US Citizenship Ain't Gonna Save Ya (2003 hits)
Category: NoneRating: -0.08 on 125 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by <> (View user info) at 2006-10-17 15:18:00 EDT
As all us non-citizens will be sleeping a little less soundly tonight after our glorious leader signed the Military Commissions Act today, I thought the yanks might benefit from a similar sense of discomfort....
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Iraqi Judge Sentences U.S. Citizen To Death After U.S. Military "Demanded" the Man Be Executed
An Iraqi-born US citizen is in a battle to save his life as he tries to avoid execution in Baghdad. But he's not up against insurgents groups - he's up against the Iraqi and US governments.
The man, Mohammad Munaf, was arrested by US troops last year. He was charged with kidnapping three Romanian journalists and holding them hostage for nearly two months. Last week, Munaf was sentenced to death. He's being held in a US-run prison at the Baghdad airport.
Munaf maintains his innocence. Just weeks ago, it appeared he would be set free. Munaf's attorneys say the presiding judge promised to dismiss the charges after he concluded there was no material evidence to support a conviction.
But then came a strange intervention. Two US military officers appeared in court to advocate giving Munaf the death penalty. One of the officers claimed to be acting on behalf of the Romanian embassy and said Romania "demanded" Munaf be put to death. The two officers then held a private meeting with the judge - without the defense in the room. When he returned, the judge ruled Munaf was guilty and ordered his execution.
The Romanian government says it did not authorize any US official to speak on its behalf and that it is not seeking the death penalty. Munaf's attorneys are asking a federal court to stop the US military from handing him over to the Iraqi government. In an emergency motion filed last week, the attorneys write: "Mr. Munaf was convicted and sentenced to death by an Iraqi court operating under glaring procedural deficiencies and the direct manipulation of US military personnel." Lawyers have also filed a motion arguing the US has no legal right to turn Munaf over to a government where he might face torture.
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Full story and interview transcript here: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/17/1439239
Welcome to the new American century. Dive right in - the waters warm (and you'll be held under it until you lose consciousness unless we can get you to talk by molesting your kids in front of you)
User Reviews
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-20 15:10:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2006-10-19 19:33:07 (#)
Ranking: -2
Kiddnapping people for 3 months DESERVES the death penalty. I don't care what country you are in.
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So we should kill the people who allowed apparently innocent people to be held for months, sometimes years, without conviction in guantanamo?
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2006-10-19 19:33:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Kiddnapping people for 3 months DESERVES the death penalty. I don't care what country you are in.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2006-10-19 14:37:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No Comment
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2006-10-19 11:45:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:37:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and where in the fuck would "they" be, without "us"?
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:35:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"they", want control
"they", want tolls
"they", want to double-dip
"they", want to extort us
and on
and on
and on
FUCK "they" in the butt...till it burns and bleeds
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 22:12:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yeah, it's on here too. We're watching it now. Good call.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-18 22:08:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, here, on PBS, a special on net neutrality came on at 9. It's pretty interesting so far.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 22:05:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
9:05pm. We're CST. Why?
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-18 22:01:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Filthy, what time is it where you are?
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:51:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:40:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
It wasn't just directed at you.
Let's see, one, a Canadian, told me I was lazy and apathetic because I wasn't single-handedly removing Bush from office.
Another told me I was an ignorant American cunt because I dared disagree with him over some point.
and so on.
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I know it wasn't just directed at me and I know I need to be smacked down sometimes because I say some ignorant shit when I get caught up in the insanity of it all.
But I can also be rational and, although I can understand your skepticism on this point, my desire to actually do something positive is a genuine one. I'm glad you commented on this and I'm pretty sure that we *can* get some good out of this if we get the vicious shit out of our systems and move on to the idea and perspective sharing. If you don't want to lay out what you do, that's cool, or if you just don't want to do it in such a public space feel free to drop it to uberfilthy.at.gmail.com
Hell, if you just want to rant and rave, go for it - I'd rather see people calling me a stupid cunt than staying quiet.
Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:49:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:40:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
______
I understand your frustration, forensic, I really do.
When I first started here I used to just go around and drop -2s on any racist, ignorant, etc shit that this site is poluted with. But that isn't going to change the minds of any squattails or sphagnums; they love their state-of-nature degenerate fallback position of hurling insults etc. So I ignore them, post my own views in hopes that they'll attract more intelligent people to this site, and hope that that's good enough. They still bug the crap out of me, but I stick around because some people here are legitimately good writers, entertaining posters, and every now and again you stumble across someone with their head screwed on right.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:42:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:40:19 (#)
Ranking: 2
And Filthy, thank you for spilling your brain out in this thread; it's delicious.
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No problem. I've enjoyed your input too.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:40:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It wasn't just directed at you.
Let's see, one, a Canadian, told me I was lazy and apathetic because I wasn't single-handedly removing Bush from office.
Another told me I was an ignorant American cunt because I dared disagree with him over some point.
and so on.
Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:40:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 20:44:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU
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LA LA LALA LALA LAlie
Polite, no? Let's put our heads together and discuss things, right? Does this idea not seem sensible to you? Similarily, does catagorising everyone into the same clump of people who's political views are "fuck america" seem rational?
Personally, I detest your government and those who support it. But I'm also aware that more than half of you (the majority) aren't to be clumped into that category.
So good for you for doing whatever it is you're doing, forensicgirl, but perhaps you can see that in your comments you're merely perpetuating stereotypes.
And Filthy, thank you for spilling your brain out in this thread; it's delicious.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:37:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 14:30:26 (#)
Ranking: 0
we fucked shit up to get what we have and keep it
***
and i be have'n lots of nice things because of that
USA! USA! USA!
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 21:30:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 20:44:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
It wasn't until I came to Uber that I am repeatedly insulted because I'm an American.
"Stupid American(s)" "Obnoxious American(s)" etc.
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Interesting comment, and yes, quite right - I know I go too far with the venom at times. But I'm going to temper that with a suggestion that you can correct me on if I'm wrong. Comparing conversations on uber to conversations face to face is a precarious business - ubers a weird animal, both because of the 'bored at work' status of most of the participants and also the relative anonymity. I mean, I don't see many people in the real world getting any amusement from saying "so and so was raped...pass it on" but it's almost endemic here. That doesn't mean the people here are the scum of the earth - it just means that when you take away a certain amount of culpability from normal, mostly decent people, shit gets out of hand. Everything here is exaggerated to compensate for the huge number of aspects of a "normal" conversation that we lose by not being in the same room. It's pretty sad, but it's nonetheless true. I don't think you can expect people to tiptoe around holding hands in a forum like this and considering how many times you just told everyone to go fuck themselves, you probably wouldn't want that anyway.
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Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 20:44:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Quite frankly, I've long ago stopped listening to most of the non-American posters on here when they want to talk politics. Why? Well, call me crazy but I get fucking sick and tired of being insulted and I tend to get downright furious when it is insinuated that I'm "lazy" "apathetic" "ignorant" or any one of the number of insults that get flung at Americans.
Oh, but you were just being tounge-in-cheek, right? Yeah, whatever.
So to all you non-American posters who presume to insult me and who seem to know what I do off of this site (in regards to political involvement and action)..............
FUCK YOU!
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The only person I have actively criticised here is inion - and not because of her nationality but because of her, in my opinion, ignorant viewpoint that my opinion means nothing because of where my parents had sex. A handful of americans (wardy, durae, anansie) have even backed me up on this so I reject the allegation that I'm criticising her purely for being american, and not for being an idiot. Surely presuming that all non-american posters are irrational, anti-american shitheads is just the other side of the "all americans are ignorant" penny?
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Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 20:44:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
How dare ANY of you (Americans included) presume to know what everyone is doing?!
Americans--shut the fuck up! Educate yourself because we have a lot of work to do to clean this mess up. If you don't want to listen to the sarcastic and insulting twats on Uber then don't, but educate yourselves nonetheless with sources outside our own. Read foreign and independent news sources in addtion to your favorite ones. Educate yourselves!
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I agree with all of that.
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Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 20:44:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
You have absolutely no idea what I'm doing personally (off of this fucking site) to affect change for the positive.
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Again, where have I said that you're doing nothing just because you're an american? I don't blame you if you didn't read all the reviews because this thing is a monster by now, but I'm pretty sure me and ETS are the only people who have been criticised for either doing nothing or not doing enough. You'll also see that I asked people to give me suggestions of what I *could* do, of what "doing something" as a responsible (non-)citizen would entail. That was a genuine request - I really am all ears on that issue because I know that no matter what I do, there is plenty more to be done.
What I don't understand is this: you don't like people assuming you're doing nothing and you think people automatically do, so instead of clueing them in and discussing it, you just silently fume. I'm being honest here - I'd really appreciate it if you did lay out some of the things that you do. Not so I or anyone else could belittle or criticise it, but because it might give me and others (no matter their nationalitity) some new ideas and so actually bring some good out of this "toilet of a site"
Or you could just keep telling me to fuck off. Your call.
Submitted by freebie (user info) at 2006-10-18 20:59:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
another example of we gets what we wants. take a deep breath, have a seat, and see how a real
country can swing a big dick
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-18 20:44:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Attending a large university for a large chunk of my life has brought me into contact with many different people, a lot of whom came from other countries. I consider myself fortunate for having the chance to get to know them.
Many of them had a strong distaste for the American government and its policies.
However NONE of them ever held themselves over us Americans and they sure as fuck didn't insult us.
We would have/do have frank discussions about the terrible mess the world is in, a lot of which has been caused by American foreign policy.
I thought this was pretty cool and still correspond with many of them.
It wasn't until I came to Uber that I am repeatedly insulted because I'm an American.
"Stupid American(s)" "Obnoxious American(s)" etc.
Quite frankly, I've long ago stopped listening to most of the non-American posters on here when they want to talk politics. Why? Well, call me crazy but I get fucking sick and tired of being insulted and I tend to get downright furious when it is insinuated that I'm "lazy" "apathetic" "ignorant" or any one of the number of insults that get flung at Americans.
Oh, but you were just being tounge-in-cheek, right? Yeah, whatever.
So to all you non-American posters who presume to insult me and who seem to know what I do off of this site (in regards to political involvement and action)..............
FUCK YOU!
How dare ANY of you (Americans included) presume to know what everyone is doing?!
Americans--shut the fuck up! Educate yourself because we have a lot of work to do to clean this mess up. If you don't want to listen to the sarcastic and insulting twats on Uber then don't, but educate yourselves nonetheless with sources outside our own. Read foreign and independent news sources in addtion to your favorite ones. Educate yourselves!
To all you nasty, sarcastic, venomous non-American assholes on this toilet of a site, again, FUCK YOU!
You don't know me, so quit pretending like you do.
You have absolutely no idea what I'm doing personally (off of this fucking site) to affect change for the positive.
That's why I stay out of political discussions around here, not because I'm ignorant but because of the ridiculous shit that goes on (ref: this post).
FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 19:19:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Yep, it was: http://www.ubersite.com/m/94533#2187629
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 19:18:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think it was coyote who intially mentioned this below, but his attorneys seem like a better target for criticism than the reporter. That part about not having spoken to the romanians yet does seem rather suspect.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-10-18 19:18:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-18 19:02:32 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:22:46 (#)
Ranking: 0
ummm... where are his sources? what basis do you have not to trust a court of law? what basis do you have not to trust the judicial process?
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You have about the same basis to not trust this reporter as I have to not trust the judicial process and the military. If you want to confirm his sources, which not even NEWSPAPERS consistently publish, go find them. There's a whole wide internet out there at your fingertips. Use it.
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Thate reporter has absolutely zero credability. The one source they actually named blatantly lied about the number of death sentences in Iraq (or he has no clue what is going on). If they take this person as a reliable source, how can you trust anything they say?
This is ETS's problem he believes 100% anything anti US without any proof. He believes anti US sources even when they are proven unreliable or biased. He doesn't understand taking things with a grain of salt.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 19:14:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
are you reading what i write? do you understand yellow journalism at all? it's not my job to prove he's wrong, it's his job to prove he's write. there's a reason why this isn't in the major media networks, and that's because it's completely unsubstantiated (as far as this guy's research shows).
also, did you seriously just tell me to go do a bunch of research on the internet in order to find the truth about something like this? are you fucking kidding me? your trust in the internet and its reliability is startling compared to your mistrust of the media.
fuck.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-18 19:02:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:22:46 (#)
Ranking: 0
ummm... where are his sources? what basis do you have not to trust a court of law? what basis do you have not to trust the judicial process?
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You have about the same basis to not trust this reporter as I have to not trust the judicial process and the military. If you want to confirm his sources, which not even NEWSPAPERS consistently publish, go find them. There's a whole wide internet out there at your fingertips. Use it.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 19:02:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i did close it until your dick husband jumped on me too. i already said yippy you won i give or whatever it was you wanted to hear.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:55:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:27:55 (#)
Ranking: 0
all of you that jumped on me seem to have read somewhere that i said she had no right to criticize. i didn't say that i said why bother.
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I suspect it was the "your opinion is worth less than the opinion of someone who has taken the oath of allegiance" part that encouraged them on that point. Comparing (no matter how implicitly) a government sanctioned resident to that of a border jumper probably didn't help either.
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:27:55 (#)
Ranking: 0
filthy - i wrote those out because for some reason you highlighted them. i took your capitalization of those phrases to mean you didn't realize that at least one of them didn't apply to you in any reaosnable sense. why did you highlight them if you already knew that? if you didn't agree to the whole pledge anyway you could've just left it.
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You reminded me that I would have to face the consequences if Britain instituted a draft of females and I refused to participate because I highlighted parts of the oath of allegiance that I could not repeat in good faith? What? Look at what I quoted in my comment - I'm objecting to your implication that I'm somehow stupid enough to think that in a situation where I was required to go to war and refused, the british government would just say "well ok then" without dragging me over as many legal coals as they could. That deals with Britain. As for America...
It seems somewhat naive that you want me to trust in a non-explicit caveat that my gender somehow makes that promise one not destined to be fulfilled, particularly in the light of the current climate. I didn't really think torture would be redefined to make it legal either, or that the american and british leaders could be publically caught lying in order to justify a war and have some people still support them, but here we are. We can't take anything for granted - what is unthinkable today can easily be state-sanctioned tomorrow, and that includes "well I'm promising to go to war if required but they probably won't make me because I'm a girl"
Is there anything else you want me to school you on or can we call this to a close now?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:27:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
it's bad.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:44:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
Don't tell me to shut up, you fucking bitch. We ARE horrible. I'm a fucking American and *I* can say that. You've got no right judging her for coming here or criticising this fucked up government. I'd be more concerned if she DIDN'T criticise, cause that would mean she's a dumb motherfucker like half of YOU people.
Americans are generally lazy and ignorant. They don't pay attention to the world around them, and they get pissed off at people who try to wake them up to it, like it's somehow THEIR fault.
People like you give Americans a bad fucking name. Fucking trailer trash whore.
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why should i shut up? i've got every right to judge just like everyone else does. and just like everyone else has. including you brad "holier-than-thou" linzy.
i conceded to her points on her criticism of america. all of you that jumped on me seem to have read somewhere that i said she had no right to criticize. i didn't say that i said why bother. and i'm allowed to be offended that she did or overjoyed or completely apathetic. i've repeatedly said "why bother" and everyone took that as "you have no right to."
and when i hear complaints from foreign sources about americans it's not usually we're lazy it's usually more like we're too obnoxious, rude, demanding, intrusive and self-righteous. ignorant i'll agree with. speaking of ignorant, i think it's kind of ironic that the man from indiana calls the girl from connecticut a trailer trash whore. i'm wondering how many people from connecticut had their trailers recently demolished by a tornado.
both of you go nearly straight to insults when someone goes against you. (tea and madam included or not)
all of a sudden she gets a right to defend her stance but i lose mine and get names thrown at me?
filthy - i wrote those out because for some reason you highlighted them. i took your capitalization of those phrases to mean you didn't realize that at least one of them didn't apply to you in any reaosnable sense. why did you highlight them if you already knew that? if you didn't agree to the whole pledge anyway you could've just left it.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:22:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ummm... where are his sources? what basis do you have not to trust a court of law? what basis do you have not to trust the judicial process?
oh, you have some comments made by a reporter, comments that are uncorraborated and fail to show any evidence whatsoever. my job is not to prove that the court was wrong here, it's the reporter's job. are you seriously this fucking stupid?
as far as my parent's getting me out of trouble, can't say that's the case, not that it's any of your business. as far as really ever being in trouble with the law, can't say i have been. i'm not sure if this makes me more or less credible to comment on the judicial process in iraq, but something tells me someone with your fucked up methods of reasoning doesn't know this either.
basically, you're wrong. it's not my job to prove that this guy wasn't guilty, it's the reporter's. and he didn't do it, he didn't come close to doing it. if you can show me where he did, be my guest.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-18 18:08:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:52:48 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:31:34 (#)
Ranking: 2
a little off-topic, but something I found amusing/terrifying: Wardy said, "...my guess is the guy is guilty. the reporter didn't show any evidence to the contrary in the article or the interview..." and it made me wonder if he understands what it means to be INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. I mean, holy crap, that's a little basic, isn't it?
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ummmm.... he was proven guilty. the reporter being interviewed just doesn't agree with or believe it. either way, since he was proven guilty by the court, it is the reporter's job to disprove the verdict, not just create speculation with unsubstantied facts. that's called yellow journalism, and it's bad.
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Here's Wardy again making assumptions about people's guilt or innocence. Trusting unequivocally in our court systems and venerated institutions.
All this tells me is he's never been to court. Probably because his mommy and daddy always got his little ass out of trouble.
The reporter gave you several facts you are ignoring, namely that two U.S. soldiers convened with the judge ex parte and claimed the Romanians wanted him dead. The Romanians said later deny that.
There are several questions in there we should be asking BEYOND whether he's guilty or not, chief among which is why the fuck are U.S. soldiers trying to influence the outcome of a trial? Why would the Romanians be allowed to influence the outcome of a trial? Who is lying? The soldiers or the Romanians? Why has this not been declared a mistrial if any of this is in the least bit true? Why does Wardy insist on always asking the wrong questions and looking like a dumbass? Why doesn't anyone but me, Filthy, and now Durae seem to notice this?
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:53:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hahahahahah. See, I was thinking I was being exceptionally rude until brad came barrelling along with his "trailor trash whore"s and showed me the american way.
That's at least one thing you can say for the english - they'll make you a cup of tea and call you madam whilst they insult you.
Durae - good comment, thank you. You should drop by more often.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:52:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:31:34 (#)
Ranking: 2
a little off-topic, but something I found amusing/terrifying: Wardy said, "...my guess is the guy is guilty. the reporter didn't show any evidence to the contrary in the article or the interview..." and it made me wonder if he understands what it means to be INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. I mean, holy crap, that's a little basic, isn't it?
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ummmm.... he was proven guilty. the reporter being interviewed just doesn't agree with or believe it. either way, since he was proven guilty by the court, it is the reporter's job to disprove the verdict, not just create speculation with unsubstantied facts. that's called yellow journalism, and it's bad.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:44:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 15:07:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
brad - shut up. again, i didn't question her right to be here. i'm actually pretty impressed that she did come legally. the process she went through is just another reason i think we need to revamp our immigration policy. i don't really want the reintroduction of smallpox to the us any more than anyone else. i respect her for that. i'm not going to respect her overall view on americans or our policy after the wombat comment. it implies (ever so slightly of course) that to be one of us is to be something horrible .
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Don't tell me to shut up, you fucking bitch. We ARE horrible. I'm a fucking American and *I* can say that. You've got no right judging her for coming here or criticising this fucked up government. I'd be more concerned if she DIDN'T criticise, cause that would mean she's a dumb motherfucker like half of YOU people.
Americans are generally lazy and ignorant. They don't pay attention to the world around them, and they get pissed off at people who try to wake them up to it, like it's somehow THEIR fault.
People like you give Americans a bad fucking name. Fucking trailer trash whore.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:42:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:07:20 (#)
Ranking: 0
if britain instituted a draft and then made females a part of that and then started a draft, you as a citizen would have to serve or be jailed. i also kind of wonder if you'd show up if they found you guilty of draft dodging since you're here and not there. you haven't taken a pledge to them (that you've mentioned) you were born there, the allegiance is inherent whether or not you agree. you'd still feel the consequences of telling them to fuck off.
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Do you think I don't know this? I don't understand how you can read my responses that basically tear your position apart and still think I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the concept of cause and effect. How can you see someone who isn't prepared to lie in order to secure themselves a priveldge and avoid criticism from bigots like yourself and still wonder if they would be cowardly enough to not face the consequences of their actions.
It really does baffle me that you think you can bring up an aspect of my move to america or my decisions regarding citizenship that I haven't already considered. You are out of your depth here sweetheart - I think we can agree on that if nothing else.
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:31:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
a little off-topic, but something I found amusing/terrifying: Wardy said, "...my guess is the guy is guilty. the reporter didn't show any evidence to the contrary in the article or the interview..." and it made me wonder if he understands what it means to be INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. I mean, holy crap, that's a little basic, isn't it?
Oh, and inion, you have to be completely ignorant to be railing Filthy for her (highly justified) opinions regarding the us. You haven't raised a decent point throughout the whole discussion here, and it's become clear that your vitriol was a knee-jerk defensive reaction toward her accurate criticisms. The idea that a person should be silenced because they don't DO enough is outrageous if you are familiar at all with the history of our fine, fine, beyond reproach government. You seem to be forgetting (along with a lot of people) that discussion IS a form of action and one so important that it's outlined as a basic right in our founding documents.
I'm sick of people whining that people who talk aren't doing anything. Discussions are important dammit, just like education is important. I didn't know about this little bit of news and it's definitely something I should know. Am I pissed off that Filthy isn't banging on the gate outside the white house, or organizing a hunger strike with ETS about it? Uhh, not really, because NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN. Discussion is the most powerful means of political change we have at our disposal right now. No amount of hand-written, crayon-illustrated letters to the president will change the machinations of this administration. The only hope we seem to have is talking about all the bullshit and maybe a trickle of that information will somehow reach the red state retards.
Yes, I'm cynical. Why? Because I DO take action and nothing. ever. happens. You would be cynical too, inion, if you were the super concerned citizen you self-righteously imply you are.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:30:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
whats wrong if she hates america? i fucking hate a shitload of aspects about america.
first amendment fucking kicks ass.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 17:07:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
no one's trying to change the kkk, they just want to do away with them. no one wanted to change the nazis, or idi amin or kim jong or mao or hitler or sadaam or the taliban. they just wanted to do away with them. that's not change, it's just eradication. ghandi changed india from the inside, mlk jr changed america from the inside. things like that. actually changing a political system and not bulldozing it to the ground are two different things.
"never" was still part of your statement. sarcastic as the rest of the answer is, it still comes off like the question was so laughable that you'd deign to become a citizen.
the bear arms refers to a draft which you'd never participate in due to gender. any sort of apocalyptic scifi crap or civil war that happens which puts a gun in your hands would probably be a little of a stretch for that oath. on top of that all you'd have to do is say is violence is against your beliefs and you'd be given a noncombat role, assuming women were allowed into combat anyway. as much as women carry guns in the military they're far far less likely to use them. which for some reason makes me wonder if brad's registered... anyway. if britain instituted a draft and then made females a part of that and then started a draft, you as a citizen would have to serve or be jailed. i also kind of wonder if you'd show up if they found you guilty of draft dodging since you're here and not there. you haven't taken a pledge to them (that you've mentioned) you were born there, the allegiance is inherent whether or not you agree. you'd still feel the consequences of telling them to fuck off.
i condede your other points.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-18 16:52:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*You're.
Fuck.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-18 16:51:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Your welcome.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 16:43:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Thank you anansie, I appreciate that.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-18 16:42:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't know about the post, or the reliability of the news source. I don't really trust ANY news source. But I think filthy is right in the debate about whether or not she should voice her opinion.
I'd rather hear her opinion on my country than quite a few people I know personally. At least she is intelligent.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 16:21:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 15:07:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
that is what makes me label you as an outsider. it's great and all that you love your new american family, but that statement above says to me that you despise america itself and citizens not related to you.
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Sweet jesus. How can you look at a statement that includes a wombat wearing a spiked helmet gnawing its way out of a womb and not even suspect for a moment that my tongue is firmly implanted in my cheek. Just think on it for a second. Picture it in your mind. It's a fucking wombat. Wearing a spiked helmet. In a motherfucking uterus. I'm almost in disbelief that I'm having to explain this to you. I don't think I could have made it any more ridiculous if I'd said I'd rather be gang raped by mimes who've strapped themselves with live otters.
I've explained to you exactly why I won't become an american citizen (and it's not a dishonourable reason - in fact, it shows a measure of integrity that I'm not prepared to stand up and lie just to secure myself a vote in the country where I live) - but you choose to disregard that in favour of some quip about an armed fucking marsupial. What's wrong with you?
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 15:07:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
the only thing i said for you to do was make yourself part of the group you're trying to change even if it takes a minimum of three years
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Make myself part of the group I'm trying to change? So if I had a problem with the KKK, the only legitimate method to deal with that would be to become a clansmen? That's the logical conclusion to your line of thinking and it's fucking retarded dude. It really is.
===
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 15:07:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
why bother criticizing ours. if you hate ours, and don't want to be a part of it why bother?
===
How does criticism imply hatrid? Your country was founded by dissenters, by people who actively and vocally criticised things. They had no legitimate say here either at first - you think america would exist if we travelled back and applied your "why bother" attitude to them too?
Where have you got this idea that being politically active begins and ends with dragging yourself to a polling booth once in a blue moon? You can't just mark a ballot occasionally and think that you've done your duty.
You honestly think it would be better if I sat here shaking my head in silence rather than discussing things with people? That's how you got into this fucking mess! So many people were thinking "why bother" and "well I voted for the other guy so I've done my part" that your government is currently bending you over and raping you up the wrong'un. And you think the responsible thing for me to do is keep my opinion to myself? Come on now.
This is not a question of not wanting to be a part of the political process. It does not matter how much I would like to be able to vote here, you have placed certain restrictions on my eligability to do that and if I was to conform to those standards by seeking dual citizenship I would be making a mockery of both my own beliefs and the oath of allegience itself. I happen to think that if you make a promise to do something you should mean it, and I'm not going to stand up and promise to go to war for this country when that absolutely contradicts what I believe to be the "right" thing. I wouldn't go to war for Britain either and if they asked me to take a pledge stating as much I would tell them to go fuck themselves. Why isn't this sinking in? It's farcical that you can criticise anything that I've done whilst encouraging me to lie in order to secure myself a priveledge that I know I do not qualify for.
Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America:
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; THAT I WILL BEAR ARMS ON BEHALF OF THE UNITED STATES WHEN REQUIRED BY THE LAW; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION OR PURPOSE OF EVASION; SO HELP ME GOD."
That's not an oath that I can take in good faith, and if the price for that is not having a vote where I pay my taxes then so be it.
If your next comment is still going to boil down to the "if you don't like it get the fuck out" redneck bullshit that I really thought you were above, then please save me the trouble of responding to it and just move on.
Submitted by hairycoo (user info) at 2006-10-18 15:40:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
oh man
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 15:07:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-16 15:25:58 (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-16 15:19:41 (#)
Ranking: 0
so when does she become a citizen then?
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Never. I would rather dress a wombat in spurs and a spiked helmet, shoehorn it past my uterus and encourage it to gnaw its way out of my womb than become an american.
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that is what makes me label you as an outsider. it's great and all that you love your new american family, but that statement above says to me that you despise america itself and citizens not related to you.
i have still not once questioned your specific right to be here. i haven't once questioned your right to say what you please either. i do assume you went the legal way and not just flew on on a student visa and then skipped renewal.
the only thing i said for you to do was make yourself part of the group you're trying to change even if it takes a minimum of three years. that was my response to your question of what you should do. i said dual citizenship too. which political system is more important to you as far as your personal influence goes? it seems to be english. if that's so, why bother criticizing ours. if you hate ours, and don't want to be a part of it why bother?
that's all i've asked this whole time is why bother with the criticism when you don't want to be an american apparently ever. when it comes to allegiance it's not to us. that's not important to you, you weren't raised here, this isn't really yours, i get that. but change is exacted from the inside. always. there is no change in anything unless it comes from inside. if it's an outside force, it's temporary, unstable, impermanent. always.
brad - shut up. again, i didn't question her right to be here. i'm actually pretty impressed that she did come legally. the process she went through is just another reason i think we need to revamp our immigration policy. i don't really want the reintroduction of smallpox to the us any more than anyone else. i respect her for that. i'm not going to respect her overall view on americans or our policy after the wombat comment. it implies (ever so slightly of course) that to be one of us is to be something horrible .
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 14:30:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
This is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read. If you can't judge my opinion on its own merits without referring to the words stamped in my passport then fuck you, you fucking bigot. I don't want respect from people who can't see beyond their own arbitrarily drawn borders because they're sure as hell not going to get it from me.
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arbitrarily? how about militarily, because let's face it, there's nothing arbitrary about our borders. we fucked shit up to get what we have and keep it. don't cheapen my heritage.
as such, i have something you can do to enact political change in this country/abroad. and it shouldn't even be that hard:
get your husband to stop being a fucking sensationalist, get him off the fucking couch, and have him actually accomplish something. now, as this is the direction i suggest you take with him, do not be mistaken in that i wish for you to simply ignore the first step in the process: the cessation of his inherent nature to be a sensationalist. because, in all actuality, he's just as bigoted as inion, only on a seperate tangent. i have never talked to anyone so misguided with regards to history, the political process, economics, and pretty much everything else.
now, in order to sedate his sensationalist nature into one that is more informed, productive, and in all regards better recieved, get him an education. have him take some night classes, starting with american politics, american history, western civilization, and let's go from there. i expect within about three years he should be at the level that not only would his opinion be respected, but that it might actual be ready to enact change.
that's it. that's all i ask for you to do. one person is all you have to change.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-18 14:24:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
inion: How dare you question Filthy's legality as a resident, or her right to be here!?
Fuck you, you fucking whore. If you had any idea the hoops we had to jump through to get her here, or the things she had to give up to come here and be with me, you'd be ashamed of that statement.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-18 14:21:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't know what to say...
All we can do is keep beating our heads against the ignorance wall, doing our small part.
Things like this will always be there. There will always be someone, somewhere, doling out injustice.
Only vigilance and true information can combat it. I don't even have to read the reviews of this post to know that most people here are utterly uninterested in both.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 14:06:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 13:12:21 (#)
Ranking: 0
it reminds me of the protesting illegal immigrants a couple months ago whatever. wow you're standing up for your rights... wait, you're not a citizen of the country you're living you don't have any rights here. you came here illegally and aren't necessarily even trying to be a citizen you're just shipping your paycheck "home" every month. how does their "foreign" opinion of america count more than, or even as much as, the citizens who have to vote on it and deal with the consequences of the actions of the country?
====
Whoah, whoah, whoah. Do not equate my position in this country with that of someone who snuck in via the back door and is now demanding to be treated fairly.
I am here because I paid an awful lot of money, spent an awful lot of time and allowed your government total access to my life, history and character. I've had chest x-rays, I've had AIDS tests, I've declared every political, charitable or business organisation I have ever been involved with or donated money to, I've had to sit through periods of enforced unemployment. I pay taxes, I can't claim any social security benefits and I wouldn't do it even if I could.
I have been tested left right and centre and I passed, and whether you like it or not your government is happy for me to be here so don't you dare equate me with some mexican border jumper who is shipping his paycheck home.
And my god dude, newsflash - everyone has to deal with the consequences of actions of this country. Not just everyone in america - everyone in the world. Do you not know anything about american and british foreign policy?
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-18 13:50:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My god inion. All those words and you didn't even bother to answer my questions.
First, lose the "we" shit - it's me and you talking here, and you do not represent uber - the only person you can legitimately speak for is yourself.
"i do not think an outsider's opinion has the same weight. i never will."
You say an outsider's opinion doesn't have the same weight, but why would anyone's opinion become more valuable just because they stood up, saluted a flag and recited some words? They'd still have been born in another country, perhaps lived most of their life outside the US....they could know less than nothing about this country and yet you would still value their opinion more?
Where do you draw the "outsider" line? Someone who doesn't live here? Someone who wasn't born here? Someone whose parents weren't born here? Someone whose grandparents weren't born here? We can go back and back and back trying to establish legitimacy and I'll wager even your own countrymen will give you different answers to this, depending on which one they themselves would actually qualify for.
"it's just like i can never truly comprehend what life is like in the uae unless i become a citizen there and follow their laws."
What? Why would you need to recite an oath to understand what life is like? Do you think immigrants go round with blinkers on until the flag magically shows them the way? And why even mention following laws? - non-citizens in this country are still subject to exactly the same laws as you, and even a few more besides. Crime has no place in this discussion.
I lived in my own country for 26 years and for most of those, I was paying attention. And yet, the comments and opinions of visitors and immigrants who are looking at the things I'm accustomed to with fresh eyes have taught me more about my country than anything else. You write these people off far too quickly - because who doesn't benefit from a fresh perspective? They know what it's like to have some of the advantages that you don't and they know what it's like to have some of the disadvantages you don't. How can you not see that that is a good thing? We might actually learn something for fucks sake.
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying as a non-citizen I should have a vote in this country. No way. Way I see it, having to pay taxes without having a say in where they go is just the price to be paid for being allowed in. I've got no problem with it. But I do have a problem with you getting pissy with me for having an opinion on something that's happening in your country because I haven't stood up like a hypocritical cunt (because I'd be one - I'm not christian and I have no plans of killing innocents because some faceless entity tells me to) and saluted a flag.
"you don't want to be a citizen, you despise us and won't work to really change anything first person so why bother sticking around?"
Who says I despise americans? For fucks sake woman, I'm married to one. I'm part of an extended american family and I love them all to bits. Any of them ever need a kidney, they can have mine. That's hardly characteristic of someone who despises them, is it. Again you're making massive assumptions that have a lot more to do with your own predjudices than with my actual beliefs and behaviour. I'm not too fond of small-minded idiots, and you seem to have a lot here (and after this conversation I may have to include you among them), but fuck, so does britian. So does wherever. Only difference is, you let yours have their own show on cable. If I come out with some smart-mouthed quip like "land of the free, eh?" when they won't let me buy beer on a sunday, it's not anything for you to get your knickers in a twist about. It's tongue in cheek. It's not a fucking hate speech. As much as you might like to believe I'm sitting here burning crosses and reading Chomsky, all I've got is a coffee and a smile on my face.
When I say there is no way in hell I'm going to become an american citizen its because there is no way in hell that I'm going to salute what is to me nothing more than a peice of material and make a pledge to a god I don't believe in. And I find it offensive that you would respect me more if I was hypocritical enough to do that. You put the St George Cross or the Union Jack in front of me and I won't salute that either. I'm not going to raise to the level of a deity an inanimate object that just symbolises division instead of the hopelessly interconnected world that we are.
And as for me not "working to really change anything first hand"....I don't want to hear any more of this shit from you. I stepped up to the plate and asked you exactly what you thought I should be doing and fucking promised in front of all these people to do it and prove that I'd done it.
And you couldn't even come up with a list.
You had carte fucking blanche to put anything down and really stand behind what you think a responsible citizen should be doing to improve this country and by bringing nothing to the table you completely invalidate your snicky "you should be doing something other than posting on uber" little miss pisspants bullshit.
The only person on this entire thread so far who has made a suggestion as to what I should be doing outside of uber is a fucking english dude. What does that say to you? I'll tell you what it should say - that maybe you should think again before bringing the criticism of not doing enough to my door. I put myself out there and said I would do anything you think that I, as a legal resident, should be doing and you fucking failed.
"if you really want any sort of respected input you'd become a citizen to get people to listen to you even if you weren't going to vote."
This is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read. If you can't judge my opinion on its own merits without referring to the words stamped in my passport then fuck you, you fucking bigot. I don't want respect from people who can't see beyond their own arbitrarily drawn borders because they're sure as hell not going to get it from me.
Seriously inion, either lay out a conscise list of what a legal resident should be doing to improve this country or keep your stupid little schoolyard snipfests to yourself. Permanently.
(and just in case you're tempted to come back with a one point list of "become a citizen" I have to be a legal permanent resident for three years before I even qualify for naturalisation so you've got plenty to fill in the meantime)
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 13:12:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i still didn't say she didn't have the right. i'm just asking why bother if she doesn't really want to be a citizen. what's the point of complaining and criticizing if you don't care? but if you do care enough to complain why not try and change it by making yourself a factor in the outcome of things?
if she wants to stay an outsider in this, ie not an american, but still live here then i do think her opinion weighs less even if that is ignorant. it reminds me of the protesting illegal immigrants a couple months ago whatever. wow you're standing up for your rights... wait, you're not a citizen of the country you're living you don't have any rights here. you came here illegally and aren't necessarily even trying to be a citizen you're just shipping your paycheck "home" every month. how does their "foreign" opinion of america count more than, or even as much as, the citizens who have to vote on it and deal with the consequences of the actions of the country?
of course she has the right to comment. i didn't dispute that. i won't dispute that. i think everyone in the world has the right to free speech. i personally (notice i said personally as in me and me alone) think that she shouldn't BOTHER to comment if she's not really willing to shoulder the blame. she's living in america, she's stated she doesn't want to be a citizen. this isn't even a comment flying across the pond. her comments amount to moving into my house and telling me to throw out my furniture without paying the rent first.
i do care what other countries think of us. i think our foreign policy is horrible (thanks bush you suck) and that we're knee deep in shit creek and the water's rising as far as the general state of things goes. this is my home. if she doesn't like it, if she thinks being one of us is worse than having a critter gnaw it's way out of her abdomen then why is she here? why is she telling us how to be without thinking about improving us by example or addition of herself to the group?
telling us we suck is, yet again, not the way to do it. she can just leave if she hates it. this is like a dog that walks in, scoots on your carpet and leaves you with a shitstain to stare at as it goes back out the door.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-18 12:37:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
inion, that really was an ignorant response. of course someone that immerses themself in the study of other cultures can begin to understand it. they also have every right to comment on such cultures, whether they be social, political, economical, or what have you, just as much as anyone else does. for you to say that filthy not only doesn't have the understanding (which she might not), but also the right to critisize america is just ascinine. for you not to care what other citizen's think about our country is also completely absurd, and for you to not think you're affected by it makes you look like a woman.
we are very much affected by world opinion. we are very much affected by the attitudes of other nations, just as much as they are affected by ours. think of how well american made products do compared to japanese made products among the wwII generation.
that being said, filthy married a fucking moron, so i can see your resentment to respect her decision making capabilities, much less her understanding of politics or government (especially american politics and government). but still, you've got to be joking that her opinion is invalid, unimportant, or otherwise unwarranted. that's just goddamn gullibility.
and i love you. and i love your digs. i just don't want to see you end up like that damn mr. jacobson and his wretched batch of bunny rabbits. fucking guarding the goddamn pyramid of rocks in on my front lawn like they're some sort of jew-gold. fucking bastards.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 10:16:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
blarg it's too early for me to make complete sense. i missed a couple lines in there, you'll sort it out.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-18 10:07:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 17:24:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
Inion - why do you assume that just because I link a news story on this website, thats where it stops? I've never really understood this idea that because someone mentions something on uber, they don't address it anywhere else. You want me to start copying you in on the shit I send to the media and government?
Let's turn it around. What do you think I should be doing that I'm not? Make a list and carry it out to the letter.
Unless of course you're just being snarky for the sake of it because I've somehow wounded your national pride.
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it's the same thing we say to ets. just give us proof. not everything you do, but something you do and not just something you say. and i don't have much national pride. i think america has a lot to apolgize for but i still think we have a lot going for us that a lot of other nations don't.
i don't really delve into other nation's policies because it's not my business until it affects me or my country. i am an american citizen. i'm second generation on one side, my grandmother immigrated here from ireland and became a citizen. my mother's side came here before the civil war and again went through legal channels to become a citizen.
i'm proud of where i come from and proud of the best of my country. i am equally ashamed for the horrible things done by representatives of my nation and that makes me second guess remaining in this country if nothing changes.
i do not think an outsider's opinion has the same weight. i never will. it's just like i can never truly comprehend what life is like in the uae unless i become a citizen there and follow their laws. i'll still have less of an idea because i wasn't born and raised there. but someone who states their disgust or abhorrence for my country simply because it is america loses any credibility. it's like international students studying at yale or stanford or even my community college that shit all over americans while they're here. why stay here? if you hate it so much, just leave. go back where you came from. if we suck, go somewhere else, no one's keeping you here and if you're going to bitch then we don't want you here anyway.
you don't want to be a citizen, you despise us and won't work to really change anything first person so why bother sticking around? what you should be doing, if you want any sort of control on our policy, is go for dual citizenship and vote. or if our laws are that important to you, give up your british citizenship. if it's not that important, why bother commenting or pointing out all these flaws that you will never try and fix yourself.
if you really want any sort of respected input you'd become a citizen to get people to listen to you even if you weren't going to vote. people in general don't listen to outsiders. they listen less to ones who constantly voice negative opinions about them. i doubt you'd consider my opinion on blair. sure you might lend an ear for a minute, but actually mulling over in your mind anything i'd have to say about him probably wouldn't occur. because really what would i know? i'm not british, i've never voted in england, i wasn't raised there, i don't plan on becoming a citizen there.
why put half-assed effort into doing something you don't like and aren't required to do anyway?
Submitted by Stagger_Lee (user info) at 2006-10-18 09:28:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's a shite state of affairs when this has a worse rating than a picture of a fat motherfucker with a micropenis.
Submitted by HotWillie (user info) at 2006-10-18 00:36:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-18 00:30:05 (#)
Ranking: -2
I call everyone childish names.
It's a habit.
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No worries.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-18 00:30:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I call everyone childish names.
It's a habit.
Submitted by HotWillie (user info) at 2006-10-18 00:28:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 23:44:49 (#)
Ranking: -2
Willie, the difference is I don't post the picks for others. I post 'em because they have a time stamp, and I need that for a nice little side-job in Henderson, NV when I move out there in the middle of the 1st quarter.
Fucking douche nozzle.
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I don't really follow your logic there, chap.
I guess your point is possibly that you need to prove to a potential employer that you made your predictions by a certain time.
That's fine by me. I don't care what anyone posts. But you must realize that posting something of no importance or interest to anyone but yourself may bore the reader.
I read one of your NFL posts, and found it uninteresting. I don't go back to them for that reason, and I'm pretty sure I didn't find it necessary to call you a childish name. I could be wrong, but I doubt I even rated it. I don't believe I've ever rated you at all, actually.
I do find it amusing that, if the potential employer must verify your work by looking at the site, he or she would also likely see all the snarky insults people leave about you.
I feel a little sorry for you sometimes because you seem to spend a lot of time on this site and others seem to enjoy insulting you, but not knowing you personally, I have no idea whether this actually bothers you or not.
Good luck with the job, however it works out.
Cheers.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-18 00:20:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
And it's not a "hey, I get to pick all these games ofor all these people and be some big important prick" kind of job. It's a "Well, you'll be a part of a group of 5-6 people that sorts out info and analyzes games each week and make $100 a week" for an off strip book. Sidework while the hotel gets finished.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-18 00:15:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Well, Apollo, it's been an open invite for anyone on any of the posts to post theirs as well before the start of games. No one has yet.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-10-18 00:08:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
OH MY GOD GREENING YOU ARE PATHETIC.
YOU LEAN ON A KNOWLEDGE OF NFL AND ARE EVEN SHIT AT THAT.
I HAVE WATCHED AMERICAN FOOTBALL FOR ABOUT 2 WEEKS AND I BET I CAN PREDICT MORE CORRECT SCORES THAN YOU.
I BET YOU $500.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 23:54:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I never said there wasn't an interesting discussion.
I read some of it, enjoyed some of it, and got generally bored.
Doesn't mean I can't comment as I see fit or anything, though.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-10-17 23:51:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 20:36:38 (#)
Ranking: -2
No, I meant the posting of shit no one really cares about with a slightly pretientious tone that makes it seem that you see yourself as above everyone else because we don't give a fuck and you do. """
everyone is above you fat man.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 23:50:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
He's right though jay - there was an interesting discussion going on here for a spell. You weren't part of it and I'm sure we can all predict to the syllable what your next response is going to be so do your dignity a favour and pipe down.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 23:44:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Willie, the difference is I don't post the picks for others. I post 'em because they have a time stamp, and I need that for a nice little side-job in Henderson, NV when I move out there in the middle of the 1st quarter.
Fucking douche nozzle.
Submitted by HotWillie (user info) at 2006-10-17 23:35:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 20:36:38 (#)
Ranking: -2
No, I meant the posting of shit no one really cares about with a slightly pretientious tone that makes it seem that you see yourself as above everyone else because we don't give a fuck and you do.
------------------------
Says the guy that posts the boring as all fuck NFL predictions.
At least the posters and (some) reviewers here had a discussion about something important and thought provoking, regardless of the position taken.
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2006-10-17 22:20:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:22:40 (#)
It was this part that got me: Bush signed the new law "in memory of the victims of September 11."
-=-=-=-=-
It's true. In a stirring Rose Garden ceremony he poured a 40 out on the curb for his homies who couldn't be here tonight. Then he had Karl Rove dig up some dirt on a couple of Democratic congressmen, "in memory of the victims of Mark Foley".
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 22:19:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Lesson learned, indo - I shall cross reference before posting the next time I have a narcissistic urge.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:54:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:06:35 (#)
Ranking: 0
Because then I couldn't "post shit no one really cares about with a slightly pretientious tone that makes it seem that I see myself as above everyone else because they don't give a fuck and I do"?
--------------------
I don't know who you are quoting there, but I think they hit the nail on the head, well at least the part about you a lot of people do care. If you were that worried about what was going on you would quote relaible sources.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:22:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:11:47 (#)
Ranking: 0
"The only way accountability doesn't exist is if you believe that the military is not committed to it," Snow said. (Press Secretary, Tony Snow)
not that i disagree with you on this, of course, it's just i think you're a cunt. but i was reading the cnn article on the bill being signed today, and this is the line that closes it.
is this guy fucking kidding?
====
It was this part that got me: Bush signed the new law "in memory of the victims of September 11."
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:11:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Was that a lame attempt at a backhanded insult?
The judges are unanimous and DO say it was an attempt, but they're split on whether or not it works.
The deciding vote is in, and the fat East german bitch says no.
Sorry, thanks for trying.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:11:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"The only way accountability doesn't exist is if you believe that the military is not committed to it," Snow said. (Press Secretary, Tony Snow)
not that i disagree with you on this, of course, it's just i think you're a cunt. but i was reading the cnn article on the bill being signed today, and this is the line that closes it.
is this guy fucking kidding?
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 21:06:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-10-17 20:45:38 (#)
Ranking: -2
Personally I don't give a shit what you do. If you are really concerned about the world, or think you have something important to say about AMerica why don't you use articles that aren't completely full of shit?
===
Because then I couldn't "post shit no one really cares about with a slightly pretientious tone that makes it seem that I see myself as above everyone else because they don't give a fuck and I do"?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-10-17 20:51:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/13/AR2006101301457.html
"Mohammad Munaf, 53, has been in U.S. custody since May 23, 2005, when he was arrested during a military raid to rescue the Romanian journalists nearly two months after they were snatched. Authorities have alleged that Munaf -- who had ushered the journalists into Iraq and was acting as their guide and translator -- posed as a kidnap victim but was actually involved in a conspiracy for ransom and led them into a trap.
Military officials have said in sworn statements that Munaf confessed to elements of the crime and helped arrange the kidnapping. Munaf has been held at Camp Cropper, where the U.S. military keeps high-value detainees on behalf of Multinational Force-Iraq."
Of course this doesn't agree with this
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061013/ap_on_go_ot/us_iraq_american "The Romanian government has accused Munaf of assisting in the March 2005 kidnapping. He was held with the three journalists for 55 days before they were released, his attorneys said. The Romanian Embassy turned Munaf over to U.S. authorities in Baghdad." But it does imply the Romanians do believe he is guilty.
Although those articles don't match up either one is more credible than some dumb slut who can't be bothered to fact check her sources abotu the number of executions in Iraq.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-10-17 20:45:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:49:30 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 17:24:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
Let's turn it around. What do you think I should be doing that I'm not? Make a list and I'll carry it out to the letter.
Unless of course you're just being snarky for the sake of it because I've somehow wounded your national pride.
===
On the offchance that inion doesn't rise to the challenge, I'll extend this to everyone. Perfect opportunity for anyone who thinks I'm derelict in my duties by not becoming an american citizen to get something out of this.
What should I, as an american resident, be doing to "affect change"? Suggestions please.
-------------------------------
Personally I don't give a shit what you do. If you are really concerned about the world, or think you have something important to say about AMerica why don't you use articles that aren't completely full of shit?
First off there is no mention of the names of the Attorneys or anyone else who can attest to the appearance of the two mysterious military officers. There is no source for the whoever in the Romanian Govt said they had made no desire for his death expressed to Iraq (this is especially worrying seeing as how later in the article their source says they have not contacted anyone from ROmania).
The one person they do interview says, "The death penalty is very -- as I understand it, it has been handed down very infrequently, only on one or two occasions in Iraq."
It takes five minutes of research to prove he is lying or doesn't know a godamn thing about Iarq.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=35096 "Since August 2004, when the then interim Iraqi government reinstated capital punishment, 150 to 200 people have been sentenced to death. Though exact numbers are unavailable, more than 50 people are thought to have been executed since then, according to reports received by the UN."
Basically it is a shitty article that obviously has not undergone any fact checking. Shitty reporting like this makes it hard for me to get excited about alleged atrocities.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 20:36:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No, I meant the posting of shit no one really cares about with a slightly pretientious tone that makes it seem that you see yourself as above everyone else because we don't give a fuck and you do.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 20:05:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 19:58:23 (#)
Ranking: -2
It almost seems as though ETS wrote this, and FA posted it.
===
What, all of both the sentences that aren't copied and pasted from another site?
Usually the other way around, as testified by this classic : http://www.ubersite.com/m/64424
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-17 19:58:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It almost seems as though ETS wrote this, and FA posted it.
Seriously, I had no idea getting the spunk of a conspiracy nut in your eye turned you fucking retarded.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2006-10-17 19:32:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:49:30 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 17:24:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
Let's turn it around. What do you think I should be doing that I'm not? Make a list and I'll carry it out to the letter.
Unless of course you're just being snarky for the sake of it because I've somehow wounded your national pride.
===
On the offchance that inion doesn't rise to the challenge, I'll extend this to everyone. Perfect opportunity for anyone who thinks I'm derelict in my duties by not becoming an american citizen to get something out of this.
What should I, as an american resident, be doing to "affect change"? Suggestions please.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Within the usa I think the best bet is to try to move towards independance for your area/state, I'll bet there are small movements for this all over the place you could take over/assist, even if its not successful if it gathers enough momentum to grab the headlines and get the central govt. worried it could shake things up I reckon, and if it is successful then you have the opportunity to shape a whole new country.
I think they are used to ignoring letters and protests so I wouldn't bother with that, but its up to you.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:52:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
i'm gonna go ahead and not give a shit about all this.
-2 for getting married with a loser you met on the internet.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:49:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 17:24:34 (#)
Ranking: 0
Let's turn it around. What do you think I should be doing that I'm not? Make a list and I'll carry it out to the letter.
Unless of course you're just being snarky for the sake of it because I've somehow wounded your national pride.
===
On the offchance that inion doesn't rise to the challenge, I'll extend this to everyone. Perfect opportunity for anyone who thinks I'm derelict in my duties by not becoming an american citizen to get something out of this.
What should I, as an american resident, be doing to "affect change"? Suggestions please.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:44:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:27:51 (#)
Ranking: 0
Ahh, there's nothing quite like seeing people of generally the same mindset argue over the details. This is our defensive world; the world where you shoot first and ask questions after you've made eye contact in passing a suitable amount of times.
Who here likes GWBush and the direction he's leading everyone? There's something we can agree on. Unity. I'm sure people here can at least understand what Mr. and Mrs. Linzy are fighting against in the very least, and while you may disprove of their methods, I'm sure you disprove more of the opposite possiblity (pro bush, more war, fuck the world). If you're so quick to throw out the "why aren't you doing anything?" card then I must ask, What on earth does "doing anything" include? Is it silently watching the television as it all unfolds and shaking your head in dismay? Is it arguing against any person who dares bring the subject up in your presence? Maybe we should all just be good citizens and take it up the ass all the while cursing under our breath.
"Ubersite is not the place", Indeed. I know I personally wouldn't go to a zoo to talk politics with the apes. I would, however, talk about politics with anyone who was in the same cage as I am. Someone who is literate, understands enough about the world, and wants to confirm their views with those around them.
Don't get so boggled down in the means to end this quandary that you forget the end you seek.
Take an insult, people. It's not a terrorist attack or stereotypical bank robbery (you're not dying), it's a sling of words assembled to crudely bring your attention to something. We could all be polite, but then one person could come along and rule the world with just a butter knife. So, we adopt the American dream: It's mine, fuck you. Don't expect civil politics and pretty words with this system; we should all expect personal attacks and take them in stride. When you're defensive they've got you on your heels. (Personally, I loathe what I've just described but the system is viciously circular)
As far as the article is concerned, it's good to know about, but it's awfully impersonal and hard to understand the real situation in the sense that I highly doubt anyone really cares about this man's trial moreso they're using this as a catalyst against US military politics (this was pointed out by Coyote already, I think).
Such a blame filled system, no? It's like living in a house made of glass that's long shattered and we're all standing outside trying to figure out who's done it and how we can protect the few shards that survived rather than just picking up and moving into a more stable house. Bleh, I'm done.
---
Abso-fucking-lutely brilliant.
People like you make me happy.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:38:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Um, mexican and canadian nationals have been executed here in the states on numerous occasions. The fact that they were guilty didn't stop their respective countries from going to bat for them. This man was a terrorist, and his home nation (the US) recommended he be executed in recognition of his guilt. You sleep less well....why?
Submitted by paint_it_black (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:36:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2006-10-17 15:23:09 (#)
Ranking: 2
Looks like you caught whatever ETS has
__________
Whats that,
Not being an ignorant fuck?
Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-17 18:27:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ahh, there's nothing quite like seeing people of generally the same mindset argue over the details. This is our defensive world; the world where you shoot first and ask questions after you've made eye contact in passing a suitable amount of times.
Who here likes GWBush and the direction he's leading everyone? There's something we can agree on. Unity. I'm sure people here can at least understand what Mr. and Mrs. Linzy are fighting against in the very least, and while you may disprove of their methods, I'm sure you disprove more of the opposite possiblity (pro bush, more war, fuck the world). If you're so quick to throw out the "why aren't you doing anything?" card then I must ask, What on earth does "doing anything" include? Is it silently watching the television as it all unfolds and shaking your head in dismay? Is it arguing against any person who dares bring the subject up in your presence? Maybe we should all just be good citizens and take it up the ass all the while cursing under our breath.
"Ubersite is not the place", Indeed. I know I personally wouldn't go to a zoo to talk politics with the apes. I would, however, talk about politics with anyone who was in the same cage as I am. Someone who is literate, understands enough about the world, and wants to confirm their views with those around them.
Don't get so boggled down in the means to end this quandary that you forget the end you seek.
Take an insult, people. It's not a terrorist attack or stereotypical bank robbery (you're not dying), it's a sling of words assembled to crudely bring your attention to something. We could all be polite, but then one person could come along and rule the world with just a butter knife. So, we adopt the American dream: It's mine, fuck you. Don't expect civil politics and pretty words with this system; we should all expect personal attacks and take them in stride. When you're defensive they've got you on your heels. (Personally, I loathe what I've just described but the system is viciously circular)
As far as the article is concerned, it's good to know about, but it's awfully impersonal and hard to understand the real situation in the sense that I highly doubt anyone really cares about this man's trial moreso they're using this as a catalyst against US military politics (this was pointed out by Coyote already, I think).
Such a blame filled system, no? It's like living in a house made of glass that's long shattered and we're all standing outside trying to figure out who's done it and how we can protect the few shards that survived rather than just picking up and moving into a more stable house. Bleh, I'm done.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 17:27:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Pfft. That's "make a list and I'LL carry it out to the letter"
I seem to have developed an annoying habit of leaving out the most important words in a sentence. Like 'pigfucker'
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 17:24:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Inion - why do you assume that just because I link a news story on this website, thats where it stops? I've never really understood this idea that because someone mentions something on uber, they don't address it anywhere else. You want me to start copying you in on the shit I send to the media and government?
Let's turn it around. What do you think I should be doing that I'm not? Make a list and carry it out to the letter.
Unless of course you're just being snarky for the sake of it because I've somehow wounded your national pride.
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2006-10-17 17:04:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well that's fair enough, I guess. I can imagine a few scenarios.
And I don't actually think I disagree with you about the power of the vote vs media reform.
I'm actually going to be in Kentucky next week. Shame I won't be just a little closer, I would take you up on that pint.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:55:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:42:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm not talking about legal benefits, and I don't mean to imply that I think you necessarily *should* apply for citizenship. I have no idea what your future plans are, and if it means giving up your British citizenship and I were in the same predicament, I probably wouldn't be inclined to pledge my allegiance to ANY country. As a citizen who has weighed my opinion on the government against my love for my family and my home, I know there is a myriad of things to hate about the current state of American affairs. I just don't think it helps matters when someone chooses to indefinitely participate in life with our people, our culture, our natural environment, and then implies the thought of becoming a citizen is something to detest. Why not England instead? Are you interested in making a change, or are you just making the most of cohabitating under this horrid regime so you can be with your man, who also seems to find it all so reprehensible?
Rhetorical questions, really, if you wish.
===
I know it's rhetorical but I still feel a strange urge to answer it. I'm confident I could probably ease your concerns and criticism if I let you in on the full story but that's not something I can really do on a public forum. If you ever find yourself in Indiana I'll lay it out for you over a beer, can't say fairer than that.
As a sidenote, there's an assumption here that the only way to affect change is through voting. Sure, that's the biggest part of it and perhaps I'm naive in this view but I don't think it's everything. How people vote is largely a product of what they're exposed to and what information they have at their disposal. I'm almost tempted to say we need media reform before we need political reform, but I haven't really thought that through to conclusion yet, so it might be a retarded statement.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:53:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:05:08 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-17 15:37:04 (#)
Ranking: 0
if you really have no intention of becoming a citizen that means you have no intention of voting anyway. why bother commenting on american policy you now have the ability to affect but refuse to?
====
Why would I give up my citizenship and my right to live and vote in the country that pays my wages, provides my healthcare and will dole out my pension just so I can cast a vote in an electoral system that has already been proven to be massively flawed and borderline corrupt? You've got too simplistic a view of this - I'm not "refusing to affect change" I'm refusing to give up the right to affect change somewhere where it has a far better chance of actually counting for something.
I'll comment on anything I please, regardless of where in the world it occurs, so you might as well just get used to it sweetheart.
----------
dual citizenship.
and i didn't say don't comment, i said "why bother." it's the same thing your new hubby does. comment comment comment - don't act. the same excuse too - the government is corrupt. and what you'll be flying back to england or doing absentee voting on policy that no longer really affects you because you're not living there anyway? or is it going to be half the year here, half the year there? why not just move him to england and call it a day if you both hate it here and are so digusted by all of us. that way you can be completely inactive in your own government and he can completely forget that he was inactive in ours.
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:43:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:34:50 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:24:00 (#)
Ranking: 0
So, an English expat I know told me she's not allowed to vote in the UK anymore because she's lived in the US for too many years; apparently the law was changed under Blair because long-term expats tend not to be Labour supporters. If that's the case, then that really fucking sucks.
===
Heh, what a beautiful irony if I end up not being able to vote anywhere.
Some of the current requirements to register for overseas voting are silly in the extreme but they didn't clue me in on any kind of time limit to it. I'll check it out, thanks.
-=-=-=-=-
It's always possible that by "not allowed to vote" my friend actually meant "asked to follow some ridiculous rules that are beneath me"...
==========
I live in an area where if it isn't on Fox News, nobody knows about it, and perhaps I'm overinformed by that.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Everytime I think about the price of housing, the middle of the country starts looking good. Then I remember there are places where people actually watch Fox News for other than humor purposes.
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:42:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-17 16:16:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Oooh, this is a pretty interesting comment - I've only cut it down to the bare bone for space.
What benefits exactly are you referring to? I see the obvious one that I can leave anytime I wish, but other than that....I don't want to make assumptions on what you're talking about so lay it out for me because I suspect I might learn something from it.
==
I'm not talking about legal benefits, and I don't mean to imply that I think you necessarily *should* apply for citizenship. I have no idea what your future plans are, and if it means giving up your British citizenship and I were in the same predicament, I probably wouldn't be inclined to pledge my allegiance to ANY country. As a citizen who has we