity. Yes, religion degrades humanity. How? It devalues individual thought and human life.
"As long as you need an external entity to give credit to for wonderful things that happen to you or to blame for ugly things that happen to you, you need God." ~ Ravikiran
In my personal opinion, the most defining point in a person's life is when they come to love themselves and respect themselves as a person. It might not happen over night or at any single instant but once the person has crossed the line into this area there is no going back. It is the single most important journey a person can make in their entire life, and it is crucial for them to grow and mature into successful human beings. A person who is truly religious can not make this journey and remain true to his religion at the same time.
"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point." ~ Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." ~ George Bernard Shaw
How in the fuck can someone grow into a person like this when religion constantly tells us that we, as humans, are weak and powerless? Have you ever looked over the 12-step program? To admit to be "powerless" to a habit that you yourself developed is ridiculous! It's a slap in the face to human choice everywhere! How the hell can you create an organization with so many followers and get away with degrading them all so openly? Even during the Mass of a Christian they admit that they "are not worthy to receive [God]".
Any institution that puts another entity on par with or even above humanity in terms of "greatness" is an institution not worthy of existence. In Christianity's case, they put God above humanity. How can you believe in the existence of an all-powerful and loving God in a world where more than one child dies every five seconds, 16,000 a day, from hunger-related causes? Why would any religious person bitch about the ethics of Hiroshima when the ethics of their God allow for more people to die every four days due to hunger than the number of those killed in the Hiroshima bombing? Do you think "god has a plan"? Bullshit, unless that plan involves filling after-life space mighty fast. What about the 300 children that die every day during childbirth? Why couldn't I have been included in that group, too? Apparently I'm going to hell for being an atheist, but according to our beloved catechism all children go to Heaven. Does that mean those 300 potential sinners just got a free pass into Heaven? That's no fair!
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
Humans are beautiful creatures that have invented and created so much. We've crafted so many languages, so many societies, so many sciences, so many arts, so many ways of life. We've destroyed civilizations and we've rebuilt civilizations. Why do we need to attribute all of our actions to an imaginary higher power who has not even the decency to prove his existence to us? Why would he demand complete faith and obedience from a human civilization that he tortures and torments on a daily basis? Why should we trust in a God that won't even let us have peace on earth, but instead insists on us to put all of our faith into an otherworldly existence? We should sacrifice our lives on earth and subject them to suffering in the hopes of eternal happiness with one who can't even prove our efforts will be worth it?
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." ~ Albert Einstein
"Christ died for our sins. Dare we make his martyrdom meaningless by not committing them?" ~ Jules Feiffer
One of the most offensive ideas with religious people is that it assumes humans without religion are without morals. "Intellect, free will, objective morality and human rights as well as reason, logic, design and truth can exist only if God exists... atheists ... have no objective moral grounds... in a nontheistic world there are no rights." How am I supposed to tolerate a religion that tells me that I'm incapable of treating a person nicely without being told to by a compilation of fictional stories composed almost 2,000 years ago by a group of fallible, human men? A person who becomes religious will almost always be locked into a vicious religious cycle because, without religion, they have no values and no morals that they have affirmed and developed on their own. They're a reflection of their (blind) faith. That's depressingly pathetic, in my humble opinion.
Do you really need a set of rules to tell you that murdering is wrong?
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave." ~ William Drummond
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." ~ Seneca the Younger
Another thing that most people don't consider is that a person who is religious is really a person without actual morals. When a man of Christ sees an injured person dying off on the side of the road, the man stops and helps the person, but why? According to their belief, they stop and help the person because it is right with God, because it is what they have been taught from the Bible. This person has no other reason to be a good person other than because they are earning their final goal: eternal life in Heaven with God. It is how they identify most with Christ and how they work to become a good person in the eyes of their faith. For me to stop and help the person, I would be doing so because I have made a personal choice to love humanity and am willing to do whatever it takes to better humanity as a whole. Am I the only person disgusted by the fact that some people actually need someone, anyone?! to tell them that they should treat their fellow man kindly?
"Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled on behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy." ~ Ambrose Bierce
"Pray to God, fine; but keep rowing to shore." ~ Russian Proverb
"Prayers never bring anything... They may bring solace to the sap, the bigot, the ignorant, the aboriginal, and the lazy - but to the enlightened it is the same as asking Santa Claus to bring you something for Christmas." ~ W.C. Fields
Listen, I'm sick of being told that I'm supposed to tolerate a religion with such an offensive dogma. I don't know how it could have slipped by for so many years unnoticed or have so many consenting followers. Why are people so easily willing to degrade themselves to be a part of a religious organization? I believe firmly in that religion is a substitute for personal growth. Anyone who is incapable of maturing on their own must substitute religion for the vacuums in their life where they are unable to create morals and values. An organization that devalues human life by focusing so much on the afterlife. Why can't people just focus on the present, the now? The beauty of today?
It's kind of funny, too, that I would waste the time critiquing the offensiveness of a religion that offers zero evidence for its founding entity anyway.
~Steven
User Reviews
Submitted by Sockster (user info) at 2006-08-16 01:00:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'd like you to write and dedicate a story to me.
...
Submitted by Emridhs (user info) at 2006-08-15 02:50:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Sorry, I chose the wrong rank.
Submitted by Emridhs (user info) at 2006-08-15 02:49:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This reeks of someone shoving thier ideals down someone elses throat.
"Even during the Mass of a Christian they admit that they "are not worthy to receive [God]"."
I dont think that is meant in the context that your arguing. Now this isnt coming from a christian, but 13 years of forced catholic schoolism sort of rubs off on you. That comment in the Mass is probably more so to convey that the people acknowledge that they are not perfect. Though for a lot of people, its just lip service.
It is one thing to belittle yourself, quite another to admit your not perfect.
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-15 02:05:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"that thing about loving one another. I can't think of one creed that challenges us to take into account both the here and now, and the beauty of life more."
The beauty of here and now is to appreciate you and the fact that you can exist and experience so many different awesome things in life. My main reason why I don't believe that religion appreciates life "now" is because it seems as though too much emphasis is put on the afterlife. Like the most important thing about your life is that you can exist happily in the afterlife. You hear about this when you hear that "bad things happen, God will reward you with eternal happiness." I think it's unhealthy to think that -the most important things in life happen after life is over-. It's not cool to put so much emphasis on an afterlife.
That's where the comment comes from. That's why I don't think religious focuses on the here and now.
~Steven
Submitted by highersound (user info) at 2006-08-15 01:13:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My first rating has been downgraded, but this was very long piece,and at moments I'd give it a 2+ but you end on a low point. You claim to have a firm hold on Christianity, yet you seem to have forgotten that one most important underlying principle. We all know it, that thing about loving one another. I can't think of one creed that challenges us to take into account both the here and now, and the beauty of life more.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-15 00:55:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-15 00:26:29 (#)
Ranking: 2
How could a person not capable of concious thought be held responsible for their actions? It'd be like beating your husband to death for kicking you in bed while he's asleep. Or for drooling.
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I'm pretty sure drooling is a beatable offence.
Submitted by highersound (user info) at 2006-08-15 00:52:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Are you only attacking religious ideology, or Theists as a whole?
"Have you ever looked over the 12-step program? To admit to be "powerless" to a habit that you yourself developed is ridiculous!"
I used to abuse the shit out of drugs, alcohol, sex, money blah blah blah, and could not agree with you more on the above. I ended finding this place, the program focuses on choice, although there is a spiritual element....sorry :-) http://www.baldwinresearch.com
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-15 00:26:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
How could a person not capable of concious thought be held responsible for their actions? It'd be like beating your husband to death for kicking you in bed while he's asleep. Or for drooling.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-15 00:24:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-15 00:18:19 (#)
Ranking: 2
I was joking about the children thing.
<3
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Really? What if the little fuckers deserve it though?
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-15 00:18:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I was joking about the children thing.
<3
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-08-14 18:08:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-14 05:46:09 (#)
Ranking: 0
HOLY SHIT ROB BERG IS FINDING SOMEONE ELSE BESIDES ETS TO LATCH ONTO!
OH MY GOD HE'S GOING TO TRY AND START A DAISY CHAIN!
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heh heh, I guess he doesn't want the job of being ETS's Josef Goebbels...
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-14 14:14:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-14 13:38:15 (#)
Ranking: 2
I make it a point to beat crying children until they no longer have the physical capacity to cry.
~NeoDestiny
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meh.
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-14 13:38:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I make it a point to beat crying children until they no longer have the physical capacity to cry.
~NeoDestiny
Submitted by Snowynorth (user info) at 2006-08-14 10:55:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well it was very well written, and you do bring up some very good points. I'd love to give it a +2 if it was maybe only the first half... kinda goes down hill and becomes pretty hypocritical towards the end.
"Tolerant, but not stupid! Look, just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it! ..."Tolerate" means you're just putting up with it! You tolerate a crying child sitting next to you on the airplane or, or you tolerate a bad cold. It can still piss you off!" -- Mr. Garrison
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-14 06:03:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"So fact is determined by popular opinion, you're saying? The earth would still be flat using your logic, then."
No-one smart ever thought the earth was flat, that was made up by an author who wrote a book about Colombus. People were (relatively) accurately calculating the curvature of the earth as far back as the ancient greeks.
I can't not corrcet people about some things.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-14 05:46:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
HOLY SHIT ROB BERG IS FINDING SOMEONE ELSE BESIDES ETS TO LATCH ONTO!
OH MY GOD HE'S GOING TO TRY AND START A DAISY CHAIN!
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-14 03:06:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
How old are you now? 18? 19? Still 17? You have been gone for a while... but heck, even if it took you that long to figure out this little offering ... meh, yer a fucking genius. I like the way your mind works young man.
Submitted by mikeeegeee (user info) at 2006-08-14 03:01:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
clown penis
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-14 01:46:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
indoninja said: "I have yet to hear a reason why I should not steal or kill (if I can do so withour being caught) that does not involve a higher power."
In all honesty, I used to think along those exact same lines. "If there is no higher power or greater good and we have no objective meaning, why the fuck should I be mean or nice to anyone? There's no reason to or not to, right?"
It's called Nihilism, and it's something that you have to grow out of.
I'm not entirely sure how you do it, but you have to come to the realization that all of your actions should contribute to the greater good of mankind out of respect for your species, or at the very least it shouldn't harm them (ie: community service is good for mankind. Playing video games doesn't really help mankind, but you're not hurting anyone, etc...).
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domenad said: "Good God, another jagoff who thinks he has it figured out. It never fails to amaze me the number of pseudointellectual punks who, between games of Halo 2 and polishing off the Sunny Delight, think they have figured out the keys to life, reason and theology."
In my defense, I don't own an X-Box and I prefer chocolate milk to all other beverages, thank you. On a more serious note, I know I don't have it all figured out. I'm 17, I still walk through life thinking I know everything, heh, I know, but I try to be as humble as possible and always considering the other end. A peak into what I used to think scares me sometimes because I know that in past points of life I used to think I was totally correct, too, as I do now. But I digress, I never claimed to have all the facts and I invite you to disagree.
domenad said: "More people have eaten in the name of religion than any other cause."
Um...I don't know what that has to do with anything...
domenad said: "More alcoholics have overcome addiction with the help of religion than any other cause."
That's actually not true. According to this ( http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8923.htm ) website and Wikipedia, AA only has a 5-10% turnout for helping alcoholic people. For someone who speaks of "psuedo-intelligence" you sure seem to make a lot of false claims with no supporting evidence.
domenad said: "More inmates have been positively reformed through religion than any other method."
Again, this is another claim with no evidence. I dug around a little and couldn't find even a scant of evidence to support this. Though it does beg the question, if a person can attain happiness through ignorance, is it good to be ignorant? I think in the short-run this might work, but it would lead to a society of brain-washed people who were only living in illusionary worlds. Social progress would all stop if we submerged ourselves into fantasy worlds to attain happiness. Forget about relgion, maybe heroine is for you.
domenad said: "knowledge has been preserved and disseminated by religious scholars (primarily western world) than any other."
Another claim that I highly doubt to be true.
domenad said: "And more people find meaning in a higher power (95% of the world's population) than any other."
So fact is determined by popular opinion, you're saying? The earth would still be flat using your logic, then.
domenad said: "And for the predictable comeback, "more people have been killed in the name of religion", I say you're a fucking dumbass times two. Nearly ever religious war is just a front for something else, usually land or resources (money), the oldest true reason for war and one of the only really good ones. To simply SAY that religion is the reason does not necessarily make it the reason."
Um...Have you ever heard of a place called the Middle East?
domenad: "We don't need another anti-religious half-ass intellectual on this site. You had a hundred clones before you got here, and there are a hundred more waiting in the wings, hopefully with more original thoughts."
And I'm sure there are several million more flamers out there like you waiting to senselessly bash them all. Maybe you should pull your head out of your ass before posting next time, dipshit.
~NeoDestiny
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-13 22:00:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
hmmm...
I think this should be turned into a short film. If that interests in any capacity you let me know.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-08-13 21:59:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Holy fucking moley!
Yer smart. Really enjoyed that.
Pretty much the words out of my mouth - but without all the fancy-schmancy quotes.
I have no doubt that an extended conversation with you would incredibly rewarding. You wouldn't happen to live any where near Vancouver huh?
Refreshing to know people like you are still participating in this shit heap of a society we are polluting with our collective stupidity.
Hopefully you stick around this filthy despot posting and commenting much more.
If not... thanks for this.
Submitted by Sockster (user info) at 2006-08-13 21:33:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-08-13 21:10:17 (#)
Ranking: -2
Good God, another jagoff who thinks he has it figured out. It never fails to amaze me the number of pseudointellectual punks who, between games of Halo 2 and polishing off the Sunny Delight, think they have figured out the keys to life, reason and theology. Rather than mercifully keeping the secret to themselves, they invariably spout their bullshit with such a regularity and forcefulness that you want to take a pair of knitting needles and put out your own cochlea rather than listen to such improvised crap. This entire post is a verbal turd.
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Sort of sounds like you're describing yourself.
Submitted by Sockster (user info) at 2006-08-13 21:23:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-08-13 21:10:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Good God, another jagoff who thinks he has it figured out. It never fails to amaze me the number of pseudointellectual punks who, between games of Halo 2 and polishing off the Sunny Delight, think they have figured out the keys to life, reason and theology. Rather than mercifully keeping the secret to themselves, they invariably spout their bullshit with such a regularity and forcefulness that you want to take a pair of knitting needles and put out your own cochlea rather than listen to such improvised crap. This entire post is a verbal turd.
More people have eaten in the name of religion than any other cause.
More alcoholics have overcome addiction with the help of religion than any other cause.
More inmates have been positively reformed through religion than any other method.
More knowledge has been preserved and disseminated by religious scholars (primarily western world) than any other.
And more people find meaning in a higher power (95% of the world's population) than any other.
And for the predictable comeback, "more people have been killed in the name of religion", I say you're a fucking dumbass times two. Nearly ever religious war is just a front for something else, usually land or resources (money), the oldest true reason for war and one of the only really good ones. To simply SAY that religion is the reason does not necessarily make it the reason.
We don't need another anti-religious half-ass intellectual on this site. You had a hundred clones before you got here, and there are a hundred more waiting in the wings, hopefully with more original thoughts.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-08-13 21:03:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-13 19:49:48 (#)
Ranking: 2
Indon, I'm pretty sure it was you that me and Redskies were having a conversation along these lines with. It amazed me that you simply could not comprehend empathy.
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Well I don't know if empathy is natural. I sometimes think of it as something taught (could be wrong), but that comes back to the whole argument that the only reason to teach it is because of a god.
If I were to accept that empathy is a natural human reaction, in the absence of the belief in a higher power why would you let your empathy get in the way of stealing from someone if you wouldn't get caught.
Submitted by SweatyButcher (user info) at 2006-08-13 21:02:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I go with the idea that God is more like a superior being from way somewhere else that watches us for kicks.
I also believe in the big bang, and if some asshole says "Well where did the starting matter come from?" Then I say the same place God did, douche.
Submitted by CrazyHorse (user info) at 2006-08-13 20:47:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
Damn good Quote...
While I happen to believe in God and the scientific process, I agree with the vast majority of what you wrote...
Very good read.
Submitted by rockdocc (user info) at 2006-08-13 20:23:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by paint_it_black (user info) at 2006-08-13 19:52:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I'm sure most people would consider the title of this absurd.
______________
No we just think you're a Loser.
Capital L and free -2.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-08-13 19:49:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wow
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Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-08-13 11:25:41 (#)
Ranking: 2
Looking over your past "work" I am now questioning the validity of this post.
Regardless, I still agree with it and consider it to be incredibly well written.
So take another +2 for now...
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Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-08-13 10:09:39 (#)
Ranking: 2
I... I don't even know where to begin.
This was perhaps one of the greatest things I have ever read on this site.
"When someone tells you to "tolerate" the religious beliefs of another person, do you realize that you're being asked to respect the beliefs of a person who thinks that you're going to suffer in hell for all of eternity for not believing in their god? Yeah, that's right. Some people might not tell you this up front, or even believe it themselves, but according to the catechism you're toast if you don't believe in God. So while you tolerate another person's belief, they condemn you to an eternity of hell. That sounds fair, right? Bullshit."
Thats what makes us, or at least me, better than them.
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-08-13 18:44:08 (#)
Ranking: 0
[.....]
I have yet to hear a reason why I should not steal or kill (if I can do so withour being caught) that does not involve a higher power.
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Indon, I'm pretty sure it was you that me and Redskies were having a conversation along these lines with. It amazed me that you simply could not comprehend empathy.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-08-13 18:44:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Love your family, treat your neighbor with respect, don't murder, don't steal, whatever. Why do I call these common sense values? These values can be derived from basic thinking and can exist (contrary to some religious scholars) completely outside of religious thought.
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I have yet to hear a reason why I should not steal or kill (if I can do so withour being caught) that does not involve a higher power.
I agree with you on creatinism as a science being stupid, and if you could prove the bible there would be no use for faith.
Submitted by r0fl (user info) at 2006-08-13 17:30:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
1.5 for the effort, though.
Submitted by r0fl (user info) at 2006-08-13 17:29:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
When someone tells you to "tolerate" the religious beliefs of another person, do you realize that you're being asked to respect the beliefs of a person who thinks that you're going to suffer in hell for all of eternity for not believing in their god? Yeah, that's right. Some people might not tell you this up front, or even believe it themselves, but according to the catechism you're toast if you don't believe in God. So while you tolerate another person's belief, they condemn you to an eternity of hell. That sounds fair, right? Bullshit.
This is the only statement I disagree with. I have many friends practicing Islam and other organized religion, and by their standards, I probably wouldn't make it to paradise. That being said, I "tolerate" their beliefs and practices, because that's what humans are able to do. Don't believe in Jesus, God, etc? r0fl doesn't care, just don't steal my shit and keep your voice down during the game, and we'll probably get along.
Submitted by Gunslinger (user info) at 2006-08-13 17:07:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't hate God, or Jesus. It's their fan club I can't stand.
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2006-08-13 12:02:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by NeoDestiny (user info) at 2006-08-13 11:29:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
That homosexuality thing was fucking stupid. I shudder to think that there are traces of how stupid I used to be when I was younger still left on the internet. The war thing was a pointless banter, too, though it more closely resembles my thinking today than the 100% plagurized homosexuality bullshit. I'm no longer religious, so I don't share that fucked up belief anymore, rofl.
Anyway, have fun. I hope my past doesn't convict me too much.
~NeoDestiny
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-08-13 11:25:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Looking over your past "work" I am now questioning the validity of this post.
Regardless, I still agree with it and consider it to be incredibly well written.
So take another +2 for now...
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2006-08-13 10:09:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I... I don't even know where to begin.
This was perhaps one of the greatest things I have ever read on this site.
I'm both in awe and stricken with jealosy that I didn't write this.
I humbly offer two linkwhores for your approval...
http://www.ubersite.com/m/87559
http://www.ubersite.com/m/86141
I shall have to return when my head clears to see some of the other responses.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-08-13 08:44:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo Galilei
Thats got to be one of my favorites.
I agree with JayPeg that spiritual faith and science are not mutually exclusive, but organized religion, when it has the ability to manipulate the faithful, does tend to become a thorn in science's side.
Submitted by Death_Metal_Dude (user info) at 2006-08-13 08:26:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-08-13 08:14:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Not horrible.
Obviously you did a bit of work on this, so I can't in my right mind -2 it.
BUT.
Big "but" here.
It *is* possible to believe in God (not Jesus, Mohammed, whatever prophet/savior new religions cast around) and believe science.
It's perfectly possible that 14 billion years ago, something we perceive as "godlike" created the universe, or universes, or branes, or whatever scientific theory we want to believe.
I believe in both God and the scientific process. It's easy.
And just for shits and giggles, do you know the name Georges Lemaitre?
Jesuit priest?
Also the mathamatical father of the Big Bang?
Just because you believe one, doesn't mean the other can not also be true.
Again, GOD, not Jesus. Or Mohammed. Or whatever. GOD.