Disgusting state of modern British Justice. (1013 hits)
Category: GeneralRating: 1.32 on 65 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Sexualchocolate (View user info) at 2007-03-21 07:01:06 EDT
Justice, that's what democracy promises us. Justice, freedom, liberty and bullshit!
My group of friends and I hang out in a local village. It's a nice quiet farming community, local pub, cricket grounds, and fields for miles around. We are all upstanding, hard working, kind people (well except Ed, but he's a lot better since he got back from Prison for drunk driving and assaulting an officer) we all work jobs, pay tax and generally abide by the law.
That is, except for our one vice, cannabis. We all smoke, a lot. We have a static caravan in the bottom of a field where we hang out, smoke, drink tea, watch TV and talk crap for days on end. We've all be smoking for many years, and are quick to discourage new smokers from starting. After all, it is a drug.
So we've been getting on with our lives, building our respective careers, paying our taxes and keeping below the radar for the last 6 / 7 years. We decided that buying all this herbal satisfaction was getting far too expensive (around £400 a week between all of us) so, we set up a little growing operation.
My uncle and his group of friends run a building contractor company. They all drive brand new top of the range cars, have huge houses and generally walk around like they own the world. The company is actually owned by my aunt and cousin, as my uncles already bankrupted 2 companies.
This he does by simply not paying suppliers, and lying and cheating all the way to the bank. Apparently this week one of my cousins has been kidnapped, so they're unable to pay a supplier that is linked to me. I know that my cousin is at home safe and sound, I saw her at the weekend. I'm sure he wouldn't be on a plane to Australia right now for his 3rd holiday this year if someone had really kidnapped his child!
When talking to this supplier the other day, he told me how his children have had to go without on their birthdays, how he can't afford to pay his staff, (who have already done the work for my uncle) and he can't take on new business because he doesn't have the up front funds for materials. All because my uncle needs to spend the £50,000 he owes him on a new Porsche and a trip to Australia, and what exactly can you say to the excuse "my daughter has been kidnapped, and I need your payment for the ransom"?
Back to us... For the past 2 years we've been growing successfully, no worries from the authorities, no problems with security, or robbery, we simply grew the nicest bud around, smoked most and sorted out our mates. However, anyone who's been in possession of a large quantity of cannabis knows how quickly news spreads between smokers! So within a couple of months of our last top notch Chronic grow we had a nice little client base of friendly village locals joining us for a smoke and often purchasing our wares. The profits of these sales went to funding the next grow, and the circle of life begins again.
I must point out that we were always reluctant to sell our bud, mainly because we didn't want to run out ourselves, so we have never and totally disagree with any form of drug pushing. We will only ever supply a demand, and would never even offer anyone anything unless they asked.
Recently the UK market was flooded with what a lot of our clients called "magic carpet weed" this is cannabis covered, dipped, or coated in some sort of sand, crushed glass or silica. This not only makes it 100% heavier, so smaller bags, but gets grit in your teeth and I seriously doubt it does your lungs any good! So with a caravan full of sweet, pure, home-grown Chronic we became busier and busier. Soon we had to extend the grow, just to harvest enough to keep our regulars and us from having to smoke the coated crap.
Everything was going well, we were providing a great service to the local community and the only downside we caused to anyone was the fact that our clients weren't spending their money on Taxed commodities, although we paid tax on all the equipment and on anything we spent the cash on, so it came back to the tax man in the end.
So Tuesday afternoon my heart sank when I got a message from the caravan owner telling me to call everyone involved and tell them to steer clear for a while, there's been a raid. After a few days of panic, some meetings with solicitors and barristers we seem to be in the clear, except the owner of the caravan who's facing a suspended sentence, community service or a fine.
So, in this wonderful, fair, democratic society we live in, please can someone explain how a group of friends in the countryside producing and supplying high quality, locally grown, highly demanded produce at a fair price. To people who have been paying over the odds for substandard goods for years, can be attacked and criminalized by the authorities when there are thousands of people out there, just like my uncle who are completely destroying other peoples companies and lives to benefit their own. They lie, steal and cheat all the way and look down on us because our recreational habits happen to be illegal.
It makes me sick to think of how much of my own legitimate earnings, spending, inheritance, fuel money, cigarette sales, hell 17.5% of everything on top of that go into this crooked, backwards country to pay the wages of false, immoral law imposing authorities.
******RANT OVER******
User Reviews
Submitted by matnotharry (user info) at 2008-05-20 13:03:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sexy Choc where abouts do you live in the UK? This guy is based in the midlands...
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-03-21 13:47:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:50:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:43:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Whoa! How did we get here from a weed bust! Jebus.
Yeah, we choosed to walk some serious lanes....
Great post, and some serious reviews. Really liked this one.
If Uber had 3 million users, we might have started a revolution..
Cuba libre! Cheers!
Submitted by no1hasdis (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:43:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:17:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
you are maufacturing and dealing drugs.
one of your friends got a slap on a wrist.
In many parts of the US you wouuld have a life sentence and all your lives would be ruined.
I think the UK is doing a pretty liberal job despite hysterical press.
No -2 because this is well written but I think you need to get some perspective.
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Summed up perfectly. Although I do understand your frustration on the injustice of ignoring business shysters, who are basically nothing more then common thieves manipulating corporate law for their benefit at the expense of others, while investing enforcement resources are tracking down small fry trying to grow a little weed. What areas your uncle from?
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:43:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:33:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sorry but once you never have to worry about food, clothing, shelter, and medicine I would guess more than half of the population would turn into alcoholic, jobless bums.
I know I would.
If I make the same as some guy serving fries at McDonalds you are fucking out of your mind if you think I am going to work hard, be on time, or even fucking try.
Capatilism isn't perfect, pure capatilism isn't fair, but I (and the world) have yet to see a sytem that is better at rewarding hard work and giving people an opportunity to succeed.
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Appreciate the comment indioninja. I don't have all the answers, as I say, I'd like to see a more communist way of life, not like the old soviet communism, but a long way from the current state of affairs.
A good start would simply be to nationalise the big corporations and stop them from siphening (*sp) off so many funds and to put the huge amount of assets they own back into the public domain.
It's the opportunities for people to take advantage of other people that ruins todays society. I'd be more than happy with any system that allows everyone the same opportunities, an even playing field for all, and stopped the major problem of such huge wealth disparity.
Whoa! How did we get here from a weed bust! Jebus.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:36:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:17:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
you are maufacturing and dealing drugs.
one of your friends got a slap on a wrist.
In many parts of the US you wouuld have a life sentence and all your lives would be ruined.
I think the UK is doing a pretty liberal job despite hysterical press.
No -2 because this is well written but I think you need to get some perspective.
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Thanks for not -2ing me Apollo, appreciate it.
I fully understand that we all got away a lot easier than we would've in a number of other places. We're very happy about the slap on the wrist!
My point is just that they put so much effort into stopping us from growing bud (they're currently following 3 of us, and all of our phones are acting funny) when there are people easily getting away with much more damaging crimes.
If we lived somewhere with such a high penalty, we'd not have been growing.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:33:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sorry but once you never have to worry about food, clothing, shelter, and medicine I would guess more than half of the population would turn into alcoholic, jobless bums.
I know I would.
If I make the same as some guy serving fries at McDonalds you are fucking out of your mind if you think I am going to work hard, be on time, or even fucking try.
Capatilism isn't perfect, pure capatilism isn't fair, but I (and the world) have yet to see a sytem that is better at rewarding hard work and giving people an opportunity to succeed.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-03-21 12:27:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Recently the UK market was flooded with what a lot of our clients called "magic carpet weed" this is cannabis covered, dipped, or coated in some sort of sand, crushed glass or silica.
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there's an invention called a bong, you should check it out
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:27:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I wish i had that inspiration, when it comes down to write my own posts!
also :
Look, I think we're all getting hung up on minor details here, once the base values have been established these would be worked out by the most knowledgable (impartial) people in line with these ethical, moral values. The most important things are that everyone would earn the same, have the same quality of life, be able to save in one aspect of life to spend in another, and the removal of the corporate rapist.
These are proper words aswell. Every man,woman and child shouldn't be needy of food,clothing,housing,basic medical care. This comprises only a marginal piece of a percentage of
every country's budget. And still we don't seem to able to achieve that, even not
with all our technology, sophisticated agriculture method's, andsoforth...
If i were in control, that's where it should start : A solid base.
99% would be very happy with just that. I gladly turn in my tv and the net for that.
But that's me. I've tasted the acidious taste of capitalism, and rejected it.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:17:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
you are maufacturing and dealing drugs.
one of your friends got a slap on a wrist.
In many parts of the US you wouuld have a life sentence and all your lives would be ruined.
I think the UK is doing a pretty liberal job despite hysterical press.
No -2 because this is well written but I think you need to get some perspective.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:10:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Love this comment....
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:03:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
A good line i picked up recently : The greatest disaster ever happened to democracy is capitalism... And i agree.
As long as we don't distance ourselves from that, no chance we're gonna make the next century.
Capitalism is a dry spunge, that will never get wet. Will capitalism rebuild a country after a war ? NO... It only finances it. Driving the population into a covered-up slavery...
Will capitalism feed hungry stomachs? No, you cannot survive on your dollars/euro's or zloty's, if there's no bread for sale...
Will capitalism solve the serious problems ? NO, the stockholders will not agree, for it doesn't yield enough (empty) profit...
To state it simply : Capitalism is slavery.
It's only use seems to be outcalculating the human factor, which it's supposed to serve...
Democracy is running an already lost marathon, and almost out of breath...
What kinda world is this, if we cannot grown our lively needs on our own soil?
(Jesus, i didn't want to rant....didn't work out.)
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:06:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What is the difference between on-line voting and voting with dollars?
I don't think you appreciate how expensive that system of surveys would be.
As far as that being your new job where would you get the other people to work there? WOuld they suddenly get a slip to stop appearing at Natl's Food Service Komplex #223391 and report instead to Rekreational Drinking center #5679367. How about the marketing for the new bar, woud ti be state sponsored advertising? Would you have state approved add campaigned (if they are paying for it, ti would have to be).
This sounds like a nightmare of beuracracy, and since people arent motiviated by money it would also be incredably inefficient.
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Online voting - Everyone has the same number of votes
Voting with dollars (or pounds) - 3% have far too much money / votes, 70% has an average amount of money / votes, and the rest don't have enough money to spend on votes!
If the state had all of the funds that are being pumped into corporate CEO's pockets they could easily afford a nationwide online voting system.
In regards to the employees, there will obviously need to ba system in place. Without researching and looking into I can't say what the best sytem would be for choosing peoples jobs. We currently work on the basis of doing whatever job you want / you are qualified for. I'd imagine that would stay, to an extent. Without the lure of more money from more profitable companies employees would be happy to stay in any job they enjoyed.
I admit, at first there would be people working jobs they didn't like, again all it would take is a jobswap system, or an employment system to handle this.
Look, I think we're all getting hung up on minor details here, once the base values have been established these would be worked out by the most knowledgable (impartial) people in line with these ethical, moral values. The most important things are that everyone would earn the same, have the same quality of life, be able to save in one aspect of life to spend in another, and the removal of the corporate rapist.
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 11:03:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
A good line i picked up recently : The greatest disaster ever happened to democracy is capitalism... And i agree.
As long as we don't distance ourselves from that, no chance we're gonna make the next century.
Capitalism is a dry spunge, that will never get wet. Will capitalism rebuild a country after a war ? NO... It only finances it. Driving the population into a covered-up slavery...
Will capitalism feed hungry stomachs? No, you cannot survive on your dollars/euro's or zloty's, if there's no bread for sale...
Will capitalism solve the serious problems ? NO, the stockholders will not agree, for it doesn't yield enough (empty) profit...
To state it simply : Capitalism is slavery.
It's only use seems to be outcalculating the human factor, which it's supposed to serve...
Democracy is running an already lost marathon, and almost out of breath...
What kinda world is this, if we cannot grown our lively needs on our own soil?
(Jesus, i didn't want to rant....didn't work out.)
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:51:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:45:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
eh, I like it here but then I'm not a lawbreaking scoundrel.
Just kidding.
I AM a law breaking scoundrel.
Just think of all the other crappy coutries you could have been born in, I reckon we get off light over here.
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In the world we live in it's hard not to be a lawbreaker!
you're right, it could have been soooooo much worse.
But it also could have not been a problem in the first place!
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:48:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
So in order to keep people from aspiring to be a top man and maybe hurting their feelings you want to make it impossible for everyone?
You don't think that just because people can't make millions in a business that they still won't aspire to be famous in sports, acting, music, writing etc?
I am afraid you are mistaken if you think "keeping up with the jones" or the desire to have things is somehow new to the far east, or any society from the most primitive tot he most advanced.
Sorry but unless I misunderstand it, your future is a nightmare of oppression. People should be free to fail and free to succeed. If I can't open a business that can make money or grow how will I bring new things to people. And i just don't mean the newest phone that takes great video. I mean everything from music to food that people won't be able to share because they can't be given the means to roduce it.
The market may give us shit like McDonalds and MTV but it also give us small record labels, the little indian place with authentic food, the guy who only sells gourmet sandwiches and non-macro brew beer. You put all the money and business power in the hands of the state and you will crush every single new or different business that could happen from ever occurring.
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It's not "being the top man" that is the problem, it's how we define "top man" It most definitely shouldn't be the one with the most money! It should be the one with the most public respect in terms of the values I spoke about earlier.
Even still there would be no financial gain to being this "top man" just the personal knowledge that you yourself are a good, honourable respected person, and for the right reasons!
The small business would stil be around, all it take is aIndian guy who cooks great food to apply to start up a resteraunt and for his local neighbours to be happy about that. Then he could work in his resteraunt without the worry of it not paying his wages or going bust. The business's would still be run by the people, just the financial risk would be on the state.
I think with this system there would be a lot more small niche business's as people would be opening companies based on what they want to do, rather than what will make the most money. Not to mention the biggest improvement, there being no need to cut production corners in order to bump up profits, and line the bosses pockets.
Foreign trade is another aspect of the neocommunism plan, the state would trade as a whole with foreign nations, (until the global unity) supplying them with all of the newly created products and services through the state funded system. The state owns the good, so they would sell them abroad (within reason, obviously only to a sustainable extent) the capital gained from these sales would go straight back into the state and be pumped back into new and existing business's.
Don't get caught up in previous communism models, neocommunism would only take the working and beneficial parts of communism and adapt them to make todays capitalist world an even playing field. When setting up the system the previous incarnations of communsim would be analysed and stripped apart, removing all of the negative aspects and tailoring it to our 21st Centuty requirements.
Submitted by The_taste_of_Monkeys (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:45:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
eh, I like it here but then I'm not a lawbreaking scoundrel.
Just kidding.
I AM a law breaking scoundrel.
Just think of all the other crappy coutries you could have been born in, I reckon we get off light over here.
Submitted by UberSavedMyLife (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:43:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I was really bothered by the recent conviction of a multiple sclerosis sufferer somewhere in the South of England for manufactering cannabis chocolate to sell to other MS sufferers. It was hardly like the woman and her husband were doing it on a massive scale, and it was being offered as a medication and not a recreational drug. And yes i thought the judge made the right decision by giving her a suspended sentence on the basis that he HAD to give her some kind of sentence as the jury had found her guilty. However i think that if the government would regulate cannabis as a medication for those who need it, to provide them with a quality of life, then people like this woman wouldn't be punished for trying to make herself more comfortable and offering the same comfort to other people in her position, why should she have to live in constant pain purely because the government can't see beyond up their own arses for long enough to use their common sense and legalise the use of cannabis as a medication and provide it on the NHS. (in my perfect world it would be legalised for recreational use too, but as pointed out in a review below, too many grey areas for that to ever happen)
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:35:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Music concerts would be paid for by the state, and arranged by the non-profit state music committee, which in turn would have been told what the people want to see through the online voting and other methods. Then concerts would be free (or perhaps credit based, see old comments) for everyone.
Again, resteraunts, clubs and bars, would be opened by the state. Say you wanted to open a bar, you'd apply to the state, they would put out a public survey in the area. If enough people are happy with the idea, you can open your bar. Funded by the state, supplying free drinks to customers (or again on a credit basis), and your new job is running your bar, and you receive your credits for that.
The main point is that no-one actually owns large amounts of assets. There are no corporate CEO's earning millions a year and this new "lower working class" (new problem in the UK, people working but earning less than if they were on benifits) is no more, because anyone working receives the same amount of credits. Anyone not working is looked after by the state employment policy until a job is available, ie. they can have your old job once you start running your new bar!
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What is the difference between on-line voting and voting with dollars?
I don't think you appreciate how expensive that system of surveys would be.
As far as that being your new job where would you get the other people to work there? WOuld they suddenly get a slip to stop appearing at Natl's Food Service Komplex #223391 and report instead to Rekreational Drinking center #5679367. How about the marketing for the new bar, woud ti be state sponsored advertising? Would you have state approved add campaigned (if they are paying for it, ti would have to be).
This sounds like a nightmare of beuracracy, and since people arent motiviated by money it would also be incredably inefficient.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:29:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If we are going to select "moderates" why not just have a theocracy, or monarchy.
If this system you refer to is "neocommunism" I would still love to know how new restaurants, clubs or bars will be opened.
what about music and concerts? Would the state decide what music willbe made. Granted MTV just following money blows but anything that would have to be decided or approved by the state would be infinately worse.
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Music is a main point of my theory. The music industry at preset is saturated with corporate designed, non artistic, standard music. This is beacuse that's what will sell the most. This means all of the amazing artists out there who don't fit in with the standard requirement are being overlooked.
Music should be free. People should make music to express themselves and be happy that people want to listen to it. Art is not a career, it's expression, and should not fall victim to these money grabbing record companies who choose what we do and don't get to listen to. I would be more than happy to pay an artist direct for the cost of producing the MP3 that I (currently illegaly) download, but I refuse to pay £15 to a record company for a CD, in the knowledge that only a tiny % of that is going to the people who deserve it!
Music concerts would be paid for by the state, and arranged by the non-profit state music committee, which in turn would have been told what the people want to see through the online voting and other methods. Then concerts would be free (or perhaps credit based, see old comments) for everyone.
Again, resteraunts, clubs and bars, would be opened by the state. Say you wanted to open a bar, you'd apply to the state, they would put out a public survey in the area. If enough people are happy with the idea, you can open your bar. Funded by the state, supplying free drinks to customers (or again on a credit basis), and your new job is running your bar, and you receive your credits for that.
The main point is that no-one actually owns large amounts of assets. There are no corporate CEO's earning millions a year and this new "lower working class" (new problem in the UK, people working but earning less than if they were on benifits) is no more, because anyone working receives the same amount of credits. Anyone not working is looked after by the state employment policy until a job is available, ie. they can have your old job once you start running your new bar!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:27:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:13:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The only reason people need to be better than each other is that they have the wrong values, values inprinted onto them from birth by the capitalist way of life. Taught from a young age that their purpose in life is to be better than everyone else. 99% of people get to a point in their life where they realise they'll never be the "top man" and their dreams are shattered, left to live out life, and wait to die, knowing that everything they've worked for has boiled down to a house a car and some offspring who have to go through it all again.
Look at the far eastern values of honour, pride and tradition. Even though they are now diluted in a westernised world they still shine trhough in the values of the people. I'm not saying the change over would be easy, hell it would be a nightmare, and would take a serious length of time, but well worth it in the end.
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So in order to keep people from aspiring to be a top man and maybe hurting their feelings you want to make it impossible for everyone?
You don't think that just because people can't make millions in a business that they still won't aspire to be famous in sports, acting, music, writing etc?
I am afraid you are mistaken if you think "keeping up with the jones" or the desire to have things is somehow new to the far east, or any society from the most primitive tot he most advanced.
Sorry but unless I misunderstand it, your future is a nightmare of oppression. People should be free to fail and free to succeed. If I can't open a business that can make money or grow how will I bring new things to people. And i just don't mean the newest phone that takes great video. I mean everything from music to food that people won't be able to share because they can't be given the means to roduce it.
The market may give us shit like McDonalds and MTV but it also give us small record labels, the little indian place with authentic food, the guy who only sells gourmet sandwiches and non-macro brew beer. You put all the money and business power in the hands of the state and you will crush every single new or different business that could happen from ever occurring.
Submitted by littledan (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:16:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
It's not the substance or crime that matters. It's like an old lady with cancer is in terrible pain and asks her loving husband to commit euthinasia for her. Is he a criminal? Is she a criminal? Who has the right to criminalise either of them! She wants it done and he's doing it, just like the people we sell to want weed, can get it elsewhere, but it's not as good and costs them more. How can we be criminals for helping them get better value supplies that they wanted and were going to buy anyway?!
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The last part of this argument is flawed. If everyone took this opinion/stance, then there would be no drug dealers. who would they be offering better value than? Someone would still be breaking the law. I do smoke pot, and I think it should be legalized. But it should also be government controlled. The Canadian government said that they could create weed as potent as what we get now, tax it and distribute it, for less than 15$ a gram. Here in NS, its 10$ now, but in other places it's 15-20$. So most of us win. I think that if this happened, in 50 years, all dope would be government run. Think about how many serious bootleggers you know. Yeah, people make beer and moonshine, but they (majority) don't sell near as much product as any low level dealer I know. Government sells booze, we buy, everything's gravy. Should be same for pot/hash.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:13:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Can' believe my "how shit it is that weed growers are seen as more of a threat to society than conmen" post turned into a Sociological debate!
The only reason people need to be better than each other is that they have the wrong values, values inprinted onto them from birth by the capitalist way of life. Taught from a young age that their purpose in life is to be better than everyone else. 99% of people get to a point in their life where they realise they'll never be the "top man" and their dreams are shattered, left to live out life, and wait to die, knowing that everything they've worked for has boiled down to a house a car and some offspring who have to go through it all again.
Look at the far eastern values of honour, pride and tradition. Even though they are now diluted in a westernised world they still shine trhough in the values of the people. I'm not saying the change over would be easy, hell it would be a nightmare, and would take a serious length of time, but well worth it in the end.
Could pave the way for a globally united world free of the false values and beliefs created by greed, self obsession and religion. I want to live in a world where we all aspire to being good, honest, hounourable people and can reach the end of our life happy in the knowledge that we achieved our aims.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 10:06:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:39:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This system coupled with modern technology, online voting for any major decisions the state has to make, and a carefully selected group of "moderators" with very limited power really would make for a better world.
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If we are going to select "moderates" why not just have a theocracy, or monarchy.
If this system you refer to is "neocommunism" I would still love to know how new restaurants, clubs or bars will be opened.
what about music and concerts? Would the state decide what music willbe made. Granted MTV just following money blows but anything that would have to be decided or approved by the state would be infinately worse.
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:39:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This system coupled with modern technology, online voting for any major decisions the state has to make, and a carefully selected group of "moderators" with very limited power really would make for a better world.
If we all had the corruption-gene removed, communism would take humanity into the 3th millenium, within the decade. But, by god, we are, and will be animals, untill we surpass our own limitations.
Take me to your healer...Ehhh, dealer, that is...
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:37:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You shouldn't be suprised, but that doesn't mean it isn't bullshit .
People will never be equal, because people don't want to be equal. They want to be better than each other. If everything that demarked status in this society was leveled, people would still be clambering for a way to be on top. Plus, there will always be haves and have-nots, because there will always be those people that are willing to twist the rules in order to get what they feel they deserve (whether they deserve it or not). You and your friends did that yourself when you felt you deserved a good buzz. In your society someone would think they deserve a better coat, or a better house, etc.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:35:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Sexualchocolate,
Neocommunism would never in a million years work. Simply because people wouldn't work. there is no way in hell you would ever get me to bust my ass unless I would get paid more.
Plus how would startups work?
What if I made great sandwiches and wanted to open a store, how could I get capitol?
If people paid me wiht their "credits" and my store did well wouldn't I have more credits than those around me?
I just re-read your idea, acccording to it I wouldn't even be allowed to take those credits, so I couldn't have my own store? this is getting worse and worse. No ma and pa stores, instead of starbucks on every corner it would be state coffee store. I can't think of a more miserable bland stifiling way of life.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:27:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:00:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's not the substance or crime that matters. It's like an old lady with cancer is in terrible pain and asks her loving husband to commit euthinasia for her. Is he a criminal? Is she a criminal? Who has the right to criminalise either of them! She wants it done and he's doing it, just like the people we sell to want weed, can get it elsewhere, but it's not as good and costs them more. How can we be criminals for helping them get better value supplies that they wanted and were going to buy anyway?!
-----------------------
It depends on how much pain the lady has. Maybe it is curable, maybe the pain isn't that much, maybe she was on medication when she asked and would have thought differently when she was off of it. There are a lot of grey areas that would help me personally decide if it is right.
I agree with you on weed, but what if you were selling crack?
Would you have a problem with someone selling it to your kid?
Now I realize that weed and crack are on completely different levels, and selling to an adult and a kid are different, but they are all shades of the same thing, and society has to draw a line somewhere. I just don't think drugs is one of the things you should expect praise for standing up to the man for, but that is just my opinion.
Submitted by Danger_Ranger (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:19:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
kracka is a cannabis - swear to god. If you've seen Patrick Viera you'll know what I mean, except it's head shrinking - it all happens in the same cooking pot. same thing call a spade a spade. bad form kracka - you nasty weirdo.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:16:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
What about child sex workers? We could regulate the industry with a strict "no penetration" policy.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:11:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i firmly believe most vices should be legalized for sake of tax revenue and quality control. prostitution and all illegal drugs would bring in loads of money plus there'd be no things like "carpet weed" and cutting with (more) poisonous chemicals. plus mandatory std tests for hookers and living wages and benefits for a seriously dangerous career choice otherwise.
people are people, they'll do this crap anyway.
Submitted by Kurfsec (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:08:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I love cannibas. :]
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:06:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well the original communist model of the soviets did allow for the dissoloution of power and the function of democratic parliament in communism is possible.
The problem though is that some people are more equal than others. There's the needy that need more care, more resources. There's brilliant pioneer and idealist who galvanises the people for the good of the nation. Plus there's the question of how do you calculate the value of a service?
Free trade in the 21st century, where technology allows even the smallest business to erupt into an international presence in a matter of months, nesccesitates capitalism. Surely the only way to escape that is with a planned economic model which means putting more power into the hands of the govenrment?
I guess you could break everything up into regional soviets but... I dunno...
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:01:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't really care, but it is bullshit.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 09:00:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Part of being in a society is accepting that societies rules. Their law trumps your moral judgement. If you don't like it fight to change it, leave, but don't cry when you ignore it and it bites you in the ass.
I mean you say the things you do don't affect anyone, but you were selling weed right? Now as I said before I think it should be legal, but most of your society doesn't agree. Would you think it is ok for you to sell heroin, or crack?
Everybody draws the line in the sand somewhere on what is too "dangerous" or what shouldn't be allowed. I don't think you have any right to be protected or moral high ground when you cross that line especially when it is something as arbitrary as which drugs you think should be allowed (it would be a different story if you were fighting some type of discrimination).
------------------------------------
It's not the substance or crime that matters. It's like an old lady with cancer is in terrible pain and asks her loving husband to commit euthinasia for her. Is he a criminal? Is she a criminal? Who has the right to criminalise either of them! She wants it done and he's doing it, just like the people we sell to want weed, can get it elsewhere, but it's not as good and costs them more. How can we be criminals for helping them get better value supplies that they wanted and were going to buy anyway?!
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:56:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:33:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Granted Berty. At the end of the day there will always be someone who doesn't find something unfair.
I find lots unfair and whinge all the time; mind you I am English so I have the special Whinge Gene inherited.
------------------------------------
Executing my British right to whinge!
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:48:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:31:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fair enough Drogo 'n' Choco. What's your alternative society?
----------
Uh oh, here's where the yanks dissapear.
My alternative society, wait for it.....
Neocommunism!
Communism (stalinist) was hardcore, brutal, dishonest and caused major social problems. However it pushed russia forward 250 years in a fraction of that time. It has its uses, as either a catalyst for that kind of progress, or as a final settling solution once a state is fully established.
Neocommunism would take the basic principals of communism, everyone equal (and not the bullshit capitalist equal we have now) The state would support everyone, and everyone would support the state. The problems with old communism were the brutality, the power of the leader, and the lack of lifestyle options. We could keep the absolute equality, there could easily be all the products and services that are currently provided, simply porvided on a credits basis. Everyone gets the same credits / funds to spend on what they like, or to save for more expensive things. Most important part is that major corporations would be nationalised and the opportunity for one person, company, organization to take funds / credits / money / anything from another person would be eliminated. This would remove the current disparity we have between the rich and the poor.
Then the justice system, as I say, needs to based on the actual damage to society the crimes can, do, or would create. Not on petty, ancient rules and regulations.
This system coupled with modern technology, online voting for any major decisions the state has to make, and a carefully selected group of "moderators" with very limited power really would make for a better world.
Here it comes.........
They're going to go crazy.......
He's a bloody Commie!
So yeah, that's my neocommunism in as few words as possible!
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:46:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well good.
For a horrid moment I thought you were going to start banging the anarchy drum.
IT IS A DRUM OF LIES!
You know I would like to see more legalised brothels though. It'd be a nice alternative for young ladies visiting the country to becoming an au pair.
Where does one draw the line though? Should we relax laws on bestiality? Should we allow couples consisting of man and beast to adopt? What are the implications with regards to foot and mouth, birdflu and scrapees?
I guess good old wossname was right in that you can please all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but never all of the people all the time.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:44:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:16:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What i think is stupid is people forgoing their moral judgement and not doing something that makes themselves and everyone around them happy, just because someone decided 75 years ago that they didn't want it done.
I'm all about moral choices, treating people how I'd like to be treated and not missing out on things I want to do which don't effect anyone else in a negative way, specially not because a government I don't agree with and didn't vote for says so.
In order for law to be just, it needs to be fair, ethical, and moral. Not punish people for not "sticking to the rules" it should be judged on how your "crime" effects other members of the society.
This all began with guerilla promotion of cotton crops many years ago. fuckin' capitalists!
---------------------------------
Part of being in a society is accepting that societies rules. Their law trumps your moral judgement. If you don't like it fight to change it, leave, but don't cry when you ignore it and it bites you in the ass.
I mean you say the things you do don't affect anyone, but you were selling weed right? Now as I said before I think it should be legal, but most of your society doesn't agree. Would you think it is ok for you to sell heroin, or crack?
Everybody draws the line in the sand somewhere on what is too "dangerous" or what shouldn't be allowed. I don't think you have any right to be protected or moral high ground when you cross that line especially when it is something as arbitrary as which drugs you think should be allowed (it would be a different story if you were fighting some type of discrimination).
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:33:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Granted Berty. At the end of the day there will always be someone who doesn't find something unfair.
I find lots unfair and whinge all the time; mind you I am English so I have the special Whinge Gene inherited.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:31:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I live on the other side of the small pond, The Netherlands, were it's on the positive side of the law, currently. It's not 100% legal, but hardly anybody is caught/convicted. Only really big guys and fraudulent growers (who steal electricity/fuck up their surroundings), will get caught. And mostly it's disturbance they coincidentally create, that takes them out of bussines. If you're a clean operator, everything you need is for sale on the corner,postorder etc. Selling your stuff in quantity, is the only bottleneck, since you're assumed to be a dealer then. (above 250 grams)
Heck, we even have a profesional market in that shit, and there are OFFICIAL growers of weed, for the pharmacy's deliver the stuff on medical prescription .(really, no kidding!)
Legally, it's not a 100%, but if we went 1 step further, it would be on the supermarket's shelves..
You can also buy the shit, on just about every corner, in any city of some size...
I guess you would enjoy yourself here ! C YA!
--------------------------------
I've actually had to spend my Amsterdam holiday savings on bud now that I can't just take it from a box of homegrown! Gutted! Was hoping to head over in about 3 weeks, but going to wait till this has all been to court etc.
Never been before, suppose immigration is easy now it's all Europe. I'll have to get over there and check it out. Growing and smoking is pretty much my life (alongside my woman, and smoking with my woman), so from what I've heard I'd fit in nicely.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:31:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Fair enough Drogo 'n' Choco. What's your alternative society?
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:23:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:08:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sadly we don't live in a wonderful, fair, democratic society; it doesn't exist anywhere. When an old lady gets sent to court for growing some weed for the relief of her MS syptoms it proves the coutry is fucked.
It sucks and I disagree with the laws regarding Cannabis but they are there; and until the powers that be wake up and concentrate on more important crimes, you will be fucked if you grow it.
-------------------------
The one downside of smoking, I was outraged by this, yet I totally forgot about it while writing this post!
FREE GRANNABIS!!!!
This country really sickens me. You know, the judge didn't allow the jury at her trial to even take into account that she used it for medical use! How on earth is that justice without taking into account such an important factor!
bllllluuuurrrggghhhhhh, literally just threw up. I'm moving to the dam.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:23:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Now steady on there Drogo. Just because the current status quo doesn't allow you to do everything you want to do does not mean it isn't 'fair', it just means it doesn't follow your own opinion.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:16:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I never said I though the law was right.
I think it is stupid for you to have knowingly broken the law and only be appauled by it when your firend was dumb enough to get caught.
-----------------------
What i think is stupid is people forgoing their moral judgement and not doing something that makes themselves and everyone around them happy, just because someone decided 75 years ago that they didn't want it done.
I'm all about moral choices, treating people how I'd like to be treated and not missing out on things I want to do which don't effect anyone else in a negative way, specially not because a government I don't agree with and didn't vote for says so.
In order for law to be just, it needs to be fair, ethical, and moral. Not punish people for not "sticking to the rules" it should be judged on how your "crime" effects other members of the society.
This all began with guerilla promotion of cotton crops many years ago. fuckin' capitalists!
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:12:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
drug laws are kinda stupid really.
Submitted by CHR15 (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:09:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think it was because of the trouble we were causing there. They said they would fine or jail British users in Amsterdam, presumably in an attempt to stop us going there.
Anyway, thanks dude, I'll look out for your answer.
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:08:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Sadly we don't live in a wonderful, fair, democratic society; it doesn't exist anywhere. When an old lady gets sent to court for growing some weed for the relief of her MS syptoms it proves the coutry is fucked.
It sucks and I disagree with the laws regarding Cannabis but they are there; and until the powers that be wake up and concentrate on more important crimes, you will be fucked if you grow it.
Submitted by sicosemen (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:06:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Checking my watch, I can see that I don't care.
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:06:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by CHR15 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:59:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hey rorrim, I saw something on the news a while ago, the authorities in Amsterdam were going to ban British holidaymakers from smoking green out there. Is that true?
I haven't heard of that....yet. I'll check it out, though. The English, like the Irish and Germans (and frankly: the rest of the world), are a somewhat 'enthousiastic', when they visit our capital city. Maybe that's why they want to put a limit on the use. Also, if you're a first-time user, it can be quite a bang...
Weed has become a serious drug...Takes a brain to utilize it the proper way !
Since i was a little busy moving and remixing some stuff, i haven't read many papers lately. I'll ask my 'boekenwurm', if she's come across that !
I'll let you know ! Greetz...
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 08:00:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:34:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Not surprised! Appauled, disgusted, dissapointed.
-----
Looks like we've got a lemming here, in the words of Trevor (made in Britain) - "swallowed the bollocks he's been handed"
------------------------------------------
I never said I though the law was right.
I think it is stupid for you to have knowingly broken the law and only be appauled by it when your firend was dumb enough to get caught.
Submitted by CHR15 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:59:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hey rorrim, I saw something on the news a while ago, the authorities in Amsterdam were going to ban British holidaymakers from smoking green out there. Is that true?
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:55:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:31:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:11:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Were you living on my island, you would be a fucking millionaire, and VERY appreciated member of society... Life is different, whereever you're performing it...
I actualy know the breed 'Chronic'. Nice cannabis...
----------------------------------
Where is this Island!? How can I get there!
Seriously, Dan.at.rabots.com, let me know.
I live on the other side of the small pond, The Netherlands, were it's on the positive side of the law, currently. It's not 100% legal, but hardly anybody is caught/convicted. Only really big guys and fraudulent growers (who steal electricity/fuck up their surroundings), will get caught. And mostly it's disturbance they coincidentally create, that takes them out of bussines. If you're a clean operator, everything you need is for sale on the corner,postorder etc. Selling your stuff in quantity, is the only bottleneck, since you're assumed to be a dealer then. (above 250 grams)
Heck, we even have a profesional market in that shit, and there are OFFICIAL growers of weed, for the pharmacy's deliver the stuff on medical prescription .(really, no kidding!)
Legally, it's not a 100%, but if we went 1 step further, it would be on the supermarket's shelves..
You can also buy the shit, on just about every corner, in any city of some size...
I guess you would enjoy yourself here ! C YA!
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:49:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:41:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
depends on where you are at and how much weed you have berty for the trafficking charge.
you need to possess 100lbs of the sticky icky to get that here in Nevada.
----------------------------
There were times we had enough around for trafficking here in the UK, but luckily there was nothing but equipment, tiny cuttings, dead leaves, scales and baggies around. Trying to fight the supply charge being as though there was no smokable bud around at all. Super lucky timing.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:48:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Well I dunno about that. I mean we all break the law a bit, that's why it's important to have it a little bit loose. Babies, bathwater and so on. Feel free to carry on your path to being a full on burnout.
Submitted by rad1101 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:41:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
depends on where you are at and how much weed you have berty for the trafficking charge.
you need to possess 100lbs of the sticky icky to get that here in Nevada.
Submitted by sicosemen (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:38:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No Comment
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:34:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:27:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Your friend was growing and selling pot out of his van, and you ar esuprised he was arrested?
--------------------------------
Not surprised! Appauled, disgusted, dissapointed.
-----
Looks like we've got a lemming here, in the words of Trevor (made in Britain) - "swallowed the bollocks he's been handed"
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:31:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:11:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Were you living on my island, you would be a fucking millionaire, and VERY appreciated member of society... Life is different, whereever you're performing it...
I actualy know the breed 'Chronic'. Nice cannabis...
----------------------------------
Where is this Island!? How can I get there!
Seriously, Dan.at.rabots.com, let me know.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:29:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Good point Berty, thanks.
I mean, we are the quality control part of it, being as though we will have always smoked plenty of the bud before we sell any, our clients will have normally had a decent tester smoke with us also, but I see your point.
We've taken this as a turning point and have all decided that we smoke far too much and we need to cut right down. Specially now were paying shady street dealers for shitty bud!
It was nice while it lasted, and we are definately lucky to get away with what we did (they raided us at the perfect time in the cycle, no stock left, 65 tiny cuttings, no big plants) and we're happy about that. It just angers me to think of the things people get away with and the effort the police put into petty, essentially victimless crimes like ours.
With our new, regularly non-stoned outlook on life we've all been joining legalisation groups and the likes, but I'm sure that we'll be getting much more into this side of the situation now.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:27:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Your friend was growing and selling pot out of his van, and you ar esuprised he was arrested?
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:23:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.gmi-mr.com/gmipoll/release.php?p=20060221
How can you complain?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:17:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Okay. Lets try a counter example.
Lets say I brew my own beer. I brew it in my shed in the garden because I loathe conventional beer and my friends come round to drink it also. By word of mouth the news of Berty's Brew gets around and I get requests and orders. Eventually a Wetherspoons opens in the village I live in and all of a sudden I am inundated with orders for nice beer, so I buy another shed and a few more demi johns and get my own little brewery going.
Where's the harm in that you ask?
Well I'm not working a proper regulated company. Those regulations are there for a purpose, not just for tax but also to protect customers and the companies themselves. All manner of things could happen; a shyster bastard like your uncle could claim my unregulated product made him ill and get me done for poisoning him for example, plus quite unbeknownest to me one of my batch's could be contaminated and put the health of a number of people at risk because I don't have any quality control processes and so on and so on.
Those are the problems one can run into with an unregulated business, be it legal or otherwise. So that's why the law has stopped you.
Now consider this. Your friend, the caravan owner, has essentially been picked up for drug trafficing. In America he would be sent down for 10 years. In other countries where the law is meant to be absoloubt, China for instance, then the penalty would be far worse. The point is that we have relativly relaxed laws as it is in this country because we like to harbour doubts about whether a thing is truly bad or not, or whether or not a person is truly guilty. We understand that absouloubt rule of law generally does more harm than good.
My advice is to chillax a bit. This sort of thing could happen with a simple crop failiure, an infestation of greenfly for instance. Find a new location and start up again. Continue to lobby your local MP, but really if you're genuinly determined to change the law then you have to take a direct role in government.
Submitted by pen_name (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:16:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
why do people post so many burning flags?
Submitted by mr-bee (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:12:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Its shit situation, but you answered your own question. It's a drug and it's illegal. Until the law gets changed, it's the ways it's going to be.
Submitted by rorrim (user info) at 2007-03-21 07:11:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Were you living on my island, you would be a fucking millionaire, and VERY appreciated member of society... Life is different, whereever you're performing it...
I actualy know the breed 'Chronic'. Nice cannabis...