Do women really want equality? (4316 hits)
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Submitted by Kaelic <scarletranger.at.yahoo.com> (View user info) at 2006-11-03 14:17:40 EST
Let me just preface this by saying that I have nothing against women. I like women (quite a lot), and as a matter of fact, and I was raised by a single mother (who finished her doctorate while raising me). I think women can be amazing.
Everyone says equality is what women want. Is this true, though? After a somewhat heated debate in which I was accused of being a horrible person, it seems obvious to me that some women want their cake, and they want to eat it, too.
Do we all remember Roe V Wade for Men? It was the case of a computer programmer that was having sexual relations with a girl. The girl assured him that it was medically impossible for her to become pregnant, but nonetheless, they used birth control as an added precaution. Can you guess what happened next?
Right. She got pregnant. And what do you suppose she did after a discussion with said young man about how he was not ready for the responsibility of fatherhood, and how he could not forsee a future together with her?
That's right, she decided to go ahead and have the baby, and then sue him for child support to the tune of $1000 a month. He counter sued that it was unfair discrimination. The woman had multiple rights; she could have an abortion, give the child up for an adoption, or have the child herself. She chose to have the child. Her choice. Where was the man's choice in all this?
Well, as I'm sure many of you will say, he chose to have sex. That means he understood the risks, and should therefor be prepared to support the child for 18 years, right?
Wrong. It takes two people to make a baby. The woman did not just wake up magically one day and discover she was pregnant. She consented to have sex as well. Would women really be so willing to get pregnant if they knew the baby would not have a paycheck coming to them for the next 18 years from the sperm donor? I think not.
As a woman, you are given a substantial amount of options when you are pregnant. There are entire services dedicated to finding dead beat dads and making them pay. As a man, you have no options. Pay or your wages will be garnished, pay or we'll put you in jail. Where was the man's voice in this? Where did he get the opportunity to say if he wanted to be a father post-coitus? Both parties know the risks of sexual intercourse, and yet one is heavily penalized far more than the other.
And consider this: While the man pays for his unwanted child for 18 years, he may meet a woman he genuinely loves. He may want to start a family with her. Now, consider that the woman who is getting his child support check can remarry and obtain yet another source of income for her child, as well as holding her own job (three sources of income). Her child is eating steak dinners and taking trips to disneyland. The man's new child, however, is getting something akin to a salary and two thirds (assuming his mother works), and is eating bologna and going to chucke cheese. That is if the father can secure a good job, since most of his money will now be lost in child support. I have personally had friends who were forced to drop out of college and get full time jobs because they were trying to pay child support to girl's they barely knew for a single night. Is this right? Is this fair?
I should note again that my mother raised me without help, obtained her doctorate, all without the help of child support. She is a strong woman, and that was her choice. You should not be given a free ticket to reproduce because the law assures you that whatever poor sucker has the misfortune of cumming inside of you, he will pay for it for the next 18 years. Some women turn it into a profitable little racket, getting pregnant with the children of pro-athletes and securing a tidy sum for themselves. I am by no means saying every single mother is like this, but there are enough. I have personally met women who considered child support money better invested in scouting for a new "daddy" for their children. You have no way of being assured where your money goes.
The solution is to allow men to waive their parental rights during a certain set period of time before the child is born. This would grant men the same freedom from responsibility that women have, and level the playing field. And why not? There would be far less unwanted pregnancies without that paycheck coming in. That would mean the children that were born would be born into happier, better homes. Homes where the parents both assumed and wanted responsibility for raising a child.
Society wants you to "man up" and "step up and take responsibility" when a man gets a woman pregnant. But if things are really to be equal, females need to "woman up" as well to ensure that things really are equal between the sexes. After all, isn't that what women really want?
User Reviews
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-12-12 08:09:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i see the queen bitch still lives
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2006-12-01 16:39:07 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I want equality, I want MEN to carry the baby and give birth 50% of the time.
Count your blessings and shut your yap Kaelic.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-08 21:29:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Like Istaros said ... I'd still get a million dollar lawsuit from the driver that hit me. Oh, and couldn't you tell? Me telling you to go kill yourself was tongue in cheek, too.
You take half the responsibility, I'll take half the responsibility, how does that sound? Why can't it just be equal, Belle?
Submitted by ArcEld (user info) at 2006-11-08 19:17:08 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I don't know what "all women want" , but I know what I want , and that's for you to fall over and break lots of stuff.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-08 13:34:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
yeah, great analogy, since whoever hit you is still to blame. dumbass.
Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-11-08 09:09:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
And as for you Kaelic - If you'd bothered to read what Id written properly, you'd have seen it was half tongue in cheek.
To then try to counter my sarcastic, "this is a fucking pointless argument" statement with "why dont you just kill yourself and solve the over population problem" wasnt really very mature, or helpful was it?
As I said - yes, I do think *some* of these men do get a raw deal.
But lets face it - you can try and call it any way you like - you cant sit and whinge and moan when you've got at least a 96% chance of stopping it happening in the first place, and you dont use it.
Its like screaming about how unfair it is that you broke your back in a car accident when someone else hit you - when in fact, you'd have been fine if YOU'd worn a seatbelt.
Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-11-08 09:00:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I think you lot should remember that for most of our existence, you've assured us women that we're not as clever, strong or generally good as you. So yes, in answer to your question - we're not responsible for making sure that you superior men know what you're doing with a condom. I as a woman only know about kittens and cooking and such things.
Ok, joking and sarcasm aside. I'll agree that you get a raw deal... BUT...
If these men have such issues with the potential responsibilities that their sperm could bring on them, then they need to strap it up before they stick it in (I love that saying). If you're going to cry about the consequences - you cant then claim it was someone elses fault when you had ample chance to prevent your unwanted outcome.
If a woman doesnt want a child but does want sex, she can take the pill, have a coil or implant fitted, or if the worst happens, take the morning after pill or have an abortion.
If a man doesnt want to have a child but wants sex - he needs to take care of his own business and slip into something a little more rubbery. You've got one choice - we for a change have quite a few (not all pleasant, but there you go).
If you dont want a woman to come back and call you Daddy - where a fucking condom.
It may also stop you getting diseases - although if you're dumb enough to do it anyway, maybe you deserve it.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-07 22:42:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think the dozens of other people who read and agree with my stance disagree, Andy. Keep on fighting the good fight, though, for women everywhere. You are a champion.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-07 17:07:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
kenny, this post is one of the most insanely idiotic things i have ever heard. at no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. everyone on this thread is now dumber for having read it. i award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
Submitted by thegizzle (user info) at 2006-11-07 14:14:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Top man, some women are such cunts
Submitted by Hypatia86 (user info) at 2006-11-07 12:39:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
100% agree. My mom is very well off, but still recv. 1000.00 a month from my dad that lives in a trailer park. He barley makes ends meet while she and her 2 new daughters take trips to europe and shit. Whats even worse is Im now living with my father, and he still pays her. Yeah its pretty fucked up.
Submitted by Dead_0hi0_Sky (user info) at 2006-11-07 12:27:58 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
someone fetch me a beer and a waterbed.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2006-11-07 12:03:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Fucking touchpad.
What I was saying is...
If a condom has a 98% chance of preventing an unwanted pregnancy, then on the rare occasion that one occurs, the man should only ave to pay 2% of the original child support.
Hardy fucking har.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2006-11-07 12:02:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
If a condom has a 98% chance of stopping unwanted pregnancies from occurring, then on the ra
Submitted by beauxjizzle (user info) at 2006-11-07 12:00:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-05 17:52:06 (#)
Ranking: -2
there is a very simple bottom line to all of this. if you don't want to pay child support, DON'T. GET. A. WOMAN. PREGNANT.
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I'd get a headache if I tried to read all these comments and follow these arguments while still trying to hide my screen from my boss but all I have to say is this: I agree... if you don't want to pay child support, don't get a woman pregnant. But I can only assume you are pro-life, which if that is your view then I understand your point and no clarification is needed.
I may be putting words in your mouth, or text in your keyboard if you will, but if you are pro-choice, and if you believe a woman can have an abortion because she does not want to be responsible for the child (and not just because of rape, or incest, or the woman's inability to safely go to full-term), AND you think that men and women should be treated as equals, then why can't a man sign away his rights as a father and be free of any financial responsibility?
If it's because a man should "be a man" and own up to his obligations (which I agree they should, but don't think anyone should be FORCED to), then in my understanding you are saying men and women are not equal... it could be interpreted as some women are unable to take care of themselves and a child without the financial support of a man, so we as society allow them an "out" via abortion, but if the woman chooses to go forward with the pregnancy then the man has no choices in the matter.
$1000 per month for a child may seem high or low depending on if you've had children or not. I have 2 children myself, and am happily married, and I can tell you that my salary didn't just magically jump up $12,000 more per year after my first son was born, in fact it hasn't even gone up that much since we've had another son, yet somehow we are doing fine... And what about in cases where the woman makes way more than the man?
I'm all for a woman's right to choose, I just think the choice should be extended to men.
So my question is simply this: Do you believe that men and women are equal? I apologize if this has already been covered but as I've mentioned, I didn't read through all 40 billion lines of text.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2006-11-07 09:20:45 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-07 08:33:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You can't argue with Andy, Istaros. He thinks he's some sort of high flying chivalrous knight, and he just ignores the arguments that he can't refute and keeps trying to hammer in his same retarded point, which is that MEN should not be having sex. WOMEN, however, are all clear to have as much sex as they want, without consequences if they choose. He's pretty retarded.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-07 08:25:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"...being asked to pay for a kid you created when you couldnt think past your penis isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things."
to make this equal and fair, you should also say 'being asked to give birth to a kid you created when you couldn't think past your sloppy cunt isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things.'
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-07 08:24:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Let me break this down for you, as well, Belle:
As a currently pregnant woman, who is highly emotional, and prone puking and crying a lot - I thought Id be best placed to answer this.
We're no where near equal yet. We simply dont get the same pay, or the same benefits as being a man - and we never will have - Not until we can shag ourselves senseless and you lot get left holding the baby.
Now we're getting told that its our own fault if we get pregnant by a numpty that doesnt know how to put a condom on!
Yes, it is unfair to you lot - but you've got a lot of unfairness to go before you catch up with us."
So we punish an entire gender based on the mistakes of past generations? Cool, with that attitude, why don't we let all the black people who had ancestors that were slaves enslave and abuse everyone that's white? Just for a few hundred years. That would sure make it "fair", right Belle?
"I suggest you start some sort of movement to take back your rights or something - chain yourselves to a few railings, and let a few of you get run over at the races... Come on, chop chop. Times a wastin'."
What do you think writing a post on a somewhat popular internet website is doing?
"Second thoughts - why dont you either:
a. keep it in your pants and stop sleeping with people you dont know very well, and dont love, or"
How succesful were you in keeping your legs closed, being that you're pregnant and all? Not very, apparently. That's hard advice to follow, huh, keep it in your pants, seeing as humans have a drive for sex, whether it be someone we love, or someone we know very well. You've never slept with someone you didn't love or didn't know very well? Again, it takes two people to make the choice.
"b. become Gay - they dont have much of a problem with the whole getting pregnant thing (or so Im led to believe)."
What a productive comment. Why don't you kill yourself? That would end the overpopulation problem the world has, also. Help us all out.
"I really thought Id be on the guys side you know - and I am sort of, I do feel horrible for all the nice guys out there who are duped into putting their cocks into evil women,"
There are both good and bad guys, good and bad women. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but a good law protects everyone.
"who just want to have babies and charge them for it... but there are a lot of injustices in this world, and being asked to pay for a kid you created when you couldnt think past your penis isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things."
But once again, it's OK to create a kid if you're thinking with your ovaries, but that damn man is going to pay for his mistake! Sure, you spread your legs, sure, you could have made sure the condom was on, you'd taken birth control. Sure, you were horny too, you weren't asleep or incapcitated when he was humping you, but damn him for just thinking with his penis!
You see how stupid that sounds? Give me a fucking break, please. Where does any of what you said make sense?
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-07 08:22:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 22:16:08 (#)
Ranking: 0
...why did the man irresponsibly participate in the risky business of sex without intending to produce a child?"
to your question a question; why is it that, were a woman to do the same, she is fully allowed to remove herself from the risk of said business -even in the event such a risk becomes a reality- while a man is not? this isn't penis-vagina, this is cultural. if it were merely a matter of genetics, neither person would have a choice.
Submitted by garudave (user info) at 2006-11-07 08:20:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-11-07 06:53:43 (#)
Ranking: 2
As a currently pregnant woman, who is highly emotional, and prone puking and crying a lot - I thought Id be best placed to answer this.
We're no where near equal yet. We simply dont get the same pay, or the same benefits as being a man - and we never will have - Not until we can shag ourselves senseless and you lot get left holding the baby.
Now we're getting told that its our own fault if we get pregnant by a numpty that doesnt know how to put a condom on!
Yes, it is unfair to you lot - but you've got a lot of unfairness to go before you catch up with us.
I suggest you start some sort of movement to take back your rights or something - chain yourselves to a few railings, and let a few of you get run over at the races... Come on, chop chop. Times a wastin'.
Second thoughts - why dont you either:
a. keep it in your pants and stop sleeping with people you dont know very well, and dont love, or
b. become Gay - they dont have much of a problem with the whole getting pregnant thing (or so Im led to believe).
I really thought Id be on the guys side you know - and I am sort of, I do feel horrible for all the nice guys out there who are duped into putting their cocks into evil women, who just want to have babies and charge them for it... but there are a lot of injustices in this world, and being asked to pay for a kid you created when you couldnt think past your penis isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things.
--------------------------------
Since you're the bearer of said child, and the one who's going through most of the pain, shouldn't you be the one to make sure the condom is fixed and in its position? Or in the case of a lack of condom, that you shouldn't have sex?
I mean, yeah, the man is financially responsible (in part), but you're the one who is responsible for that child's life should things go awry. So, if you get pregnant by some douche who didn't wear a condom, you're both idiots.
I think the thing that could end this argument is that both people are responsible for the actions that take place, and people need to realize that. Dudes need to stop getting scammed into dipping their dick without wrapping it, for sure, because that's the root of these stories. People are generally capable of doing the evils that their body/mind allows them to do. In the case of women, they can become leeches by getting fucked and having a kid, sucking all the cash right out of the "poor" man. However, that doesn't make all women evil, it just gives them an advantage should they find themselves in a situation where they need cash. Overall, though, Kaelic's point takes this into account, and he never said women are all evil, or even gave a general phrase about the situation, he just suggested that in certain parts of our judicial system, women are granted more rights. And that statement is correct.
True equality is hard to come by because it's hard to measure. Women give up the right to the benefits men get from certain high-paying jobs, whereas men cannot make decisions about the life of the child his lover bears. Are these equal rights?
It's up to you.
Submitted by Bellebrown (user info) at 2006-11-07 06:53:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
As a currently pregnant woman, who is highly emotional, and prone puking and crying a lot - I thought Id be best placed to answer this.
We're no where near equal yet. We simply dont get the same pay, or the same benefits as being a man - and we never will have - Not until we can shag ourselves senseless and you lot get left holding the baby.
Now we're getting told that its our own fault if we get pregnant by a numpty that doesnt know how to put a condom on!
Yes, it is unfair to you lot - but you've got a lot of unfairness to go before you catch up with us.
I suggest you start some sort of movement to take back your rights or something - chain yourselves to a few railings, and let a few of you get run over at the races... Come on, chop chop. Times a wastin'.
Second thoughts - why dont you either:
a. keep it in your pants and stop sleeping with people you dont know very well, and dont love, or
b. become Gay - they dont have much of a problem with the whole getting pregnant thing (or so Im led to believe).
I really thought Id be on the guys side you know - and I am sort of, I do feel horrible for all the nice guys out there who are duped into putting their cocks into evil women, who just want to have babies and charge them for it... but there are a lot of injustices in this world, and being asked to pay for a kid you created when you couldnt think past your penis isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things.
Submitted by Juden (user info) at 2006-11-07 01:09:08 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Let me just preface
my daughter is taller than you
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 22:16:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
here's some great Kenny quotes that no one has spoke up on in disagreement.
"Why should the man have to pay because she decided she wanted to have a child, raise it, devote all the time and personal sacrifice a good mother would, and all these other things? That is again asking for chivalry, and in regarding equality, there is no room for chivalrous, self sacrificing behavior."
i don't know; why did the man irresponsibly participate in the risky business of sex without intending to produce a child? and don't give me that business about women lying about being on the pill. BigMike has already addressed that issue quite rationally.
on law requiring a man to pay child support:
"It places all the responsibility on the man's shoulders, and none on the woman's. It takes two people to have sex, right? Two people decided to go ahead with it, right?"
yeah, right, because the woman isn't taking on any responsibility by *raising* the child and also using her own income to do so in addition to the supplementation of child support paid by the man.
"Circe pretty much just took a very ugly, sarcastic tone and then played the victim role about what a hard working single mother she is and how dare I, how dare I, those bastards should give her every last dime for shooting off in her, damn them, etc."
i wonder if Circe is just upset that a man had sex with her, but wasn't man enough to stick and around and raise the child. is that equality for the woman? not hardly.
"Please, just settle down. You don't need to fire any shots at me."
i just threw that one in because it's funny.
you people amaze me.
Submitted by Fungah (user info) at 2006-11-06 22:00:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 21:37:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
yes, i was totally serious when i said "some things are the way they are". come on. i'm just trying to rile Kenny up because he throws tantrums like a child and whines like he's on The View. he gets really butt-hurt.
i completely understand that this is an argument about equality, but i was arguing that i don't consider a woman having more choices to be a grave injustice because Kenny brought it up. biological laws dictate that women bear the greatest physical burden of giving birth to a child. our culture still tends to place the greatest personal burden of raising children on the woman as well. there will never be real equality. do you want to know why? because boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. that's a fact jack, and that IS "just the way it is". so until we make the movie "Junior" a reality, DEAL WITH IT.
hey, what do you guys think about gay and lesbian child support issues?
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-06 20:39:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
'things are the way they are'? what the fuck is this bullshit? regardless of anything else you may or may not have said, hidden, that was just plain fuckin retarded. we're talking about laws. i know you're a generally intelligent person, so i'm not going to insult that by asking if you really think laws are unmalleable. honestly, though. what the fuck. this is not a goddamn force of nature we're talking about, it's a social construct.
men weren't always forced to support their children. in many places, they still aren't. and while it is largely a good thing that they now are in our society, that's a far cry from making it 'the way things are.' that kind of fatalistic idiocy is exactly the kind of attitude that would have kept child support from ever being enforced. 'i had three kids with my husband then he left me' 'sorry lady, that's just the way things roll sometimes. tough luck.' pull your head out of your ass already, for chrissakes.
you really think it's a good system we have? it works, yeah. but only by zealotry; there's a *lot* of individuals who bear an unnecessary brunt, good ones, and all due to those who DO deserve the harsh treatment. you're advocating guilt by association, buddy. sins of the fuckin fathers.
and every time you argue back, even though your arguments are generally sound and cloying in their appeal, you nevertheless show that you've missed the entire point of kaelic's post. he's not talking about good behavior. he's talking about what constitutes *equality.* equality has nothing to do with what you're talking about; 'sucking it up' because it's your responsibility is just about the opposite of equality in this situation.
once again. boy impregnates girl. girl can abort, give up for adoption, or rear the fetus. and it's entirely up to her.
that's fine. no problem with that. the problem is that whatever girl chooses, is also by default what boy chooses. you think that sounds equal, do you? maybe he doesn't want to have a kid. maybe he ain't ready. so what does he get to do about that -jack shit. yeah, in that situation, he should face and live up to his newfound responsibilities. but this isn't about what should or shouldn't be done, although you seem to think it is. you're hung up on an argument nobody is having. this is about, what someone is *forced* to do. a woman is not forced to raise a child just because she got knocked up. a guy, if she decides to carry to term, is. this is not equality. and THAT is the point of the post.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 19:20:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
there are some things in the world that are the way they are and there ain't much you can do to change that, bud.
if you absolutely can't stand that a woman "has more choices", then move to a muslim country, because you sure are whining a lot about this. that's about the only advice i can give you.
and my salary hardly qualifies me as rich. i was just making the point that your personal attacks on me are not only completely immature, but also way off base. they also have nothing to do with the argument, but that's what you always stoop to when you can't win with reason. grow up, Kenny.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-06 18:52:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
There's no arguing with you, Shlong --- I mean Andy. You're right, dude, you're right. You are some millionaire, and I am but a lowly community college going to firefighter/retail employee. You win, brother, invite me to a playboy mansion party the next time Hef sends you an invitation, I know he's always bothering you. It's amazing you find the time, what with all the internet arguing you manage to do.
There clearly is no arguing, because you ignore every logical point in favor of your illogical "tough luck" argument. You should be a fucking woman, dude, as much as you are prepared to take their side in something that is clearly unequal. I'm not going to try to convince you anymore, because you clearly think that a man should not have sex unless he is prepared to deal with a pregnant woman, although a woman can have sex and decide if she wants to be pregnant or not, her choice. If you can't see the inequality there, I feel bad for you.
Submitted by Ejryuu (user info) at 2006-11-06 17:52:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
www.eatbabies.com
This would be an awesome argument...errrm debate with someone in person. I'll take the devil's advocate's side, whichever that may be with the particular person. Well-written, sir.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 16:14:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Brdn_Nkd- i can only guess that the 17% was to evenly split your combined income, since you have 50/50 custody. is that why they make you pay the 17%?
here's where i can see it get unfair- if she starts making more money than you and she's not forced to pay YOU a percentage. if she continues to make less than you and you have to keep paying her, i just call that "tough luck". it sucks, i know, and i feel for you. i've known guys that had to live in near poverty to pay alimony. that one sucks even more because while child support is a simple mathematical calculation using guidelines published by your state, alimony is very much in the discretion of the judge.
Submitted by Brdn_Nkd (user info) at 2006-11-06 15:42:44 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I know I'm late in this converstation but I'd throw a new wrinkle in there.
I have 50/50 custody and placement of my son. I.E. he lives with me half of the time and her the other half. I pay for many of his extras and many of his needs since she seems to just let it ride, probably because she knows that if he needs jeans. shoes, whatever I'll take care of it to make sure he has what he needs.
sounds like I'm doing my part right? I would think so.
I have to pay her child support. %17 of my monthly salary.
i think that's as wrong as two boys fucking. I do not recieve lubricant for this ass pounding I have to endure either.
why if we're "sharing" the "burden" of raising my son do I have to contribute more financially?
ok, ok... there is a disparity of income but let's wrinkle that shit right up to.
I put her through school. I payed for everything while she went and cared for our son the whole time. for the last six months of her 1 year education I knew that she was divorcing me and that I would not be reaping the benefits that said education were supposed to bring to our family, ie her getting paid more.
does any of that matter? not one iota. there's a disparity in income because instead of practicing her trade where she has the potential to make more than me she is working for a retail store. fuck that. it's not my fault she chooses not to practice in her field, and it is a choice.
if the roles were reversed do you honestly believe I could pull the same shit? I highly doubt it. the laws are antiquated and in favor of the woman in many aspects.
Submitted by jade_digitalmedia (user info) at 2006-11-06 15:04:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
fireman calendar.
Submitted by Newty (user info) at 2006-11-06 13:25:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2006-11-06 13:24:24 (#)
Ranking: 0
Seems like the problem here was you actually "debated" with a woman.
The correct thing to do is to nod your head in agreement and not give a shit what she thinks.
--------
go shag a tree
Submitted by TheSpook (user info) at 2006-11-06 13:24:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Seems like the problem here was you actually "debated" with a woman.
The correct thing to do is to nod your head in agreement and not give a shit what she thinks.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 13:16:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Just like someone fartherm down said, which you seem to be ignoring ... what if you WANTED the child, but for some reason, your four month pregnant girlfriend decided to break up with you, and get an abortion to spite you. What rights would you have in the matter? Let me tell you, none. You can't do shit."
i completely agree with that point. i think men should have a say in that regard. that's only logical and humane. it's everything YOU said that i disagreed with. all you did was whine in the message body without really making any valid points. this is what you sounded like-
teenager: "that sucks!"
adult: "why does it suck?"
teenager: "it just... does!"
saying things like "it takes two people to have sex" does not validate any of your arguments.
"That's the other side of the argument you conveniently ignored because it doesn't fit well with making everyone think you're a hero by "manning up if you ever knocked up a drunken slut", which shouldn't be a big deal for you because your life isn't going anywhere, anyhow."
yeah, MY life is going nowhere. what are you, a vitamin store clerk going to community college? good job, kenny. aim high, that's what i always say. i made almost a quarter mil last year and i'm about to put another 40 grand in the bank when that check comes next week. my career is skyrocketing. it's getting even better because the fortune 100 company i work for just had another 3 billion dollar quarter (that's just my division), so here comes yet another raise. i'm replying to this from Princeton, where i often travel to for my job and i must say i feel priveledged and humbled to get to work with some spectacular scientists. as you may have heard, Einstein worked here. i'm very excited about the things i get to do and the amazing technology breakthroughs i have witnessed being created here. this was my dream career and i made it happen after a lot of hard work.
as for the comment about me not being able to get laid... well, that's just laughable. i'm sure you'll understand if i don't feel the need to defend that.
are you happy now? i played your little game of personal attacks. now that we've got that out of our system, i'll be happy to reply to any serious arguments you have, barring any more personal attacks on me. if you want to keep being childish you'll get ignored from now on because i think i've made my argument very clearly and concisely already.
Submitted by mr-bee (user info) at 2006-11-06 09:04:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
No Comment
Submitted by JMG114 (user info) at 2006-11-06 08:31:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Definitely a good read.
The problem I have is when a gal expects independence and then turns around and asks you why you don't pay for more stuff for her. It must be nice to pick and choose what "independence" means to her, but it strikes me as inconsiderate and presumptuous when she tries to play both sides of the issue to her advantage.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-06 08:29:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You know what, Andy? You're right. That's why I didn't say, "Do away with the system and let them bitches fend for themselves!" like you're trying to paint me, Launcelot. I said the system needs to be reformed, and it needs to give men more options regarding pregnancy. Just like someone fartherm down said, which you seem to be ignoring ... what if you WANTED the child, but for some reason, your four month pregnant girlfriend decided to break up with you, and get an abortion to spite you. What rights would you have in the matter? Let me tell you, none. You can't do shit.
That's the other side of the argument you conveniently ignored because it doesn't fit well with making everyone think you're a hero by "manning up if you ever knocked up a drunken slut", which shouldn't be a big deal for you because your life isn't going anywhere, anyhow.
I'm pretty sure not all men are in the same boat as you, I.E., have no sex whatsoever, OR pay for the sex you do have for the next 18 years, and put most of your other life plans on hold because all your money now goes to someone else. You've also decided to ignore all the other arguments put forth, like the fact any subsequent kids the father has with a woman he might actually love will be impoverished compared to his first child, and there really is no reason to differentiate between the two children, first or second.
Yeah, you've pretty much ignored all the valid points and the dozens of thoughtful replies from other people, so I'm going to choose to ignore the rest of your "if you're stupid enough to get a woman pregnant, you should have to pay" Again, that's not an argument. "IF A WOMAN IS STUPID ENOUGH TO GET PREGNANT, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY" makes the exact same amount of sense. You need to take a logic class or something. Toodles.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-06 08:12:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"Submitted by i_can_get_you_a_toe (user info) at 2006-11-05 22:52:30 (#)
Ranking: 0
How many people here were raised by single mothers? I'm sure there is quite a few, myself included and why? because it is too easy for the man to walk away, and they do - every real life situation I know the guy has decided that it's too hard and has left - a woman cannot do that - she cant just unstrap her 6 month belly and pack it all in, of course the courts are biased towards women - because they get abandoned all the time.
If a woman can sacrifice her body then a man can sacrifice some of his earnings to help take care of the life he helped to create."
deadbeat babydaddy -check.
self-pitying weep story -check.
men involved in life wearing jewelry -check.
ladies and gentlemen, i believe we have found ourselves a nigger.
Submitted by jeveuxgagner (user info) at 2006-11-06 04:11:11 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
dude, there is nothing to stop a man not fucking a whore-bitch. If he has a brain he will know she is a lowie; thus, he'll know the risks of "cumming in her" as you crudely describe it.
Submitted by Lisa (user info) at 2006-11-06 02:02:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
How can you two do this in front of me? Damn.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 01:18:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by chicagogirl (user info) at 2006-11-05 23:22:40 (#)
Ranking: 0
i belong in the kitchen baking pies and giving blow jobs.
==============================================================
that's right, pussycat. i'm going to make a romance explosion on your stomach later and you're going to like it.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-06 01:08:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-11-05 18:47:06 (#)
Ranking: 2
Hidden, maybe you missed my point, cocheese.
When a woman is getting a grand from the state AND 750 from the fathers, and the KIDS eat shit and dress like bums while SHE has perfect hair and nails and orders out constantly, how is that FOR THE FUCKING KID?
And if you think I'm talking out of my ass, I LIVED in Section 8 housing when my Mom was raising me and my brother and my sister, and I *SAW* bitches get pregnant JUST TO COLLECT CHILD SUPPORT AND WELFARE. I saw bitches get married for 2 years and then divorce, the entire time fucking whoever she wanted JUST TO GET ALIMONY.
And I'm not saying that ALL women spend it on themselves, I'm saying SOME DO.
And sorry man, but there ARE women in the world who will fucking lie and shit saying "Oh yeah, I'm on the pill" "Oh, I had my tubes tied after my quadrillionth kid" so they can get pregnant again.
Plain and simple, bitches (and please notice my use of the term. Bitches, not women, because again, this isn't ABOUT all women) should be sterilized, because to them, kids aren't kids, they're money-trains.
==============================================
no, i didn't miss your point at all. you made it perfectly clear. the problem is that it's not an argument against making a man pay child support. it could, however, be an entirely different argument for accountability of said child support. abuse of the system is NOT an argument. you wouldn't do away with vehicular transportation because SOME people speed, which is against the law as you know. i realize that is a rather over the top analogy, but it gets the point across hopefully.
and a woman lying about being on the pill doesn't mean shit to me, either. if you're a big enough sucker to fall for it, you've got no one to blame but yourself. everyone knows there is risk involved with having sex. ESPECIALLY with some slut you met in a bar that went home with you drunk after talking to you for a whole hour. if you're too irresponsible to accept that, i just don't know what else to say to you. it would be nice to just go around doing whatever you wanted without consequence, wouldn't it? it's too bad the world doesn't work that way.
don't get me wrong, i've done my fair share of drunk sluts and if i ever would have gotten one of them pregnant i'd man up and pay.
i honestly can't believe this is even an argument. i'd expect such an ignorant view from teenagers, but some of you are adults. ridiculous...
Submitted by lordofthepost (user info) at 2006-11-06 00:00:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
This post is absolutely true, and there should be other chapters. See attached
http://myvag.net/pee/standing/
Submitted by chicagogirl (user info) at 2006-11-05 23:22:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i belong in the kitchen baking pies and giving blow jobs.
Submitted by i_can_get_you_a_toe (user info) at 2006-11-05 22:52:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
How many people here were raised by single mothers? I'm sure there is quite a few, myself included and why? because it is too easy for the man to walk away, and they do - every real life situation I know the guy has decided that it's too hard and has left - a woman cannot do that - she cant just unstrap her 6 month belly and pack it all in, of course the courts are biased towards women - because they get abandoned all the time.
If a woman can sacrifice her body then a man can sacrifice some of his earnings to help take care of the life he helped to create.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-11-05 20:24:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-11-05 20:14:51 (#)
Ranking: 2
R. Berg
A. Hitler
See the connection?
---
um... no.
I mean wow. Compared to Hitler!
That is a pretty bold statement. Please explain - if you can.
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2006-11-05 20:14:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
R. Berg
A. Hitler
See the connection?
Submitted by foster (user info) at 2006-11-05 20:02:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-11-05 18:47:06 (#)
Ranking: 2
Plain and simple, bitches should be sterilized, because to them, kids aren't kids, they're money-trains.
-----
Someone needs a hug.
... from his mother.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-05 19:28:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Way to go, Ashlee. At least you realized how fucked up and unjust the system is.
Andy, you win, dude. I hope you never have a one night stand and have an accident that you are forced to pay for for the next 18 years.
But really I do, because I would find that funny as shit. Good night.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-11-05 19:18:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-05 18:37:51 (#)
Ranking: 2
hidden, you're acting like a complete tool. you're usually a lot smarter than this.
---
I disagree...
I think he has made some valid points.
People need to be held accountable for their actions. Why is that even open for debate?
Jesus Christ - we are all so touchy feely PC passive brain-dead that we let stupid people get away with stupid things all the fucking time.
I have a plan:
If an individual is found manipulating the system and the 'state' can prove willful & harmful negligence, excessive abuse, or abandonment - you should be charged with being a degenerate human being and your children should be taken away and housed in a rehabilitation school where they will be fed, and educated. (Think 'orphanage' - but far more advanced and proactive.)
If found guilty of degeneracy that individual will then be sterilized and sentenced to work in a recycling plant sifting through society's refuse.
Much like a prison that individual will no longer be able to leave the compound during the week. After one year they would then be eligible to leave on weekends to visit their children.
Drug tests will be mandatory, any violation of the rules will result in that privilege being taken away.
Half of the income that individual will earn from that job would help pay for the room and board of their unfortunate children until they are 18.
(The money made from recycling the vast amount of unnecessary waste humanity dumps into the garbage will fund the rest of the program which will include counseling and various 'life coaches'.)
The other half is banked for them to use on their weekend visits and also for their release.
Once all of the children have reached the age of 18 that individual will then be discharged and free to return to their so-called life. (or can remain at the program - but will then get full payment, be eligible for promotions and perhaps become a counselor.
BOOM.
2 birds with one stone - round up all the degenerate fucking mothers and fathers out there - and take their filthy soon to be degenerate kids and rehabilitate the greasy little fuckers before they turn into their parents AND help save the environment.
Come to think of it, I think all criminals should have to work in massive recycling plants. Hmmm...
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-11-05 18:47:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Hidden, maybe you missed my point, cocheese.
When a woman is getting a grand from the state AND 750 from the fathers, and the KIDS eat shit and dress like bums while SHE has perfect hair and nails and orders out constantly, how is that FOR THE FUCKING KID?
And if you think I'm talking out of my ass, I LIVED in Section 8 housing when my Mom was raising me and my brother and my sister, and I *SAW* bitches get pregnant JUST TO COLLECT CHILD SUPPORT AND WELFARE. I saw bitches get married for 2 years and then divorce, the entire time fucking whoever she wanted JUST TO GET ALIMONY.
And I'm not saying that ALL women spend it on themselves, I'm saying SOME DO.
And sorry man, but there ARE women in the world who will fucking lie and shit saying "Oh yeah, I'm on the pill" "Oh, I had my tubes tied after my quadrillionth kid" so they can get pregnant again.
Plain and simple, bitches (and please notice my use of the term. Bitches, not women, because again, this isn't ABOUT all women) should be sterilized, because to them, kids aren't kids, they're money-trains.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-05 18:37:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
hidden, you're acting like a complete tool. you're usually a lot smarter than this.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-05 17:52:06 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
no, none of the points you made were articulate and well thought-out. there is a very simple bottom line to all of this. if you don't want to pay child support, DON'T. GET. A. WOMAN. PREGNANT. there's nothing unfair about that. there's no unjust inequalities about keeping your dick in your pants. you people love to bitch about the people who have unwanted babies, but want to defend people who "just made a mistake". astounding...
you people and your white trash stories about how you "can relate" make me sick with your ignorance.
I'M KENNY!
WHINE
WHINE
WHINE
LIFE IS SO UNFAIR. EVERYTHING SHOULD WORK THE WAY I WANT IT TO.
there, i stooped to your level. i thought you'd appreciate that. now if you'll excuse me, i have a flight to catch.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2006-11-05 17:49:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The law was passed to protect children.
Submitted by Hookhand (user info) at 2006-11-05 17:43:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I love talking about this issue. Another caveat is, if the man who gets a woman pregnant wants her to have the baby and she wants to abort, guess what? She aborts. Men have literally 0 say in the matter. It's important to have a birth control pill for men.
I am dead serious about this. It would be an added layer of protection, it would prevent men from paying child support to women who said they couldn't get pregnant or swore that they were on the pill, etc. It will help men who are paying for a child they didn't want from doing so, and it will stop unwanted children from being born.
The problem is, the logistics of a male birth control pill are pretty hard to map out. They have a few options, none of them are any good.
Thanks for posting this.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2006-11-05 16:08:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Well, before, I didn't have much of an opinion on this, but my mind has once again changed overnight. (at least this time I have a reason)
My boyfriend has a 3 year old daughter. Her mother left him for another guy, it was a pretty amicable split, the four of us even hung out as friends pretty regularly for awhile. The custody agreement (made by them, nobody's been to court about it) was total split, we took her one week and her mom and stepdad took her the next. It worked well for the first few months. Then the mother decided to go walk the appalacian trail (I'm serious) and left the baby with us for the three month duration... Oh, wait... No, my bad, she left the kid at her mom's house, 4 hours away from where we all lived. Though she cut her trip short, our time with the baby was suddenly limeted to "only when Toni feels like it, and only if she's there too." This whole time, my boyfriend had not been paying child support, which seemd fair because we were in fact supporting the kid at least 50% of the time, nevermind the fact that because of ME the kid has a whole brand new wardrobe and toys that came from Toys R US instead of Goodwill. When Toni got back way early from the crazy hippie walk, she didn't ask for child support because her boyfriend was picking up the tab (she hasn't had a job since she moved into the party house) with all the money he made selling drugs to high school kids (once again, serious.), and we were still buying stuff for the baby (clothes, toys, etc.) Circumstances forced us to move, and we chose NY, where my man grew up. We asked for Toni to let the baby come up and stay with us for awhile.
When we left Florida, due to their own circumstances, Toni and her boyfriend were homeless. We asked for some time with the baby partly because we missed her and partly because we had a two bedroom apartment and figured that was better for a toddler than couch tour. Finally Toni agreed to let us see the baby. But she stayed too. She basically moved into our home for a month, causing untold discord and nearly ruining my relationship completely. When she finally left, instead of leaving the baby with us as she had agreed mere days before, she decided she "wasn't comfortable" being that far from the kid and took her with.
Now her boyfriend is in jail. So she's decided that if we don't pay his bail money, she's going to hit chris up for child support, not let us claim EIC, and STILL not let us see the baby. Oh and wait for it, wait for it... She's due next month. Oh yeah you heard me. Chick is pregnant AGAIN, by the other guy. So basically she's going to be recieving money from the goverment for BOTH kids, living in a house her boyfriend's dad is paying for (long story) AND receiving child support from my boyfriend for the daughter she doesn't allow him to see at all. Regardless of how the money is spent, I for one think that's pretty damn fucked up.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-05 16:00:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
So you did read past the point you said, Hidden. Let me just say that you are a liar, liar, with pants ablaze with fire. And all of my points were pretty well thought out and articulated, you're just choosing to ignore them and concentrate on my personal attacks, which you should know by now aren't particularly serious.
Also, Peckerhead, thanks for the positive defense, I tried to make this as lucid and clear as possible that I'm not a misogyonist, and that I just feel all things considered, it should be equal if equality is what we're shooting for.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2006-11-05 15:52:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Actually, peckerhead, I did not. I specifically put the words "sometimes" and "can be" in there. I made sure not to make that mistake.
Submitted by peckerhead (user info) at 2006-11-05 15:40:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
oops; I accidentally posted a URL (http://www.ubersite.com/m/74779) at the bottom of my last comment; The purpose was to show how I, personally have championed for womens rights -- as I bet Kaelic has. Hell, go ahead and look for my comments in that post if you must.
phone's ringing... gotta go. Great post, Kaelic.
Submitted by peckerhead (user info) at 2006-11-05 15:35:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2006-11-04 09:46:26 (#)
Ranking: 1
The answer is "yes." Yes, we want equality, you fool.
The problem arises when little bitchy twats want equality and then some. Just like you said, then want their cake, etc.
HOWEVER, you shouldn't generalize, as you are clearly doing. You go on about how you're not trying to be an asshole and you really are sympathetic because your mom blah, blah, blah.... BUT, the fact of the matter is that you're still generalizing. And your mom being a courageous, independant woman means ONE thing. You respect YOUR MOM. Don't use this to distract us from the fact that you don't quite "respect" women as a gender. You may love them, but respect doesn't seem to be there.
Maybe men shouldn't be such sluts. Ever think of that? I think sometimes the man takes advantage of womens' loving, nurturing demeanor thinks, "Oh boy, I'm going home with this chick for a night- score!" This is a character flaw. The girl, vulnerably affected by his charm often thinks, "Such a nice guy, I'll show him I like him by letting him do me tonight." This is also a character flaw. That's how things like this happen.
Men can be slutty just like women. They can be whiney bitches like women. Just like women can be players and pimps. The point is, all people should be responsible for his/her own bullshit. We want equality. Those women who fall in the stampede of that reality, get what they deserve. If women want equal treatment, they should know survival of the fittest applies.
I know the law doesn't support this, which makes life difficult for men. But, you all should know by now that people are selfish. Think of that when you're sluttily charming a woman's pants off.
==============================================================================
Siren, this was a good review until the very last sentence. You blast Kaelic for generalizing... and then go ahead and do the exact same thing!
In the early part of the post, Kaelic writes: "Do we all remember Roe V Wade for Men? It was the case of a computer programmer that was having sexual relations with a girl. The girl assured him that it was medically impossible for her to become pregnant, but nonetheless, they used birth control as an added precaution."
THE GIRL ASSURED HIM THAT IT WAS MEDICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR HER TO BECOME PREGNANT ...
at which point, the man, taking the woman at HER WORD, made the decision that it was okay to have sex with her. He was hardly "sluttily charming" her pants off now was he.
Kaelic has bent over backwards to acknowledge that in many areas, womens rights are abused and women are getting a raw deal. I agree with this. Hell, I will add another example while I'm at it: the glass ceiling where women doing the exact same job as a man get paid less... or are blocked from promotion past a certain level; This is pathetically unfair.
I have read the post over twice now, searching for ulterior motive, sophistry, disrespect for women in general and one-upmanship. I cannot find any of those things. What I have found is an extremely well thought out post; possibly the most honest and lucid post I have read here at Ubersite. In my view, Kaelic has told it pretty much the way it is.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/74779
Submitted by garudave (user info) at 2006-11-05 15:06:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Here's a good point to all of you who are calling Kaelic a cunt and a dick and all that jazz.
A man is not equal in his right to choose whether or not the child comes into the world. A man cannot have an abortion, a man cannot force the child into adoption. It's all the woman's decision, so to give a woman a child and then break from her is allowing her to choose your fate. Some men will actually try to raise the child with the woman, but it's sometimes impossible to deal with the mounds and mounds of bullshit that can be slung one's way in this scenario. You're screwed either way, I guess.
That wasn't my point, though. My point is exactly this:
Eat your babies. They taste good.
Submitted by Bizdorph (user info) at 2006-11-05 13:59:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by trivia91 (user info) at 2006-11-05 13:02:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Makes sense, i guess.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-05 11:43:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the lisa thing didn't "cross the line". it was just incorrect. i never took a stab at her. i have no reason too. it's beyond me why she thought that it was meant for her. my first comment was sarcasm directed towards you.
and the line about people cheating on their taxes was directed towards the person that made absolutely no argument against child support. you just didn't get the meaning or intent of it. if you're going to make an argument against something, try to have a point and try to make sure it's relevant.
and please don't tell me that women who abuse the system is a strong argument against making a man pay child support. it's not. not even close.
and cut the alcohol remarks. it's childish. i drink a couple times a week and it's not even that much when i do. i really went on a bender friday night. i had 6 beers!
when you have a well thought out argument, i'll come back and read it. if you're going to continue to attack my personal life like we're in high school, instead of attempting to interact with me like an adult, then we're done here.
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-05 10:34:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
That is sad because I really broke it down for you. I was looking forward to you sobbing into a cum stained kleenex and admitting how worthless your argument was. I guess that whole Lisa thing crossed the line. Sorry dude, but you're still wrong.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-05 07:33:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-05 02:57:03 (#)
Ranking: 0
Let's do this old school style and let me break this shit down for your small, simple, alcohol soaked mind to comprehend a little more:
"and some people cheat on their taxes; what's your point?"
This is completely irrelevent and has no basis in this argument. Hey, person A does does X wrong, so therefor it's OK for person B to do Y wrong too, isn't that obvious?! Uh, no.
"jesus, i can't hold my tongue any longer. this was the dumbest thing i've ever read."
So you what? Had to make what you felt was a clever dig at Lisa first, but really this was just stewing inside of you? Give me a break.
=============================================================
i literally stopped reading what you wrote at this point. i will "give you a break". grow up, kenny.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-05 06:12:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
SLAM
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-05 02:57:03 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Let's do this old school style and let me break this shit down for your small, simple, alcohol soaked mind to comprehend a little more:
"and some people cheat on their taxes; what's your point?"
This is completely irrelevent and has no basis in this argument. Hey, person A does does X wrong, so therefor it's OK for person B to do Y wrong too, isn't that obvious?! Uh, no.
"jesus, i can't hold my tongue any longer. this was the dumbest thing i've ever read."
So you what? Had to make what you felt was a clever dig at Lisa first, but really this was just stewing inside of you? Give me a break.
"child support is a supplement to the mother's income. it's for the child. that's why it's called "child support". if you don't want to pay it, don't get a woman pregnant. it really is that simple. what do you think, you're going to give a woman $1,000 a month and she's buying a new car and jewelry with it?"
Again, this is another emotionly driven piece of drivel that doesn't have any basis in logic. The exact same statement, "If a woman doesn't want to have to pay for it, she shouldn't get pregnant" makes the exact same amount of sense. And yeah, yeah, SOME WOMEN WILL BE TAKING THAT $1,000 A MONTH AND BUYING JEWELRY AND THEIR CAR PAYMENT. But Andy, Andy, I needs it so I can drives myself to work so I can ears a paycheck to buy mah baby mac and cheeze!!!!1! Get your shit out of here.
"what a simple mind you have."
I bet this makes you feel really smart to say, like you're actually more intelligent than anyone. Where is your college degree in social and ethical responsibility? What's that, uncle sam didn't give you one? I didn't think so.
"what is so unequal about giving a woman money for a child you helped produce? oh, i see. you want to wash your hands of the responsibility portion. i get it now. you are a coward."
And this right here makes you feel morally superior, despite the fact I already said in my own personally situation that I would probably pay child support, or fight for custody. Wow, what a man's man you are Andy, fighting for the rights of the opressed single moms everwhere. Hooray, Andy, hooray.
"maybe i'm missing something here."
Yeah, good call, you are. It's called a logical argument and a sack full of nuts.
"i must be. you can't possibly believe that making a man pay child support is an inequality. that's just assanine. just because some mothers have the ability to raise a child on their own after carrying it their womb for 9 months, doesn't mean we should relieve all men of their resonsibilities when impregnating a woman."
Use of the word assanine doesn't lend any credibility to this statement. You were very astute however in the fact that you must be missing something, because relieving all men everywhere of their responsibility wasn't, in fact, what I said at all. Read it again, dipshit.
"your logic is so flawed i'm astounded. actually, there's absolutely no logic involved at any point of your immature rant. i believe the word i was looking for was IGNORANCE."
Immature rant? At what point did this rant break down into immaturity because you disagree with it? You must be on a serious bender crying in your beer about how Lisa broke up with you to really think this was ignorant, or immature, and the only thing you should be astounded by is what a dumbass your response painted you as.
"what's even more pathetic is how righteous i'll bet you feel after all the immature teenagers and lonely, loser adults who would do anything for someone to acknowledge their existence (if even on the Internet) gave you some +2 fellatio."
Because we know that only immature teenagers and lonely, loser adults use the internet. After all, look at you, you're a shining star among the lonely, loser adults section of Ubersite.
"i can't believe how smart everyone thinks they are on this stupid fucking website."
Including you, superstar, including you. In closing, learn to read, shut the fuck up, and get bent. Stick to posting pictures of yourself and non-sensical one word non-sequiturs and don't try to debate anyone on something you are clearly unequipped to do.
Submitted by hidden101 (user info) at 2006-11-05 02:33:06 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-11-04 13:00:44 (#)
Ranking: 2
Not for the woman. For the child."
-----
No offense, Circe. But you need to check out some Inner-City America, where Loquisha has 6 kids, is getting $1100 a month from the government PLUS a total of $750 from her three baby-daddies, and she still lives in rent-controlled projects, has a 60-inch DLP TV, has immaculate nails, hair and clothes, goes out with her girls every Friday night, and still sends her 3 school age kids to school in clothes that are maybe two steps up from rags and feeds them generic Mac & Cheese 3 nights a week for dinner while she orders pizza 4 days a week for her own lunch at home.
In the US, sadly, child support isn't ALWAYS for the child.
=============================================================
and some people cheat on their taxes; what's your point?
jesus, i can't hold my tongue any longer. this was the dumbest thing i've ever read.
child support is a supplement to the mother's income. it's for the child. that's why it's called "child support". if you don't want to pay it, don't get a woman pregnant. it really is that simple. what do you think, you're going to give a woman $1,000 a month and she's buying a new car and jewelry with it?
what a simple mind you have.
what is so unequal about giving a woman money for a child you helped produce? oh, i see. you want to wash your hands of the responsibility portion. i get it now. you are a coward.
maybe i'm missing something here. i must be. you can't possibly believe that making a man pay child support is an inequality. that's just assanine. just because some mothers have the ability to raise a child on their own after carrying it their womb for 9 months, doesn't mean we should relieve all men of their resonsibilities when impregnating a woman.
your logic is so flawed i'm astounded. actually, there's absolutely no logic involved at any point of your immature rant. i believe the word i was looking for was IGNORANCE.
what's even more pathetic is how righteous i'll bet you feel after all the immature teenagers and lonely, loser adults who would do anything for someone to acknowledge their existence (if even on the Internet) gave you some +2 fellatio.
i can't believe how smart everyone thinks they are on this stupid fucking website.
Submitted by FuckTheArmy (user info) at 2006-11-05 01:51:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think what we should do:
Tax the rich a lot more, and pay *all* mothers a decent income. That way, child support becomes a null concept, and equality is much more achievable.
Don't forget, children cost a lot, and moreover are worth a lot to society.
On another note, we should scrap the draft permanently.
Submitted by professorfuckface (user info) at 2006-11-05 01:43:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
How this ridiculous, troll-worthy post has a rating of +1 is beyond me. You think that $1000 a month is enough to entirely support a child? It's just a percentage of his income, it doesn't cover the costs of raising a kid, it's his SHARE.
And the bullshit about the father given a grace period to decide whether he wants to back out of being a father. Should he choose not to be the father then what? He drags her by the hair into an abortion clinic? He says farewell and shirks all responsibility? That's why the child support system is in place, to prevent that. If the father wants to be a complete cunt he can avoid it anyway, you're saying you want the deadbeat dad to be a character found socially acceptable.
What the fuck do you care anyway, you're in love with baby hannah. It's not a possibility for you.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2006-11-04 22:40:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
BRING ME A KNITTING NEEDLE AND A TRASHCAN, IT'S ABORTIN TIME
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-11-04 19:41:45 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
My dick wears a monocle.
Submitted by coley (user info) at 2006-11-04 18:55:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2006-11-04 18:48:43 (#)
Ranking: 0
Women are objects.
=======
true.
So are men, children, rocks, bathtubs and monocles.
I love monocles.
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2006-11-04 18:48:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Guess why it doesn't matter Kaelic.
Women are objects.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2006-11-04 16:58:19 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
Old news.
Submitted by Newty (user info) at 2006-11-04 16:22:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-11-04 16:15:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
Humanity's capacity to complicate things by simplifying them is astounding.
We tend to get lost in the semantics of our own confusion and lack the collective motivation to transcend all the bullshit we manufacture every single day.
We are truly : fucking retarded.
And we REALLY like to fuck.
-------
That should so be your slogan if you run for president
Submitted by coley (user info) at 2006-11-04 16:22:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-11-04 16:15:39 (#)
Ranking: 0
Humanity's capacity to complicate things by simplifying them is astounding.
We tend to get lost in the semantics of our own confusion and lack the collective motivation to transcend all the bullshit we manufacture every single day.
We are truly : fucking retarded.
And we REALLY like to fuck.
=====
OMG ROB BERG JUST FOUND THE MEANING OF LIFE
I'm pretty sure of it
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-11-04 16:15:39 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Humanity's capacity to complicate things by simplifying them is astounding.
We tend to get lost in the semantics of our own confusion and lack the collective motivation to transcend all the bullshit we manufacture every single day.
We are truly : fucking retarded.
And we REALLY like to fuck.
Submitted by ScarfaceMN (user info) at 2006-11-04 15:31:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't really think this has anything to do with women wanting or not wanting equal rights. But:
I do believe the child-support system in this country is fucked. My brother is paying out half of his income to the mother of my nephew. My nephew gets treated like shit by this bitch, and she once told my brother that she wished she never had my nephew. My brother also has no court defined visitation... no, they didn't say he can't visit, that's not part of the child support thing. If he wants a set visitation he has to hire a lawyer and pay out the ass and fight the bitch for it. Dumb cunts like this don't deserve shit, other than their children taken and placed in loving homes (my bro would take the nephew in a heartbeat.)
There's a lot of horrible women out there, just the same as there's a lot of horrible men.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2006-11-04 15:00:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Equality? heh... they would like superiority.
All of us humans do... and we are all individualy superior and inferior at all SORTS of things.
Its part of the 'magic'.
Submitted by MyNameIsTim (user info) at 2006-11-04 14:11:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
needs more cowheat
Submitted by Newty (user info) at 2006-11-04 14:02:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-04 13:55:23 (#)
Ranking: 0
There are so many horror stories surrounding this subject that it amazes me more people haven't come out in support AGAINST it. Nearly everyone I've talked to on a daily basis has some involvement with what I'm saying, and agrees on a very basic level that men should have a say post-sex whether they want to be fathers, just like women.
---------
"and agrees on a very basic level that men should have a say post-sex whether they want to be fathers, just like women."
wat do u mean by that?
Submitted by Kaelic (user info) at 2006-11-04 13:55:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
There are so many horror stories surrounding this subject that it amazes me more people haven't come out in support AGAINST it. Nearly everyone I've talked to on a daily basis has some involvement with what I'm saying, and agrees on a very basic level that men should have a say post-sex whether they want to be fathers, just like women.
Submitted by QueenAshlee (user info) at 2006-11-04 13:54:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by Newty (user info) at 2006-11-04 13:50:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-11-04 02:08:41 (#)
Ranking: 2
best argument for gay sex ever.
-----------
i agree in every way.
Submitted by jgreening (user info) at 2006-11-04 13:00:44 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Not for the woman. For the child."
-----
No offense, Circe. But you need to check out some Inner-City America, where Loquisha has 6 kids, is getting $1100 a month from the government PLUS a total of $750 from her three baby-daddies, and she still lives in rent-controlled projects, has a 60-inch DLP TV, has immaculate nails, hair and clothes, goes out with her girls every Friday night, and still sends her 3 school age kids to school in clothes that are maybe two steps up from rags and feeds them generic Mac & Cheese 3 nights a week for dinner while she orders pizza 4 days a week for her own lunch at home.
In the US, sadly, child support isn't ALWAYS for the child.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2006-11-04 12:35:49 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
What would a faggot like you know about women?
Submitted by LongestPants (user info) at 2006-11-04 12:03:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2006-11-04 09:46:26 (#)
Ranking: 1
The answer is "yes." Yes, we want equality, you fool.
The problem arises when little bitchy twats want equality and then some. Just like you said, then want their cake, etc.
HOWEVER, you shouldn't generalize, as you are clearly doing......
-----------------------
...I am by no means saying every single mother is like this, but there are enough...
-----------------------
LISTEN. Christ.
Submitted by Siren (user info) at 2006-11-04 09:46:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
The answer is "yes." Yes, we want equality, you fool.
The problem arises when little bitchy twats want equality and then some. Just like you said, then want their cake, etc.
HOWEVER, you shouldn't generalize, as you are clearly doing. You go on about how you're not trying to be an asshole and you really are sympathetic because your mom blah, blah, blah.... BUT, the fact of the matter is that you're still generalizing. And your mom being a courageous, independant woman means ONE thing. You respect YOUR MOM. Don't use this to distract us from the fact that you don't quite "respect" women as a gender. You may love them, but respect doesn't seem to be there.
Maybe men shouldn't be such sluts. Ever think of that? I think sometimes the man takes advantage of womens' loving, nurturing demeanor thinks, "Oh boy, I'm going home with this chick for a night- score!" This is a character flaw. The girl, vulnerably affected by his charm often thinks, "Such a nice guy, I'll show him I like him by letting him do me tonight." This is also a character flaw. That's how things like this happen.
Men can be slutty just like women. They can be whiney bitches like women. Just like women can be players and pimps. The point is, all people should be responsible for his/her own bullshit. We want equality. Those women who fall in the stampede of that reality, get what they deserve. If women want equal treatment, they should know survival of the fittest applies.
I know the law doesn't support this, which makes life difficult for men. But, you all should know by now that people are selfish. Think of that when you're sluttily charming a woman's pants off.
Submitted by Istaros (user info) at 2006-11-04 09:03:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2006-11-03 21:56:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
One last time, Kaelic - child support is not a reward for the woman. It's support for the child.
I'm keeping it really short so you can understand me.
Not for the woman. For the child."
BEWARE THE HORDES OF MORDOR
Submitted by Nomad (user info) at 2006-11-04 08:56:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
or sorry forgot one thing - pregnant women piss me off, most of the time.
THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU AND YOUR BABY. AND NO, I DONT WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER ONE, BITCH!
Sorry, sorry!! Okay okay! Sorry ladies, I have a bug up my ass about something, but thats a different story.
Anyway,
Pregnancy seems to be when the father of the child becomes and object to be used. That's acctually okay, a pregnant woman needs support.
But it's seems that more and more fathers these days just remain objects after the child is born.
Take it from me, I'm one of em.
Submitted by Nomad (user info) at 2006-11-04 08:52:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Reminds me of something a female coworker told me.
She her husband had separated, and she initally had custody. Dad lost his job and was unable to pay, but the state still persued collections and threatening legal action. Funny part is, my female coworker told the state to stop, said she didn't want any money from him until he was back on his feet. She didn't even want him to make up for the time during his unemployment.
The state never stopped, she had to lie and report that he had paid to get them off her ex husbands ass.
A few years later the kids went to live with dad. She was in the same situation, and when she went to the child support people & said she couldn't pay - they just shrugged it off and told her not to worry about it.
I have this suspicion that alot of angry feminist work for child support agencies.
Submitted by DeathJester (user info) at 2006-11-04 07:00:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Equality = Women walking topless around towns in hot weather.
Yeah...
Submitted by kuroneko_sama (user info) at 2006-11-04 06:07:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
there should be constant accounting for where child support money goes, like to a special credit card usable only for child related things.. (like a gas card...for kids). any item paid for in this mannor is not subject to return, only exchanges.
reciepts would be manditory.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2006-11-04 05:59:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2006-11-03 21:56:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
One last time, Kaelic - child support is not a reward for the woman. It's support for the child.
I'm keeping it really short so you can understand me.
Not for the woman. For the child.
----------
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. wow, lynn, whats it like in sunshine town where everything is peachy-keen and everyone has a shiny new pair of rose-coloured glasses?
Submitted by Creepy_guy (user info) at 2006-11-04 02:13:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Circe (user info) at 2006-11-03 21:56:27 (#)
Ranking: 0
One last time, Kaelic - child support is not a reward for the woman. It's support for the child.
I'm keeping it really short so you can understand me.
Not for the woman. For the child.
_________________________________________
Sorry, I really have to get in on this one...
Child support may be for the child, but that isn't where it always goes. I had a child with a woman who I ended up splitting up with; I payed a HUGE amount of my paycheck to her for child support. It was more than I figured she needed though, so I asked her to show the reciepts for all the stuff she was buying. She said no, so I kept trying. When she finally DID show me, only a VERY small portion of it was being used to buy child related things. Surprise.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2006-11-04 02:08:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
best argument for gay sex ever.
Submitted by nyxmar (user info) at 2006-11-04 00:13:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
sorry it didnt take my page breaks for some reason
Submitted by nyxmar (user info) at 2006-11-04 00:12:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I've seen many different views of this very topic personally. I've had a friend who lived out of his car for 1 and half years because child support ate up so much of his check he could no longer afford rent. The percentage of child support is only set up in the beginning. If you go to a lower paying job, you still owe the same amount. At least thats how it is in kentucky. His ex-wife even tried to get it lowered to no avail.
In Ohio they are a bit more reasonable, the mother can have the father sign away the rights for non support. I know several mothers who have done this and are making it, even though the struggle sometimes.
By far the worst is indiana. One of my best friends is still fighting a stupid stupid custody battle. in the beginning she gladly gave up her rights, then she wanted joint custody, then demanded full custody, then gave up the rights again. then showed up at his daughters school with a copy of the old agreement and took away across state lines. This is kidnapping, the judge let her off with a warning. In all the battles she has had the judge side with her. she has been through drug court, works as a stripper, taken her child to work with her at the strip bar, and recently gave up one mans child because her exboyfriend was getting out of jail soon and she didnt want him to find out she cheated on him. after all this she still has some custody rights.
Dont ever try to tell me that the system is not geared toward mothers, it is and always will be. The dads are seen as dead beat from the moment that first check is due. People that work in child support automatically take that view. Ive seen up close and too personal. I dont disagree, personally i feel if youre going to screw then you might have to pay. and you should. BUT the father should have some say where the money goes. The money should not be spent blindly by the mother. The father should be entitled to reciepts of everything his money goes to so he knows where his investment is going. Ive seen plenty of people that live beyond their means because they get that check, many consider it their vacation check, and that is wrong.
Single mothers get all the props in the world, Im friends with 8 of them and i know its hard. But fathers should have rights too, and if they pay and do the things they are supposed to do then they should have a say in things. all in all men should pay, but women do have more rights then they do, it should be equalized. one thing that has always bothered me about this topic is, where are the mans rights when a man wants the child but the woman doesnt, so she has an abortion, where's his ability to speak up. if its half mine i should have a say right. but i dont, women do have it both ways on this topic
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2006-11-03 23:59:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
The solution is to allow men to waive their parental rights during a certain set period of time before the child is born. This would grant men the same freedom from responsibility that women have, and level the playing field. And why not? There would be far less unwanted pregnancies without that paycheck coming in. That would mean the children that were born would be born into happier, better homes. Homes where the parents both assumed and wanted responsibility for raising a child.
-----------------------------------
I agree with this in prinnciple, but even if "babies dadies" could sign away their responsiblity as long as it was accepted people would keep the kid. And blame the dad, or the system, or their parents, and pass it on, until they were stealing a TV because theirs wans't big enough.
Submitted by Durae (user info) at 2006-11-03 23:46:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
If you don't want to be a daddy, don't have sex with someone who would keep the pregnancy.
In order to really protect yourself against this unwanted fatherhood, have this conversation before the accident happens. Never have sex with someone who doesn't share your views on this. Take some time to get to know a person before removing your pants. It's really not that tricky.
Every man I have sex with knows where I stand on abortion. That I don't want children, now or possibly ever, and if an accident were to occur, their "unborn child" would be aborted even if that meant trampling over their wishes to get to the abortion clinic. It's up to you as a man to then opt out if you know that your partner isn't on the same page about this, because when it comes to pregnancy, your opinion is not important.
If unwanted pregnancy is really something that keeps you up at night, donate some money to planned parenthood. They're the ones working their asses off to make sure that these choices remain available. Instead of being concerned about what individual women might or might not do to "ruin your life" by getting knocked up (and the fact is that the only part of your life that might get ruined is your wallet - all other commitments are optional), worry about what the conservatives are doing to force pregnancy on women (and men) who don't want it.
It's counter-productive to turn this around and blame women for getting child support, and for needing child support to care for a child. That is a problem that can be solved on a person-to-person basis, by discussing this with yo