Thank Fucking God That Someone In The Media Is Doing A Good Job (1238 hits)
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Submitted by <> (View user info) at 2006-10-19 01:10:34 EDT
I can't link you directly to the video, but you'll find it right here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15321167/
Text below for those who prefer to read
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We have lived as if in a trance.
We have lived as people in fear.
And now—our rights and our freedoms in peril—we slowly awake to learn that we have been afraid of the wrong thing.
Therefore, tonight have we truly become the inheritors of our American legacy.
For, on this first full day that the Military Commissions Act is in force, we now face what our ancestors faced, at other times of exaggerated crisis and melodramatic fear-mongering:
A government more dangerous to our liberty, than is the enemy it claims to protect us from.
We have been here before—and we have been here before led here—by men better and wiser and nobler than George W. Bush.
We have been here when President John Adams insisted that the Alien and Sedition Acts were necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use those acts to jail newspaper editors.
American newspaper editors, in American jails, for things they wrote about America.
We have been here when President Woodrow Wilson insisted that the Espionage Act was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that Act to prosecute 2,000 Americans, especially those he disparaged as "Hyphenated Americans," most of whom were guilty only of advocating peace in a time of war.
American public speakers, in American jails, for things they said about America.
And we have been here when President Franklin D. Roosevelt insisted that Executive Order 9066 was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that order to imprison and pauperize 110,000 Americans while his man in charge, General DeWitt, told Congress: "It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen—he is still a Japanese."
American citizens, in American camps, for something they neither wrote nor said nor did, but for the choices they or their ancestors had made about coming to America.
Each of these actions was undertaken for the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.
And each was a betrayal of that for which the president who advocated them claimed to be fighting.
Adams and his party were swept from office, and the Alien and Sedition Acts erased.
Many of the very people Wilson silenced survived him, and one of them even ran to succeed him, and got 900,000 votes, though his presidential campaign was conducted entirely from his jail cell.
And Roosevelt's internment of the Japanese was not merely the worst blight on his record, but it would necessitate a formal apology from the government of the United States to the citizens of the United States whose lives it ruined.
The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.
In times of fright, we have been only human.
We have let Roosevelt's "fear of fear itself" overtake us.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement
We have listened to the little voice inside that has said, "the wolf is at the door; this will be temporary; this will be precise; this too shall pass."
We have accepted that the only way to stop the terrorists is to let the government become just a little bit like the terrorists.
Just the way we once accepted that the only way to stop the Soviets was to let the government become just a little bit like the Soviets.
Or substitute the Japanese.
Or the Germans.
Or the Socialists.
Or the Anarchists.
Or the Immigrants.
Or the British.
Or the Aliens.
The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.
And, always, always wrong.
"With the distance of history, the questions will be narrowed and few: Did this generation of Americans take the threat seriously, and did we do what it takes to defeat that threat?"
Wise words.
And ironic ones, Mr. Bush.
Your own, of course, yesterday, in signing the Military Commissions Act.
You spoke so much more than you know, Sir.
Sadly—of course—the distance of history will recognize that the threat this generation of Americans needed to take seriously was you.
We have a long and painful history of ignoring the prophecy attributed to Benjamin Franklin that "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
But even within this history we have not before codified the poisoning of habeas corpus, that wellspring of protection from which all essential liberties flow.
You, sir, have now befouled that spring.
You, sir, have now given us chaos and called it order.
You, sir, have now imposed subjugation and called it freedom.
For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.
And — again, Mr. Bush — all of them, wrong.
We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has said it is unacceptable to compare anything this country has ever done to anything the terrorists have ever done.
We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has insisted again that "the United States does not torture. It's against our laws and it's against our values" and who has said it with a straight face while the pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison and the stories of Waterboarding figuratively fade in and out, around him.
We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who may now, if he so decides, declare not merely any non-American citizens "unlawful enemy combatants" and ship them somewhere—anywhere -- but may now, if he so decides, declare you an "unlawful enemy combatant" and ship you somewhere - anywhere.
And if you think this hyperbole or hysteria, ask the newspaper editors when John Adams was president or the pacifists when Woodrow Wilson was president or the Japanese at Manzanar when Franklin Roosevelt was president.
And if you somehow think habeas corpus has not been suspended for American citizens but only for everybody else, ask yourself this: If you are pulled off the street tomorrow, and they call you an alien or an undocumented immigrant or an "unlawful enemy combatant"—exactly how are you going to convince them to give you a court hearing to prove you are not? Do you think this attorney general is going to help you?
This President now has his blank check.
He lied to get it.
He lied as he received it.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement
Is there any reason to even hope he has not lied about how he intends to use it nor who he intends to use it against?
"These military commissions will provide a fair trial," you told us yesterday, Mr. Bush, "in which the accused are presumed innocent, have access to an attorney and can hear all the evidence against them."
"Presumed innocent," Mr. Bush?
The very piece of paper you signed as you said that, allows for the detainees to be abused up to the point just before they sustain "serious mental and physical trauma" in the hope of getting them to incriminate themselves, and may no longer even invoke The Geneva Conventions in their own defense.
"Access to an attorney," Mr. Bush?
Lieutenant Commander Charles Swift said on this program, Sir, and to the Supreme Court, that he was only granted access to his detainee defendant on the promise that the detainee would plead guilty.
"Hearing all the evidence," Mr. Bush?
The Military Commissions Act specifically permits the introduction of classified evidence not made available to the defense.
Your words are lies, Sir.
They are lies that imperil us all.
"One of the terrorists believed to have planned the 9/11 attacks," you told us yesterday, "said he hoped the attacks would be the beginning of the end of America."
That terrorist, sir, could only hope.
Not his actions, nor the actions of a ceaseless line of terrorists (real or imagined), could measure up to what you have wrought.
Habeas corpus? Gone.
The Geneva Conventions? Optional.
The moral force we shined outwards to the world as an eternal beacon, and inwards at ourselves as an eternal protection? Snuffed out.
These things you have done, Mr. Bush, they would be "the beginning of the end of America."
And did it even occur to you once, sir — somewhere in amidst those eight separate, gruesome, intentional, terroristic invocations of the horrors of 9/11 -- that with only a little further shift in this world we now know—just a touch more repudiation of all of that for which our patriots died --- did it ever occur to you once that in just 27 months and two days from now when you leave office, some irresponsible future president and a "competent tribunal" of lackeys would be entitled, by the actions of your own hand, to declare the status of "unlawful enemy combatant" for -- and convene a Military Commission to try -- not John Walker Lindh, but George Walker Bush?
For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.
And doubtless, Sir, all of them—as always—wrong.
=====
Got an opinion on this? I'm not going to complain if you put it here, but you might want to address it to Countdown too. Mine will simply read "thank you"
countdown.at.msnbc.com
User Reviews
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2006-10-19 16:16:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
loki and caul are my heroes.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2006-10-19 16:00:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What is this 'we' bullshit?
I think this is Bradley, admit it, you had some surprise sex with her in the basement, and things went horribly wrong, you buried her in the basement, and now you're just posing as her until the heat dies down.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-10-19 15:52:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"The very piece of paper you signed as you said that, allows for the detainees to be abused up to the point just before they sustain "serious mental and physical trauma" in the hope of getting them to incriminate themselves, and may no longer even invoke The Geneva Conventions in their own defense. "
They weren't protected by the geneva convention before were they?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-10-19 15:44:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Great cut and paste...
Submitted by Sinistral (user info) at 2006-10-19 15:38:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm going to send this to several of my friends.
It's getting close to midterm elections and down here in Georgia I want to throw a brick through the TV everytime I see something about the gubernatorial race. In the last debate Republican governor Sonny Purdue called Mark Taylor Pinnochio and Mark Taylor said that if Purdue were one of the seven dwarves he'd be 'greedy.'
The funny thing was that the Libertarian candidate was standing in between them silently and when he spoke he simply said, "Here we go again."
After the debate the percentage of undecided voters went up, and the percentage for the Libertarian candidate went up five percentage points to 9%.
I hate everything to do with political parties and at this point in the election I'd rather not have a governor than have either Purdue or Taylor.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2006-10-19 15:12:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Oh, good ole patriot Americans. Sipping their Pabst Blue Ribbon, eyeing up their cousin.
*sigh*
America is going to hell and we don't even get the convineince of a hand basket.
As I said before, what is ruining America is personal agenda. Every person in every office of government has personal agenda. It's a fact of life. They keep getting voted in and the citizen suffers.
"That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Prudence indeed, will dictate, that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security."
I think it's high time we exercise what the signers of the Declaration of Independence belived.
Submitted by Coyote (user info) at 2006-10-19 14:43:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I thought I caught something on Olbermann the other night along the lines of "if the courts are allowed to hear a challenge, they'll probably rule to strike out that part of the act that says the courts aren't allowed to hear any challenges", which made me laugh out loud. But maybe I dreamed it.
I'm not too worked up about the implications of the act though. The constitutionally-weakest parts are not critical to the prosecution of terrorists, alien or otherwise, and were obviously chucked in there to cover the president and those under his direction who have *already* held people illegally and used dubious interrogation methods and denied appeals, etc. That's going to protect people from prosecution for awhile, until the court or a new congress gets around to fixing the law... and by that time, Bush will be about to leave office and ready to start issuing presidential pardons. It's a cheap stopgap and a little scrap of paper that Republican office-seekers can clutch in their fists before the election to try to paint their opponents as weak on terror.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2006-10-19 14:41:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-10-19 13:14:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:15:27 (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:01:15 (#)
Ranking: 0
"the most tenacious and evil ideologically driven enemy we've ever fought!"
-domenad
"tell that to the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy or Iwo Jima."
-ETS
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They agree with me. They never strapped bombs to their own children, never hid in schools, or hospitals, never sheltered behind those that could not defend themselves. They were warriors, and the men that stormed Iwo agreed with me. Oh, and most of the men who went to German Stalags came back with their heads intact, or didnt' you know that? Next argument please, if you have one.
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Bit of a flaw in your argument Dom,
Alot of PoW's ended up in German concentration camps. The numbers are in the thousands.
The Japanese had suicide pilots and Americans who ended up in their camps did not always keep their heads.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-19 13:04:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by nitty34 (user info) at 2006-10-19 10:37:43 (#)
Ranking: -2
Al Qaeda? Habeus corpus?
Brilliant idea.
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FilthyAssistant? Habeas corpus?
Brilliant idea.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2006-10-19 13:00:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You can find a bunch of Olbermann's rants here:
http://www.truthout.org/
Submitted by Nobb (user info) at 2006-10-19 12:25:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wow, I can't believe how retarded Domenuts is, and that he has the gaul to label others as idiots. You completely missed the point you fucking retard. Christ.
Submitted by MyTeeOne (user info) at 2006-10-19 11:50:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Interesting article. Bush is an idiot and I hate having him as the pres. He sucks at diplomacy. That is my opinion and that is all I have to say.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-19 11:44:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-19 11:24:08 (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-10-19 09:08:38 (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep in mind that the important thing is that W is a Christian and therefore a vote for W is a vote for Jesus.
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Every single Christian I know, with the exception of my grandmother, thinks this way. One of my best friends thinks this way. We get into a lot of drunk debates. He's an intelligent person, and a very good and genuine person too, but boy, do we disagree on some fundamentals.
+2 for the article.
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i like jesus, i don't like bush. i would never vote for someone based on their religious affiliation because that doesn't mean they actually have anything to do with the principles. i don't understand why bush = jesus in the minds of a lot of people. i think jesus would lay the smackdown on him. kinda like in the temple, just trash the oval office or something in a fit of anger.
retarded voting habits make me hate elections.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-19 11:27:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The Christians who are serious about it, I mean. I know a lot of them, and they are good people. I just don't get it, man.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2006-10-19 11:24:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-10-19 09:08:38 (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep in mind that the important thing is that W is a Christian and therefore a vote for W is a vote for Jesus.
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Every single Christian I know, with the exception of my grandmother, thinks this way. One of my best friends thinks this way. We get into a lot of drunk debates. He's an intelligent person, and a very good and genuine person too, but boy, do we disagree on some fundamentals.
+2 for the article.
Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-19 10:51:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:55:15 (#)
Ranking: -2
Why, that's a brilliant idea! Take an idea that has won us virtually every war we've ever fought in and one that has been practiced by every single nation at war since the dawn of time and pitch it out the windown when faced with the most tenacious and evil ideologically driven enemy we've ever fought!
______
hahahahaha
I like how you're so proud of the number of wars you've fought to the point that you can say you "virtually" won them all. I guess Iraq has been virtually won; Afghanistan too! It's not like there're still countries in there cleaning up your country's mess properly.
"Whatever helps you sleep at night, bitch."-Stewie
You're right though, ETS, this guy's got some issues.
Submitted by nitty34 (user info) at 2006-10-19 10:37:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Al Qaeda? Habeus corpus?
Brilliant idea.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2006-10-19 10:05:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so are you two going to switch accounts back soon or what?
Submitted by congo (user info) at 2006-10-19 09:54:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm getting tired of seeing that Ben Franklin "quote." From Wikiquote:
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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document, which uses an archaic form of "s": "Thoſe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchaſe a little Temporary Safety, deſerve neither Liberty nor Safety." Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
Many variants derived from this phrase have arisen and have usually been incorrectly attributed to Franklin:
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security"
"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither"
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."
"If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both."
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
"He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither"
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2006-10-19 09:49:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS got the password eh?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2006-10-19 09:14:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-10-19 09:08:38 (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep in mind that the important thing is that W is a Christian and therefore a vote for W is a vote for Jesus.
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this makes me sad because a lot of people see it as true.
:( <------ sad face
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2006-10-19 09:08:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Keep in mind that the important thing is that W is a Christian and therefore a vote for W is a vote for Jesus.
Submitted by corn_nugget (user info) at 2006-10-19 08:48:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
your ratings have tanked since you got married. I think it's a conspiracy.
Submitted by paint_it_black (user info) at 2006-10-19 06:14:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
anyone who -2'd this post is a fucking idiot.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2006-10-19 05:11:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Can someone link me to a good plain source of information on this new presidential power development, because I now have the time to read about it.
Submitted by thorpe (user info) at 2006-10-19 05:09:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I like the vibe going in these reviews.
Submitted by wardy (user info) at 2006-10-19 04:09:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
so what did you contribute to this? nothing? you mean i could have just seen it on my own?
nice work.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:45:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
i love me some poorly done analogies with nazi germany.
your president isn't supreme chancellor. fuck, he has less power than our prime minister.
for instance, trudeau sent the army marching and allowed detaining anyone because of a handful of inbred extremists. even with fucking TANKS rolling down our streets, journalists were still adressing their concern instead of screaming about facism and crying: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-7_a2wa2dd4 watch it. it's the exact same debate but with a worse situation. still, we were calmer and it's not like the country turned into a totalitarian regime.
it's just an example. try to look at this issue tomorrow when you will have gotten some sleep, drank some tea and fucked your wife. maybe you'll sound less like a paranoid idiot who makes bullshit comparisons.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:20:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:57:03 (#)
Ranking: 2
What our president did yesterday is more harmful to our country and our soul as a nation than anything a supposed 'terrorist' could do with an arsenal of nuclear bombs.
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Ah I see. More harmful than, shall we say, a president arbitrarily deciding that a racial group MIGHT pose a threat and ordering those individuals into concentration camps? Because that's what Franklin Roosevelt did - confine tens of thousands of innocent American citizens to camps soley due to their ancestry. Bush is confining men caught on the battlefield trying to kill our troops, but what he did was "more harmful to our country and our soul blah blah blah." In other words, we've been WAAAAAY past this point, achieved victory, and come out of it all smelling like a rose shoved up Heidi Klum's squack. And you claim to know history. Pah! What a laugh riot.
You have any more dumb arguments for me to dismantle? I'm on thyroid meds, so I can't sleep.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:15:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Yes, I did.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:14:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Rad, did you drunk text me a couple of weeks ago informing me that you were drunk?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:14:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:06:11 (#)
Ranking: 2
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?
===
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:10:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I am so drunk dialing you guy this weekend
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:06:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?
I'm so disgusted with this. There are no words.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 03:03:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:56:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:51:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:11:07 (#)
Ranking: 0
his points are ok but i think the delivery is nothing but good old american melodrama.
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Have you ever spoken to a wide audience in your life, Caul? Do you know what that's like? More to the point, have you ever spoken to a wide audience while your country was going down the shitter before your eyes? I think you'd be a little "melodramatic" in your speech too.
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no, but i've watched other medias. americans seriously need to calm down, regardless of political leanings, you all need a nap.
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Honestly, man...you don't know what you're talking about. As much as you think you might be able to extrapolate from all you've seen on MTv and Andy Griffith reruns about what the American experience entails, you haven't the slightest idea, obviously, how serious this all is right now.
You might remember, I made a post a while back about what you would do if you lived in 1933 Germany. How would you use your voice? WOULD you use your voice? That is the kind of thing we're faced with right now. Some of you might not see it. I don't doubt some of you will never see it. But the fact is, our president now has the power to label you a terrorist and detain you without charge, without trial, without even telling you why you're being held.
Forgive us if that's a little NEW to our national fucking experience, man. And excuse the fuck out of us if we act slightly "melodramatic" when discussing something we never thought we'd see in our lifetime in our own fucking country!
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:57:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It doesn't matter, domenad...Anthony...whether the men who stormed those beaches "agree with you" or not, which is a supposition on your part anyway. What matters is that you're WRONG in your assertion that this is the gravest danger we've ever faced. You're subscribing to the propaganda as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if you call me insane or not. The fact is, it doesn't even matter at this point whether our governemt was involved in 9/11. What our president did yesterday is more harmful to our country and our soul as a nation than anything a supposed 'terrorist' could do with an arsenal of nuclear bombs.
You don't see it now, but you will someday very soon. I guarantee you that. Actually, on second thought, I wouldn't put it past you to keep your eyes shut till the bitter end. Seems to be what's most comfortable to you.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:56:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:51:19 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:11:07 (#)
Ranking: 0
his points are ok but i think the delivery is nothing but good old american melodrama.
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Have you ever spoken to a wide audience in your life, Caul? Do you know what that's like? More to the point, have you ever spoken to a wide audience while your country was going down the shitter before your eyes? I think you'd be a little "melodramatic" in your speech too.
===
no, but i've watched other medias. americans seriously need to calm down, regardless of political leanings, you all need a nap.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:51:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:11:07 (#)
Ranking: 0
his points are ok but i think the delivery is nothing but good old american melodrama.
------------------
Have you ever spoken to a wide audience in your life, Caul? Do you know what that's like? More to the point, have you ever spoken to a wide audience while your country was going down the shitter before your eyes? I think you'd be a little "melodramatic" in your speech too.
Submitted by maiorano84 (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:35:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
+2 because at least there are people out there who know how to fucking speak.
Thank God for that, at the very least.
Submitted by Serious_Melvin (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:25:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fan, tastic.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:15:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:01:15 (#)
Ranking: 0
"the most tenacious and evil ideologically driven enemy we've ever fought!"
-domenad
"tell that to the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy or Iwo Jima."
-ETS
-----
They agree with me. They never strapped bombs to their own children, never hid in schools, or hospitals, never sheltered behind those that could not defend themselves. They were warriors, and the men that stormed Iwo agreed with me. Oh, and most of the men who went to German Stalags came back with their heads intact, or didnt' you know that? Next argument please, if you have one.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:11:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
his points are ok but i think the delivery is nothing but good old american melodrama.
do you people ever sit down and talk rationally instead of going on long theatrical tirades about how the US government hangs over american like the sword of Damocles or how you must stay the course to fight evil doers and beware of the secular far left.
your media is a fucking circus and this solonel bullshit is no different.
calm down. really.
Submitted by darko (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:06:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"the most tenacious and evil ideologically driven enemy we've ever fought!"
-domenad
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Domenad worships Hitler!
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 02:01:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"the most tenacious and evil ideologically driven enemy we've ever fought!"
-domenad
"tell that to the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy or Iwo Jima."
-ETS
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:59:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Don't challenge the pseudo-conservatives too much, Yellow Dart... It's like feeding the bears... You just don't do it.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just see for one instant that we are ONE? Just once in this chaos of existence, I wish we could all just see how we are nothing more than the product of ur environment, following in the footsteps of our parents and THEIR parents.
These thoughts are not even MY thoughts. They belong to everyone. And each one of them is superceded by another greater thought...another revelation that frees me.
We all want freedom...and we don't care whose toes we have to trample to get it.
What am I talking about??? Maybe I'll figure it out tomorrow...
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:55:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Olbermann is the man. It sucks that I dont get MSNBC here.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:55:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:41:41 (#)
Ranking: 2
And if there's anything we can learn from the past, it's that it was a hell of a lot better than these days. You know, back in the good ol' days when your nigger would fetch you some lemonade. Thems was the days, yessir.
The world sure has gone to shit when we start treating ALL humans as humans.
I've thrown garbage onto the ground my whole life, don't feel the need for trash cans. Why on earth would I stop doing it all of a sudden?
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Why, that's a brilliant idea! Take an idea that has won us virtually every war we've ever fought in and one that has been practiced by every single nation at war since the dawn of time and pitch it out the windown when faced with the most tenacious and evil ideologically driven enemy we've ever fought! Why didn't I think of that?
How does that pathetic mass of neurons you call a brain keep you breathing while you sleep?
Submitted by The_Yellow_Dart (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:41:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:22:58 (#)
Ranking: -2
No enemy combatant in any war has ever had the right of habeus corpus. PERIOD.
_________
And if there's anything we can learn from the past, it's that it was a hell of a lot better than these days. You know, back in the good ol' days when your nigger would fetch you some lemonade. Thems was the days, yessir.
The world sure has gone to shit when we start treating ALL humans as humans.
I've thrown garbage onto the ground my whole life, don't feel the need for trash cans. Why on earth would I stop doing it all of a sudden?
(PS: If you stay by bushy's side through it all I'm sure he'll give you a wowwy-pop as a reward for suckling so predictably. You can bet your life on that.)
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:39:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Jay,
Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress.
- Mohandas Gandhi
Yea, I just looked that up.
Seriously though, there are way too mny barriers dividing people as it is. The disagreements are half of what make life interesting, wouldn't you agree? If you can't have a civil discussion with those with whom you disagree, then what good is the struggle? There has to be a different way. I want to talk without the fetters of keyboards and monitors for once. I'd like to "break on through" as Jim Morrison put it. Aren't you sick of it? The bickering and pointless character assassinations? I am.
I'll probably email you at some point, but it's completely different to try and formulate a written apology...seems almost meaningless and detached. Not the same as having an open and candid conversation, without pretense.
The offer stands. I don't think the possibility of us disagreeing is a very good excuse.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:35:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Pfft. Call him, jay. If he gets maniacal, you can talk to me instead.
(Plus he's shit drunk, which basically means he'll tell you how much he loves you and then try to get you to show him your titties)
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:27:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Brad, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the gesture, but I think I'll have to decline.
I know we actually agree on a LOT of shit, but we disagree on a LOT more, and no offense, I think the way you try and make your points borders on manical.
If ya wanna chatter though, I'm available in email, mister.jay.peg.at.gmail.com
oh, and I'm willing to just start throwing zeros instead of -2's, though.
Sign of good faith.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:22:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I sent him the same comment I sent you. You obviously approve of what he said, so you fall under the same umbrella of idiocy. No enemy combatant in any war has ever had the right of habeus corpus. PERIOD. It is not a matter for a court, a judge, or a jury. It is the sole discretion of the wartime director of the US, the President of the United States. The fact that you don't like him doesn't change that. Good for you that K.O. agrees with you - you have the agreement of an idiot. Hooray.
Submitted by electrictoothsyndrome (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:20:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hey Jay. I think I we ought to talk about some things. I feel like we've given each other a hard time of it unduly. I'd seriously like to make amends with you somehow. It would be really cool if you'd call me and we'll discuss bullshit for a minute. You can even use *67 or whatever to disguise your number if you feel you need to. I'd just like to let bygones be bygones.
270-952-2512
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:20:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I gave you his email address domenad. Address it where it counts.
Submitted by FilthyAssistant (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:19:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's both ludicrous and tragic that 99% of the media are so characterized by cowardice and corporate toadying that I feel compelled to thank a journalist for doing a journalist's job but tonight, I would buy this man a beer.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:19:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The Germans did not have habeus corpus. The Japanese did not have habeus corpus. The Koreans did not have habeus corpus. The NVA did not have habeus corpus. The arab terrorists of Al Qaeda do not have habeus corpus.
You are an idiot.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-10-19 01:16:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I've always like K.O.