What do you think of this? (512 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 1.06 on 28 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by GMCrayon (View user info) at 2007-01-26 09:50:04 EST
I was just speaking to a Christian friend who told me that she would be going to a mission trip to spread the gospel in Korea. She also mentioned the teams currently in places like Saudi Arabia and China, where they have to resort to code words and stuff because evangelism is illegal there.
I have no issue with mission trips per se. In poverty stricken areas, the schools and hospitals built by the evangelists can mean a huge improvement in the quality of life.
But what about trips to countries where it is explicitly forbidden by law? Is it not common sense to obey the laws of your host country? Female tourists in Islamic countries are routinely advised to dress modestly out of respect. Shouldn't the same concept apply here, maybe to an even greater measure?
People of Uber, what do you think? My own opinion notwithstanding, is it right to lie and enter another country and knowingly break their laws, for the sake of religious duty?
User Reviews
Submitted by Fey (user info) at 2007-01-26 14:28:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Laws shmaws.
Pressing your beliefs on someone else, that is what is wrong. Schools, yes. By all and any means necessary, give people schools. But religion? No.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-01-26 14:17:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-01-26 13:27:18 (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by dexpaxas (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:08:31 (#)
Ranking: 2
breaking laws=being beheaded in some countries
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:03:22 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:52:59 (#)
Ranking: 1
Ever met a religion that preaches freedom and respect ?
Call me when you do ...
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buddhism.
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Buddhism is a way of life, a philosophy, a psychology, a way of thinking, not a religion. So fuck off with that.
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Sorry, but that's fucking tripe. Buddhism is more of a path to spiritual enlightenment, and its tenets are a guidance along that path. It's a journey of faith, and to the eyes of most of the world, that makes it a religion. So, uh, unless you have special eyes, really really special ones? You can fuck off with that.
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if it has a heirarchical organizational structure (Dalai, Panchen Lamas, monks, etc) that makes it a religion.
Thanks for playing.
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-01-26 13:27:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by dexpaxas (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:08:31 (#)
Ranking: 2
breaking laws=being beheaded in some countries
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:03:22 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:52:59 (#)
Ranking: 1
Ever met a religion that preaches freedom and respect ?
Call me when you do ...
--------
buddhism.
--------
Buddhism is a way of life, a philosophy, a psychology, a way of thinking, not a religion. So fuck off with that.
==============
Sorry, but that's fucking tripe. Buddhism is more of a path to spiritual enlightenment, and its tenets are a guidance along that path. It's a journey of faith, and to the eyes of most of the world, that makes it a religion. So, uh, unless you have special eyes, really really special ones? You can fuck off with that.
Submitted by dexpaxas (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:08:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
breaking laws=being beheaded in some countries
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:03:22 (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:52:59 (#)
Ranking: 1
Ever met a religion that preaches freedom and respect ?
Call me when you do ...
--------
buddhism.
--------
Buddhism is a way of life, a philosophy, a psychology, a way of thinking, not a religion. So fuck off with that.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:07:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
also, not all laws are good things.
so who knows. if they get beheaded they will be martyred on one side and punished for criminal activity on the other.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-01-26 12:03:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:52:59 (#)
Ranking: 1
Ever met a religion that preaches freedom and respect ?
Call me when you do ...
--------
buddhism.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2007-01-26 11:53:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Give unto God what is God's. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
Submitted by Beano312003 (user info) at 2007-01-26 11:07:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
What scourge said.
Submitted by homer42 (user info) at 2007-01-26 11:07:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think those kind of people make me sick and they should keep their goddamn religion to themselves!
Submitted by St_Jimmy (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:57:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Basically, your question breaks down into the following: "Do an individual's intention make an act right or wrong, or is that determined by the outcome of the action?"
The missionary's intention is good, because he/she truly believes they are saving people from eternal damnation in a pit of demons and hot, firey sparks. If intention matters, and the intention is good, then the act is right.
However, the real world outcome of the act is breaking the law of a foreign country, which is bad. If an act's outcome determines whether an act is right or wrong, then missionary work is wrong.
You're asking an old question here. I've been thinking of doing a "2 rabbits discuss" on this. For more on outcome-based ethics, read Kant's Metaphysics of Morals. For more on intention-based ethics, read John Stuart Mill's Utilitarianism.
Good thought-provoking post.
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:46:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think that the whole ethos behind missionary work is condescending and imperialistic- and that ultimately, it doesn't help.
Submitted by Amontillado (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:37:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by mynameisandy (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:18:42 (#)
Ranking: 0
We need to send scientists over there to tell them how they can improve their quality of life with knowledge, not blind faith and wishfull thinking. Imagine all the time that's wasted on religious teachings in these schools, when that time could be used to teach the little brown kiddies about useful stuff, like engineering and other cool shit.
"Hey Mrs' White Lady. How do I build a well?"
"Fuck wells! Let me teach you a badass RAIN DANCE!"
But hey, at least they're helping.
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agreed
Submitted by ubetidid (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:33:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Why of course it's all right to lie.
Especially if you're, say, someone like
Pat Robertson and you're making a lot of
money off Christianity.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:32:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Talibandrew (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:20:32 (#)
Ranking: 1
Having been an evengelic christian in the past, i can tell you that they don't think of it as terrorism and they don't care about the laws against what they are doing. The way they see it is that if they don't get over there and tell them about God, the people of that country will never have a chance to hear His word and therefore go to hell. And them being given the chance to do that and not take it can weight heavily on their conscience. They think that they should take every chance to spread the word especially if it is to people who have and may never hear it. I know a lot of christians who, when they fail to tell someone whom they thought needed it, they feel a great debt of guilt and remorse, almost like they sent them to hell and in turn they will be going to hell. I'm not one of them anymore, but i was for many years and my sister still is one. I have to hear her bullshit all the time. Just a little thought.
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If that's not cult mentality than nothing is...
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:31:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Can I have their name, so I can report them to the proper authorities?
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:21:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:58:26 (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:52:59 (#)
Ranking: 1
Ever met a religion that preaches freedom and respect ?
Call me when you do ...
=======================
Buddhism, slick.
I think this is a pretty interesting issue, mainly because a member of my family was involved in a similar-ish situation. I visited her while she was doing missionary work in Africa, which while not openly hostile to Christians, didn't seem particularly welcoming. At the same time as spreading the word of God, she was carrying out vital veterinary work in small villages, saving sick animals and whatnot. To me, she was carrying out a service, and at the same time telling people about her God who had given her the skills to do such work. If missionaries in hostile countries were to adopt a similar approach of offering services at the same time as an alternate religious viewpoint, then I think this might not be such a contentious issue.
(that was a rather large copy , but otherwise we lose the coherrence of the discussion..)
I must confess that buddhism is the most satisfying religion/faith i've seen untill 'orgasmatron'
wrote ; "Try to believe modesty ,sold to you by a 300 pounds weighing guy" ... That made me rethink that one aswell . (can't find the link , should have archived it!)
And about the story of your family-member , i must agree . There are people who can be sincerely good , just like there are sincerely bad people .
Religion is no guarantee to make a good person .
No religion is no guarantee to make a bad person .
Only sanity can make a person conclude he is dependent of his surroundings and fellow-man .
I like good people , If they're religous or not , is insignificant , to me ...
Maybe that's bullshit , or i went into incoherrent-mode again . Slippery subject , this is...
Submitted by hot_pocket (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:20:56 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
no, its not ok
Submitted by Talibandrew (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:20:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Having been an evengelic christian in the past, i can tell you that they don't think of it as terrorism and they don't care about the laws against what they are doing. The way they see it is that if they don't get over there and tell them about God, the people of that country will never have a chance to hear His word and therefore go to hell. And them being given the chance to do that and not take it can weight heavily on their conscience. They think that they should take every chance to spread the word especially if it is to people who have and may never hear it. I know a lot of christians who, when they fail to tell someone whom they thought needed it, they feel a great debt of guilt and remorse, almost like they sent them to hell and in turn they will be going to hell. I'm not one of them anymore, but i was for many years and my sister still is one. I have to hear her bullshit all the time. Just a little thought.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:19:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I like when "missionaries" go to countries they aren't wanted and get killed by the people they are trying to "save".
Really warms the heart, y'know.
Submitted by mynameisandy (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:18:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
We need to send scientists over there to tell them how they can improve their quality of life with knowledge, not blind faith and wishfull thinking. Imagine all the time that's wasted on religious teachings in these schools, when that time could be used to teach the little brown kiddies about useful stuff, like engineering and other cool shit.
"Hey Mrs' White Lady. How do I build a well?"
"Fuck wells! Let me teach you a badass RAIN DANCE!"
But hey, at least they're helping.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:12:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
When others do that in America, we call it terrorism. But that's only because we have religious freedom here so preaching and trying to convert people isn't against the law. Blowing up buildings full of people who didn't convert, however, is.
If you're visiting another country, take off you preacher's collar if wearing it is expressly illegal.
Submitted by forthewin (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:10:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:56:10 (#)
Ranking: 2
right and wrong don't really exist.
your moral priorities will determine your behavior. to a christian, this is the highest moral good, converting the savage heathens over to the light so that their unclean souls can be saved. in that mindset, this takes precedence over the morals that are intended to be upheld by the laws they are breaking. therefore, they are serving a higher moral good, and are right.
to the heathens, their moral determinations, which are upheld by thess anti-evangelism laws, are being undermined by something of negative moral value. so THEY are right.
blah blah blah
leave me alone and let me drink my tea, its too early in the morning for questions like this.
______________________
I've said just about the exact same thing. The conclusion I came to is that the only way to measure if something is really wrong is if it's intentionally having a negative effect on other people. And that's still a grey area.
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:06:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Personally if you visit a country you are there as a guest. If that means I can't drink alcohol; so be it. If it means I can't take drugs; so be it. The same goes with trying to force people to addopt a faith that is deemed illegal in that country.
I have little to no sympathy for people who do these things and get caught and find themselves on death row in some fleas ridden cell crying about the injustice of it. Then our pathetic governments jump on the band wagon and try to interfere with another coutries laws. Let them be.
Surely true 'Christians' should be happy with people having any faith no matter what it is. They should concentrate on the people in countries who are in a position to either, practice it freely or, turn round to them and tell them where to place their bible.
Let the fuckers that get caught hang for all I care. How can we expect people to come to our countries and obey our laws; if we are sending people to their countries to break the law and encourage them to break them too.
* takes a deep breath and steps down from soap box *
Submitted by scum101 (user info) at 2007-01-26 10:06:05 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
what scourge said except i woulda said "only bad & good" depending on what side of the fence you are standing and just because that's how i roll.
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:58:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:52:59 (#)
Ranking: 1
Ever met a religion that preaches freedom and respect ?
Call me when you do ...
=======================
Buddhism, slick.
I think this is a pretty interesting issue, mainly because a member of my family was involved in a similar-ish situation. I visited her while she was doing missionary work in Africa, which while not openly hostile to Christians, didn't seem particularly welcoming. At the same time as spreading the word of God, she was carrying out vital veterinary work in small villages, saving sick animals and whatnot. To me, she was carrying out a service, and at the same time telling people about her God who had given her the skills to do such work. If missionaries in hostile countries were to adopt a similar approach of offering services at the same time as an alternate religious viewpoint, then I think this might not be such a contentious issue.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:56:10 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
right and wrong don't really exist.
your moral priorities will determine your behavior. to a christian, this is the highest moral good, converting the savage heathens over to the light so that their unclean souls can be saved. in that mindset, this takes precedence over the morals that are intended to be upheld by the laws they are breaking. therefore, they are serving a higher moral good, and are right.
to the heathens, their moral determinations, which are upheld by thess anti-evangelism laws, are being undermined by something of negative moral value. so THEY are right.
blah blah blah
leave me alone and let me drink my tea, its too early in the morning for questions like this.
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:52:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Ever met a religion that preaches freedom and respect ?
Call me when you do ...
Submitted by GMCrayon (user info) at 2007-01-26 09:51:21 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
*ON a mission trip
Bleh