Porch Collapse? It couldn't be your own fault. (1334 hits)
Category: HumorRating: -0.56 on 37 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by <naysayer09.at.yahoo.com> (View user info) at 2003-07-08 22:51:09 EDT
I have to laugh at this one.
For those of you who haven't heard, there were some poeple in Chicago about 9 days ago who were having a party of some sort in downtown Chicago. There was a back, wooden porch. It collapsed. Last I heard, 13 people had died. The porch was 2 levels. The top level collapsed onto the second, and part of it fell as well.
You want to know why it collapsed? I'm guessing it had something to do with the fact there were over 100 people on the fucking thing.
Boo hoo. I'm sorry, but it you're that fucking stupid, you deserve whatever fate you're dealt. The world doesn't need you breeding more stupid people.
Now the families of the deceased have their teams of high powered attorneys, and they're suing everybody. Going after the owner of the home (it was rented from what I understand), and the guy who built the porch.
A lot of the people who died were college graduates. A lot of good a college education does you if you have no common sense. Obviously, not one of them were a structural engineer, otherwise, maybe some lives would have been saved.
For those of you who are still clueless, there is not one single porch, built solely for residential use, that is intended to sustain the weight of 100 people. Those of you who say otherwise, prove it. I'm talking residential usage. If there is one (and most likely there is)that is built to hold that many poeple, it was built with that in mind, and was beefed up to support that kind of weight.
There are already such things as maximum allowable spans, joist spacing, lumber thicknesses and such that have to be followed in constructing a deck. It's pretty much idiot proof. If you could copy homework in school, you could follow a chart and build a deck to specifications. When building anything of the sort, you have to have a permit. In a deck such as this, you have to have an inspection of the framing, usually before any decking is applied, and then another inpection when the deck is complete.
Fuck! 100 fucking people. Think about it. Say the average weight of the poeple on there was 150 lbs. That's 15,000 lbs. 7 1/2 TONS. On one deck. Does that sound safe to you? Say everyone was dispersed equally on the 2 levels, that's still 3 3/4 tons per level. Hell, that's like Hidden and I parking both of our vehicles on one level. If we parked on the top level, would you want to party on the lower one? Do you people have a clearer picture of what I'm getting at here?
If anyone should be sueing anyone, they should sue the city of Chicago. Chances are good that a permit was pulled, and an inspection was performed. If the lawyers feel the deck was inadequate, they need to name the city of Chicago in the lawsuit, as they passed it in the inspection.
It's been my experience with village inspectors that the vast majority of them don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, anyway. Most of them are just nobodies who know someone on the city board who can get them a job. They read a few books on structural codes, take a test(an easy one), and they're in. Just like that, they inpect things, often passing sub-par craftmanship.
In a city as corrupt as Chicago, oftentimes all it takes is a small envelope to change hands and you pass inspection. Everyone has a price. Ultimately, the price of this one was the lives of 13 people.
User Reviews
Submitted by Insanethemind (user info) at 2003-07-13 09:18:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Stupidass
Submitted by TheMan (user info) at 2003-07-10 18:19:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Ok.
To Bart, dickhead extraordinaire. One question. What do you not comprehend about maximum weight
capacity? Why stop at 50 or 100? Why not 200 people? Where do you draw that line where common
sense comes into play? How much weight do you think one of those decks will hold?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030629/lo_wkmg/1677898
"It was simply a case of TOO MANY PEOPLE in a small space," Joyce said.
"It's a tragic case of OVERLOADING the back porches," he said. "We have concern over tomorrow
(Sunday). We know that tomorrow is a big day in this community with the parade, and we urge
everyone to use COMMON SENSE and not overload the porches."
"Chicago Police said as many as 40 or 50 people may have been on the porch at the time of the
collapse -- FAR MORE THAN THE BUILDING'S DECKS ARE DESIGNED TO HOLD, according to neighbors."
"The porches back there could probably facilitate 20 to 30 people," said one neighbor, Dr. David
Guelich, an orthopedic surgeon at Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where some of the victims were
taken."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030702/ts_alt_afp/us_collapse_030702224713
"An engineer reported earlier in the week that THE PORCH WAS SOUND, blaming the collapse to a
third-floor wooden support that snapped under the crowd's weight."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030701/ap_on_re_us/porch_collapse_47
"A structural engineer conducted a preliminary examination and determined that the porch was sound
before the collapse, Reyes said Sunday. City officials are investigating whether the porch gave way because it was overloaded."
Yes, I know they didn't have a permit. I know it was built bigger than what their law allows. Big deal. Doesn't mean it wasn't structurally sound, before the massive overload with all the
partying. PARTYING. There's a lot of movement going on. What kind of stresses do you think that
has on such a structure?
I'm sure you've seen on TV or read how military troops collapse bridges by marching in unison.
This is it on a vastly smaller scale. I guess we have to put up signs now saying how many people a deck will hold just so this shit doesn't happen again. People are so stupid. You sound like one of them.
If you were on a cruise ship that sank, and then were in a lifeboat, how many people would you let
get into that boat before it bagan to sink? Then as it's sinking, what would you do? I guess you
would just let it sink and then sue the lifeboat manufacturer (or your family would) because they
didn't make it big enough to support all those people.
Elevators have signs stating their maximum weight capacity. Do you really need a sign telling you
the elevator will only hold so much weight? If so, grab your stupid sign.
You're the computer guru. I don't tell you your business, because I don't know nothing about that. I'm a carpenter, and a damn good one. I know my shit just as you do yours. Don't come in this post and talk to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been doing this for nearly 12 years. I've seen more and done more than most guys who have been in this trade for 20 or more.
And you obviously can't tell shit from my post. Or any of my past ones. I am from Chicago. Spent quite a bit of time there in my younger years. I never lived there. I grew up in Richton Park and Orland Park. Lived in Chicago Heights, Hinsdale, Hoffman Estates, and now Algonquin. I've worked downtown. I worked there a lot. I've seen how everybody parties on their porches and balconies. I don't disagree with you on that point. The whole point of this post was COMMON SENSE. Aparently, it's not all that common nowadays.
I hope the families of the deceased never see a fucking dime. If it were my kid who died, I would
be fucking embarrassed. What a dumb way to die. Stupidity. If I had a kid half as stupid, it
wouldn't live past the age of 3.
I'd like to see the owner of the building turn right around and countersue. I'd be saying "Fucking goddamn kids! They broke my fucking porch! Who the hells going to pay for this shit?!" They partied on it. They broke it. They should pay for it. I'd name everybody who was on that thing. I'd name everyone who ever looked at my porch that night.
What's next? Maybe the families would like to sue the guy who stained/painted the porch. If it
even was stained. Stupid people with their stupid lawsuits. My god, when will it end? When will
people start taking responsibility and accept the consequences of their actions? There is no
self-accountability anymore. It's always someone else's fault.
"I'm not to blame, it was his fault."
If I said that as a child, I got smacked. My parents knew better. Unlike the majority of the
people in this world, they refused to let the wool get pulled over their eyes.
At this point, my only regret is that you, Bart, were not at that party, on the lower level at
12:30 a.m. that day. Ubersite would live on.
Submitted by dolphgr13 (user info) at 2003-07-09 17:13:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I have to side with Manfre and TheMan on this one. Yes, we know it's tragedy that people died, it's not funny, as I earlier pointed out, especially for victim's families, and maybe a lot of people were to drunk or stupid to notice the deck was gonna fall.
Note: too STUPID too think that the deck might fall....
case closed
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2003-07-09 16:48:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by Manfre (user info) at 2003-07-09 16:27:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I was under the impression that there were only 2 levels and that 100 of them were on the upper portion which is why it dropped...
Still the fact that you would have to feel the deck sway and HEAR it as well as feel it crack would make me run my ass to the house.
If your on the bottom portion you would physically see the beams buckle and bend and DEFINETLY hear them splinter before they cracked.
Its not thin wood where you wouldnt hear much and its not just one piece holding up a portion. Odds are it was several (maybe 4?) pieces of lumber (4x4 purhaps) per each tier. If you cant see or hear that splinter and crack and buckle then your a moron. Trust me my father built our deck with his company and I had to hear all the bullshit about safety and structural engineering and how it helps hold a deck up.
Submitted by lucid (user info) at 2003-07-09 16:05:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I always think it's funnier when 13 people die as opposed to something miniscule like 5 or 6.
It was really funny when the Germans burned all those jewish people, and it's even funnier that in modern day Africa everybody is dying from aids.
I just can't stop smiling thinking about all them dead and dying people.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2003-07-09 16:02:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sounds great. We could invite the first 100 Uberisters to sign up.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2003-07-09 15:56:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sure Razor, if I win I'll build a big deck on my house and have a party.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2003-07-09 14:47:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Loki, can I have a million dollars?
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2003-07-09 14:37:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
TheMan - Help me out here, I'm buying lottery tickets for the big $250M jackpot and since you can see into the future, how about picking some numbers for me? If I win I'll share.
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2003-07-09 14:23:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I may be wrong, but I don't think this was a private party. I think the people responsible for the deck should get their asses sued BIG TIME. I would in a heartbeat.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2003-07-09 14:15:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Ok idiot, first of all there weren't 100 people on one level. It was a three level porch. The bulk of the people were on the top floor. The bulk of the people who died were on the bottom floor. Are you saying that the people on the bottom floor should have been responsible for checking the structural integrity of the porch, verifying that the owner had built to specification, and that the folks on the top floor did not exceed the maximum weight tolerance for the porch?
Dick, if you go to a party and there are twenty hot young women outside, are you telling me that you're going to stay in the kitchen because you haven't verified the structural integrity of the porch? What about the structural integrity of the apartment itself? If those people weren't on the porch, they would have been inside. How many people is reasonable to have in a kitchen? The fire department would probably say four. So the fifth person who comes to the apartment has to wait in the hall for someone to leave. Great party, dipshit. Grow a brain.
In conclusion, you are a dumbass and anyone who agrees with you will probably burn in hell.
Submitted by TheMan (user info) at 2003-07-09 13:56:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
If the guy didn't have permits, that does not mean it was not built to specifications. It just means he's fucked. He'll have to prove in court that it was.
Calling me an asshole and whatever other names you come up with does not change the fact that these kids were stupid. 100 people, and not one person the whole time maybe said "Hey, maybe there are too many people on here."?
Give me a break, you're asking for disaster. I'm sure all the specifics of the deck will come out in the lawsuit, so we'll see. In the debris shown on the news in the dumpsters at O'hare, I saw all the right parts; joist hangers, tecos, quality lumber. They will be able to piece it together and tell if it was built right or not, without a problem. If it wasn't, then the guy is liable.
If it comes out that the deck was built right and would have passed inspection, who would you blame then? Is ignorance forgivable in this instance? I don't think so. I have an 8 by 8 porch. I'm gonna cram 40 fucking people on it, stacked 2 high until it breaks just so I can sue the builder. Makes perfect sense, right? Of course not, but according to you poeple, that would be ok.
They say ignorance is bliss, and it's apparent in this thread. Wake up. Is it sad that people died? Yes. It's how they died. They could have avoided death had they pulled their heads out of their asses.
And I would agree, know something about construction and carpentry before you speak of this topic.
Submitted by Manfre (user info) at 2003-07-09 12:17:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I just read Barts reply and if there were no permits for the deck then theres no way that it could have been built to specifications because there would have been no inspections. In either case the owner is fucked but the occupants are just as stupid for staying on a deck that didnt feel right.
Submitted by turveytopsy (user info) at 2003-07-09 12:17:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
antluvdog: I'm a Cubs fan and really want to see them do well, but I'm more interested in the Sox and their playoff push. 'The Curse' will come and whipe the Cubs out. It would be nice to see the Cubs have a post season for once though.
Submitted by marley at 2003-07-09 12:15:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"Boo hoo. I'm sorry, but it you're that fucking stupid, you deserve whatever fate you're dealt."
You're a dick. But, judging from your statement, you'll die soon.
Submitted by Manfre (user info) at 2003-07-09 12:08:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Rick, you're a dumbass. You can make something out of styrofoam to hold 100 people. Get your head out of your ass and think before you speak."
Yeah and itd be thick as shit and large as hell.
Im pretty sure the deck started swaying after about 50 people were on it and thats a dead give away. Know something about construction and carpentry before you say that 100 people on a wood deck is reasonable. If it was made to hold that many people it wouldnt sway. If you think it didnt sway any then your a goddamned moron because in order for something such as a deck to fall it MUST fall to a side unless the beams just snap. Even if the support beams snap it will sway. Enough so its noticable.
If your on a 2nd level deck thats swaying and making odd noises would you stay on it? If so then you deserve to die you fucking idiot.
Yeah see how fast 100 people start sinking in that styrofoam deck of yours. Itd have to have support of some kind so dont say you can make a platform out of styrofoam to support 100 people. Its not all styrofoam. Wood or metal beams would have to be placed with stryofoam used as a coating or a filler in between each beam.
Doesnt really sound like a styrofoam deck now does it? Sounds more like a standard deck with a styrofoam base.
Hey Im sure you could make a deck to support 100 people outta paper too.
Submitted by antluvdog (user info) at 2003-07-09 11:59:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What Bart said. You're an asshole.
Bart: are the Cubs going to do it this year or what?
Submitted by hendrixjrr (user info) at 2003-07-09 10:02:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Rick, you're a dumbass. You can make something out of styrofoam to hold 100 people. Get your head out of your ass and think before you speak.
Submitted by Manfre (user info) at 2003-07-09 09:58:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"If people died every time they did something stupid, the human race would have become extinct thousands of years ago."
Its called survival of the fittest. Im a firm believe in removing warning labels so that we can pinpoint the idiots in the world.
If your out partying and your on a WOOD deck which is raised (more than 4 feet off the ground) and there were so many people that it was crammed would you go out there? Wouldnt YOU wonder if it was gonna fall? Wouldnt you think its unsafe? No matter how drunk you are you know that if your on something thats higher than 4 feet and made of wood it wont hold the weight of the amount of people shoulder to shoulder.
Its like the lawsuit where the moron spilled coffee on her and sued for millions and WON! Its fucking common sense. Coffee is hot. You spill it on yourself you get burned. Id be a billionaire if I sued every time I spilled some coffee on me. Its just fucking common sense.
Wood doesnt hold all that much weight. Steel on the other hand does.
Submitted by hendrixjrr (user info) at 2003-07-09 09:57:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
We need to know how big the porches were before we can make judgements. Fuck yourselves!
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2003-07-09 09:47:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
If you're really sitting around at a party trying to calculate the structural integrity of the facility, then you need to drink more.
It's a bit of a hyperbole to claim that they disserved to die just because they were at a party and had the misfortune of being out on a porch that collapsed. Who really thinks that a porch is going to collapse. Tell the truth, every single time you go into a building do you check to make sure that all fire exits are unblocked and that the sprinkler systems are properly installed?
So why don't we all drag them into court, the crime? Being out on a porch on a nice summer day at a party. GUILTY AS CHARGED! The punishment? death, that's right haul them all off to the gas chamber for being idiots.
If people died every time they did something stupid, the human race would have become extinct thousands of years ago.
Submitted by d_d (user info) at 2003-07-09 09:13:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
im sure they were just partying, and werent keeping track of how many ppl were there.
youre an ignorant prikshot.
Submitted by Manfre (user info) at 2003-07-09 08:16:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
They deserve to die. No lawsuits.
Stupid people deserve death...
Submitted by yidele (user info) at 2003-07-09 06:16:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
What he said.
Submitted by DuneMessiah (user info) at 2003-07-09 02:56:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
fitting as many people into phonebooth as you can is not dangerous. Stuffing people into a vw is not dangerous. trying to fit 100 people on a porch is idiotic. thats like trying to find out how many people can hang off a bungee cord before it breaks. Those people were idiots.
P.S. Not saying that i wouldn't do the same thing. I would have probaly been on that porch too. What i am saying is that i would expect people to laugh at me for dying like i did.
Submitted by K.M (user info) at 2003-07-09 01:50:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hair is a right on guy
Submitted by Hairsphincter (user info) at 2003-07-09 01:30:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
and yeah, what bart said.
Submitted by Hairsphincter (user info) at 2003-07-09 01:24:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Dolph, I rated this -2 because I don't think it's funny, comments like "atleast there are 13 less degree toters out there stealing my money." cause a reaction in me. I don't understand where that kind of negative energy comes from.
All those people had families, friends, lovers, co-workers. And they are gone.
It's not a joke, and i was hoping that satircal post from me would have come accross that way - do you think a father would really think like that about his daughter.
-2
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2003-07-09 01:14:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I live in Chicago about six blocks from where that porch collapsed. I can tell from your comments that:
a) you're an asshole
b) you've never been to Chicago
One of the defining elements of the Chicago north side is porches and rooftop decks. There are literally thousands upon thousands of buildings with such structures. Since we have what seems like six months of winter weather, when it gets warm outside, people flock to porches, decks, beer gardens, restaurants with outdoor seating, etc. So to answer the comment about why the people were on the porch, the answer is "because they could be". Obviously the porch was big enough. I'm guessing there were some people sitting on the railing, some on the steps, some standing, and so on. 100 people across three separate floors is not as many as it may sound like.
To top that off, the guy who built this particular porch did not have the appropriate permits to do so. That doesn't mean that the city goes around and inspects every building and structure for permits, it just means that when shit goes down (ie. this), there is someone to blame - in this case the owner. If the parents feel this is a wrongful death case, they have to sue the owner and that would then ordinarily go through to the owner's insurance company. In this case, since he didn't have the proper permits, I'm going to guess that he's just plain fucked. I mean, do you really expect the parents of these kids to be happy saying "My son died at a party Saturday because the owner of the building put up a structurally inadequate porch without a permit. Oh well, live and learn!"
You can say the kids should have known better, but should they have had to? It's not like they were chopping at the thing with axes or setting the railings on fire. They were hanging out on the porch on a hot Saturday night in just the same way as thousands and thousands of other people in the city. Is 100 people a lot of people to have on a porch? Sure. Eight people is a lot to have in a Volkswagen, but if the thing blew up because of it, who would you blame?
Submitted by dolphgr13 (user info) at 2003-07-09 00:03:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Hair, you have to see the "funny" side to this. OK, maybe it's not something that should be laughed at, I'm sure the victims families are trying to overcome such a terrible loss for them, and are in disbelief. But come on. 100 dumbasses and kegs on a deck that's meant to hold at most 20 or so people (guessing).
Would it be too harsh saying someone deserved to die for being so eternally stupid?
Submitted by Hairsphincter (user info) at 2003-07-08 23:42:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
theman, I am not typing from the beyond, beeyotch.
Submitted by TheMan (user info) at 2003-07-08 23:28:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
What's a father to say?
How about...
"My daughter was a victim of her own stupidity. She will be missed, but the world is better off now."
How can you deny the unbelievable stupidity of these people? Hmmmmm, maybe you are one of them? They usually side with their own.
Submitted by Hairsphincter (user info) at 2003-07-08 23:21:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Dead people are hilarious. Just think how much their loved ones are laughing as we speak... "Hey did you hear my daughter, the PHD student, well you know Suzie... Yeah, she's like ***dead*** because a balcony fell on her head. HA! What's a father to say? Scrape up the brains and post 'em to my office - they cost me a fortune, ya know! Suzie was sure hilarious with her death..."
Submitted by K.M (user info) at 2003-07-08 23:15:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by TheMan (user info) at 2003-07-08 23:11:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Thanks for the update. I had originally heard it was a 2 level porch. I heard about it all week last week, and it disgusted me.
Oh, the stupidity.
Submitted by DuneMessiah (user info) at 2003-07-08 23:04:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
it was a 3 level porch. most of those who died were on the bottom level. they had the joy of feeling their classmates come crashing down on them. The only reason i can see for this many people to be outside is that maybe the owner or renter or whatever didn't want smoking iside the house. Those kids can have all the degrees they want. they can have a fucking degree cake walk for all i care. i take their degree on paper and compare it to my practical skills in the field and laugh. then again that piece of paper gets them higher pay. its a fucked up world. atleast there are 13 less degree toters out there stealing my money.