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SCOURGE IS ALSO FAT
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The Invisible Elephant

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 09:59:15 EDT
Rating: 1.37 on 83 ratings (83 reviews) (Review this item) (V)

Over the past few weeks, my sense of hope for our economy and country has been continuing on the same downward spiral that it’s been on for the past few years or so, but what’s different from a few months ago is the increasing rate at which businesses are closing their doors, and the attitudes of the people I interact with.

I work in marketing and sales, in a manufacturing business that sells direct to the customer, as well as commissioned sales. Every time one of our commissioned salesmen closes their doors, we must come and pick up their display(s) or face losing the display(s) which start at around $900.00. Needless to say, I pay close attention whenever we lose a vendor.

In the past few weeks, as I said, the rate at which businesses were shutting down has increased significantly. In the past, we saw the usual rise/fall of businesses, and their successes or failures largely depended on the normal business factors, but where we would see 2 or 3 closures per week previously, I’m now seeing up to 7 or 8 closures per week. These are all smaller business, nothing like Home Depot, or Wal-Mart, which will be around long after we’re gone, run by the cockroaches.

As I see these things, and watch our sales drop, and go to the meetings where are goals for the year were gradually downgraded from “increasing our profits” to “turning a profit,” to “keeping everyone employed”, I find myself spending less and less time actually thinking about what I’ll do if we shut down, or where our economy is headed, or what I should do to prepare, and the wide variety of other questions that I really SHOULD be thinking about.

Instead, I find myself trying to distract my attention from the reality in front of us all, in a desperate effort to avoid becoming depressed, which brings me to my second point, the attitudes of the masses.

The sales part of my job has me interacting with a diverse section of our society, everyone from the millionaire mansion owner, to the trailer-trash, to the ghetto-fabulous.

It’s easy to say that people have always been assholes, easy because it’s accurate, but the percentage of people that we deal with who are on edge and more willing to unleash their full phone fury over what previously would have been seen as a trivial matter has jumped from around our standard of 25-35% up to 65% or so.

Neither our products, nor our service has deteriorated. The only change has been the state of our economy, which has yet to hit full force. As the economy weakens, people are losing more and more hope, becoming depressed, anxious, and irritable.

So the thought strikes me, are we entering a new great depression?
If so, where do we go from here?

I’d like to hear what everyone is thinking about this situation, if you’re thinking about it, because while it won’t solve anything, it’ll distract me a bit longer, and maybe even give me some hope or ideas.

PS. Sorry this wasn’t a story about invisible elephants. I’ll write that story next time.


Can you NOT read.bmp
Can you NOT read.bmp


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Submitted by orphelia at 2008-07-16 16:41:14 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

I rather liked your rob berg impression. :)

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-11 21:56:11 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2008-07-11 17:04:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

80 reviews on a MWGs post?? WTF happened here, Monkeys??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I'd never had more than 40 or so before, so I thought to myself, I wonder what it would be like? SO then I just responded to everyone's remarks like I'm doing with yours now instead of doing what I normally do, which is post, and then leave work for the day and not check it again until the next day or so til it was over and done with.

I'll probably go back to that, because I don't like to write about politics and depressing subjects like the state of our economy or how shitty the world is.


Submitted by orphelia at 2008-07-11 17:04:06 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

80 reviews on a MWGs post?? WTF happened here, Monkeys??

Submitted by shadow at 2008-07-11 11:18:35 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

I always heard it as the "Four-hundred pound Gorilla," but I like invisible elephant just as well.

What depression??? There's no depression! The government just gave us all a "thank you" gift for being such good Americans!

breathe in
breathe out
breathe in
breathe out
breathe in
breathe out

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-10 10:01:50 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2008-07-10 06:49:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1

During the 1930s hats were a massive 83% cooler than they are now and gentlemen of all ages were, in spite of the economic conditions, considerably better dressed than they are today. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can certainly agree with that, but you must remember that back then our clothes didn't come from China, and were mostly custom made. You actually went to tailor, and got fitted for your clothes. There was no "one size fits all" crap.

I still to this day haven't been fitted for anything except my wedding tux, which is a veritable shame.

Plus bowler caps are awesome my droogie friend.

Submitted by Berty at 2008-07-10 06:49:23 EDT (#)
Rating: 1

During the 1930s hats were a massive 83% cooler than they are now and gentlemen of all ages were, in spite of the economic conditions, considerably better dressed than they are today.

I say; bring on the reccesion! Let us live in a world where nobody can afford to wear a baseball cap backwards, where we can all leave our doors unlocked because we have nothing to steal! Where we're no longer afraid of muggers, but rather good old fashioned polio!

It will be a golden age of poverty.

Submitted by BranDo at 2008-07-10 06:10:10 EDT (#)
Rating: 1

I'm in the Euro-zone working for a major American company and we too see a lot of customers decreasing their business with us and a negative development in general.

Still I'm a very positive guy, I even have a positve blood-type.


Submitted by TheBrad at 2008-07-09 23:00:55 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

These are all smaller business, nothing like Home Depot, or Wal-Mart, which will be around long after we're gone, run by the cockroaches.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The realitity of capitilism.

Submitted by Sacrilicious at 2008-07-09 19:10:36 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

NEVER tease me about an elephant, invisible or otherwise.

This would be one scenario in which I'd feel fortunate that I have no dependents, and a little bit of money socked away in case of an emergency. But aside from gas prices, I have yet to feel significantly affected. I do work in an industry that could conceivably be impacted by consumers having to tighten the financial belt, but so far so good. There has definitely been news coverage spanning from concern to fear-mongering.

Honestly..sometimes Comedy Central's version of the news is all that keeps me going.

Submitted by FilledwithHate at 2008-07-09 18:42:07 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:58:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

FilledwithHate = chickenshit alter
----------
Alter? Who the fuck am I then?

Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:11:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

Bob = steaming piece of shit

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:18:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

This scare mongering about the economy is total bullshit. --> Like this response

====
OOOOOOH. Burn.
====
Got me there--I guess you are known for your witty banter. Pffft.
-----------------

Here's the deal: we're not in a recession. --> How do you know this? While we did have <1% growth last quarter, barely avoiding the technical definition of recession, this is a lagging indicator, and we could easily be in one now.
====
Key word there is "could". We're not. Swing and a miss.
====
Out of the park, MF, How do you know we are not? Got some proof, besides your crappy new home? For all I know you work in forclosures or repossesions. Sure, someone is always doing well, but statistically, that doesn't mean shite.
====
Expansion of bad credit? Because bleeding-hearts feel that "everyone should own a home" and enacted legislation allowing loosening of credit criteria.
-----------
Specify the legislation, liar. It was in fact the stink of deregulation that conservatives brought in.
-----
Shitty trade policy? Like NAFTA?
-------------

Yes, like NAFTA. Clinton did suck sometimes, especially when he was trying to bury his nose into conservative asshole. At least he balanced a budget, though. But other things, too, like the weakness of Bush with the Chinese currency manipulation. Maybe when he helps open the Olympic games and sucks Chinese dick, he can beg for mercy. Like he did with Saudi Arabia. And failed.

--------------------
Gains going to the "few on top" is how capitalism works. The "few on top" create the jobs that everyday people work. "real wages" is yet another pseudo-socialist term used to play the lower class vs. upper class rhetoric. If you don't like your "real wage" perhaps you should leave your government job, or find a better paying fast food joint.
====

I have never worked for the government; i work in biotech. And the jobs those few on the top are creating are largely overseas. This is not real capitalism, anyway. It is manipulated capitalism, whereas the well off continue to reap the greatest benefit not because of their work or effort, but rather from their control.
---------
I blamed nobody. I merely used an example. I didn't know that Fox News issued talking points. "hardly a reliable source...or even a real news source" is a subjective statement...back it up.
====
"Outfoxed", but movies with big words in them are probably beyond you.
------------------
Media bias is extremely apparent. After six years of "George Bush sucks" being chanted, the people of the nation elected an opposition congress in response. How did that go? Their favorability rating went from the low 20% to single digits. And we're all suffering because of their so-called energy policy coupled with the largest scam ever perpetuated on mankind, global warming.
====
Prove your alleged media bias. That is jus the same propaganda piece made up by Nixon in the 70's that you guys keep claiming. It was bs then, it is bs now. If it is so apparent, prove it! Congress may be unpopular, but that is as much for not standing up to the Worst President in History as anything else. It was unpopular too, during the 2000-2006 period of republican domination, mainly because they are sending us down the river of shit. Let us see how the next election goes, though. The fact is you are getting turned out more and more, and you are just going to love all the hippie liberal faces in Congress starting in 2009!
---------
Contrary to what seems to be the norm, repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. --> So stop doing it, dumbass!

====
You too.
====
Oooh, Burn!!!!
----------------
--> More than kind of weak and it is weak because of the fundamental weakness in the US economy. This "interesting correlation" in the price of oil and US dollar is because oil is dollar denominated in international trading. That is like saying it is wet when it rains. Fucking brilliant observation! It doesn't change the fact that the world knows our money is worthless and is acting on it.
====
No. The world knows that our money is tied to the price of oil and they're acting on it. Our economy is not as weak as you think.
====
The dollar decline is against oil, gold, most commodities, food, other currencies, basically everything. If you think dollar decline is not real, then you have no grip on reality.

--> Your evil plans come out in the end! Well, it aint gonna happen. The Iraqis are asking for a timetable for exit (recent news on CNN and everywhere else, but don't worry, I think Fox might even have reported it). This is great news for those of use who have hated the war for the whole time, but for the imperialists? Well, I guess you do suck at it (just like at everything else).

====
Well, you got me there! Nice use of 'evil'...and 'hate'... Them's good propaganda adjectives, fer shure.
----------------
Saying you hate a war is not the same as hating a person or people. And it is hardly propaganda to hate a war. And you said, "All we have to do is take the oil in Iraq -that we earned- and the economy will correct itself." That is extremist bullshit, evil, not happenning, and dumb. I was just pointing out you revelaed yourself to be the despicable cretin you are.

--------------
Since our economy is so weak, we're in the middle of a credit crisis, the polar ice caps are melting causing polar bears to drown, and we're on the eve of The Even Greater Depression...I bought a new house. I didn't get my cable hooked up yet, so I haven't seen any news in over a week. I sure hope that my cable carrier has Fox News, otherwise I might have to get my information from Comedy Central.
----------
I did not say Depression or polar bears or any of that; that is just you throwing around labels. And who care about your new house?
----------
Asshat.
-----------
Dirty Bunghole

Submitted by PayMeLater at 2008-07-09 17:19:36 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

I have a bomb shelter.

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 15:10:19 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

EI, that doesn't look snug at all. It looks kinda cramped and hot actually.

Bubba. WTFINRAT, but I'm guessing it gets down to where to move. Well, those of us stuck in 30 year mortgages with no hope of selling their homes without taking a very significant loss, or who just don't want to move will be needing bunkers.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 14:58:50 EDT (#)
Rating: 0


Submitted by EmissionImpossible at 2008-07-09 14:58:05 EDT (#)
Rating: 2


Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 14:51:36 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2008-07-09 14:40:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
--------------------------------------------

I'm not doing a post on bunkers, but since you're in the UK, here's one for sale in your country:
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/10/30/240acre-underground-.html

Submitted by EmissionImpossible at 2008-07-09 14:42:10 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

big or bug, take your pick

Submitted by EmissionImpossible at 2008-07-09 14:40:47 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-07-09 19:37:43 BST (#)
Ranking: 0

Co-incidentally, the missus was making a remark the other night about how cool it would be to own a bomb shelter. She said it in a joking manner, but I've been waiting for the opportunity for a few years, so she's getting a big surprise for Christmas.

I don't think we'll get bombed though. Our infrastructure and natural resources are far too valuable to destroy. It's not like we live in the desert or anything.
------------------
Yeah deserts are easy to bomb!

How much would a bomb shelter cost and how bug would it be? Please do a post on it!

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 14:39:07 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

AMERICA, FUCK YEA!!!!

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 14:37:43 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Co-incidentally, the missus was making a remark the other night about how cool it would be to own a bomb shelter. She said it in a joking manner, but I've been waiting for the opportunity for a few years, so she's getting a big surprise for Christmas.

I don't think we'll get bombed though. Our infrastructure and natural resources are far too valuable to destroy. It's not like we live in the desert or anything.

Submitted by The_Drake at 2008-07-09 14:32:13 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Really...it could be anyone. Iran will bomb Israel, then Israel will nuke Iran, then the U.N. will condemn Israel, Israel will become the new target for "bombing innocents", the US will make a woefully Ironic statement denouncing the use of Nucear warheads, and Israel will sneak a nuke into the US and......boom.....or something like that.

Submitted by experima at 2008-07-09 14:27:16 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

invisible elephants, monkeys with guns, where will it all end

Submitted by EmissionImpossible at 2008-07-09 14:27:16 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-07-09 19:22:34 BST (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2008-07-09 14:12:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

I think the worst is yet to come, once we get bombed.
----------------------------------------------------------
By whom do you think?
----------------------------------------------------------
I think you can take your pick. I choose Russia.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 14:27:14 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-07-09 14:22:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2008-07-09 14:12:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

I think the worst is yet to come, once we get bombed.
----------------------------------------------------------
By whom do you think?

===============

Maker's Mark

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 14:22:34 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2008-07-09 14:12:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

I think the worst is yet to come, once we get bombed.
----------------------------------------------------------
By whom do you think?

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 14:19:31 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2008-07-09 14:12:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

I think the worst is yet to come, once we get bombed.
===================================
damn

Submitted by The_Drake at 2008-07-09 14:12:30 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

I think the worst is yet to come, once we get bombed.

Submitted by HurtByTheSun at 2008-07-09 14:02:47 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2008-07-09 18:57:42 BST (#)
Ranking: 2

At least we're not Zimbabwe with 1,000,000% (Actual number) inflation.

=========

S'only 100,000% dude. Still ridiculous though. I think it's funny that people keep calling for 'action against Zimbabwe' or whatever, sadly they've got fuck all to offer the West so nobody really gives a fuck.

Submitted by apollo88 at 2008-07-09 14:02:24 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

the actual cost of oil hasn't changed much, it appears that way because the value of the dollar has slid so much.

same with gold, platinum, silver.

Most commodities.


Submitted by Adamdidit2u at 2008-07-09 13:57:42 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

At least we're not Zimbabwe with 1,000,000% (Actual number) inflation.

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 12:58:25 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

FilledwithHate = chickenshit alter


Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:11:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

Bob = steaming piece of shit


Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:18:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

This scare mongering about the economy is total bullshit. --> Like this response

====
OOOOOOH. Burn.
====

The mainstream news media has spent the past two years yelling that the sky is falling, and throwing the big, scary word 'recession' around.

Here's the deal: we're not in a recession. --> How do you know this? While we did have <1% growth last quarter, barely avoiding the technical definition of recession, this is a lagging indicator, and we could easily be in one now.
====
Key word there is "could". We're not. Swing and a miss.
====

For the past 10 years or so, the economy has been so explosively successful. So successful, that we're not used to anything else. We all start shitting our pants when the economy shows slow, steady growth. --> Successful economy for some, but it was not all that. The seeds for the current shit were being planted; all the growth was short-sighted expansion of bad credit, expansion of massive goverment debt, and shitty trade policy leading to huge deficits. The gains went to a few on the top and real wages didn't grow at all.

====
Expansion of bad credit? Because bleeding-hearts feel that "everyone should own a home" and enacted legislation allowing loosening of credit criteria.

Shitty trade policy? Like NAFTA?

Gains going to the "few on top" is how capitalism works. The "few on top" create the jobs that everyday people work. "real wages" is yet another pseudo-socialist term used to play the lower class vs. upper class rhetoric. If you don't like your "real wage" perhaps you should leave your government job, or find a better paying fast food joint.
====

The stock markets are also quite reactive. All CNN (for example's sake) has to do is over-hype some shortage, or a company's bad quarterly earnings, and the market drops in reaction. Add a few more talking heads proclaiming economic disaster. Then make them all do this for 24 hours a day.

---> Convenient to blame CNN when all your crap are just talking points from Fox News, hardly a reliable source of information or even a real news source at all.

====
I blamed nobody. I merely used an example. I didn't know that Fox News issued talking points. "hardly a reliable source...or even a real news source" is a subjective statement...back it up.
====

It's all political, really. How better to take down an administration, than to scare the ecomony away? The sad thing about it is the collateral damage done to the average guy. --> You experience paranoid delusions, huh? The media is trying to bring down this administration--not the obvious cronyism, corruption, incompetence, stupidity, international embarrassment? The fact is this administration is unpopular because it richly deserves to be; there is no other reason.

====
Media bias is extremely apparent. After six years of "George Bush sucks" being chanted, the people of the nation elected an opposition congress in response. How did that go? Their favorability rating went from the low 20% to single digits. And we're all suffering because of their so-called energy policy coupled with the largest scam ever perpetuated on mankind, global warming.
====

Contrary to what seems to be the norm, repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. --> So stop doing it, dumbass!

====
You too.
====

Granted, the dollar is kind of weak, but if you watch the dollar's value versus the light sweet crude futures prices, you'll see a very interesting correlation. When one goes up, the other goes down, and vice-versa.

--> More than kind of weak and it is weak because of the fundamental weakness in the US economy. This "interesting correlation" in the price of oil and US dollar is because oil is dollar demominated in international trading. That is like saying it is wet when it rains. Fucking brilliant observation! It doesn't change the fact that the world knows our money is worthless and is acting on it.

====
No. The world knows that our money is tied to the price of oil and they're acting on it. Our economy is not as weak as you think.
====

The world likes to call the US imperialists. If that's true, then we're the worst imperialists ever. All we have to do is take the oil in Iraq -that we earned- and the economy will correct itself.

--> Your evil plans come out in the end! Well, it aint gonna happen. The Iraqis are asking for a timetable for exit (recent news on CNN and everywhere else, but don't worry, I think Fox might even have reported it). This is great news for those of use who have hated the war for the whole time, but for the imperialists? Well, I guess you do suck at it (just like at everything else).

====
Well, you got me there! Nice use of 'evil'...and 'hate'... Them's good propaganda adjectives, fer shure.

Since our economy is so weak, we're in the middle of a credit crisis, the polar ice caps are melting causing polar bears to drown, and we're on the eve of The Even Greater Depression...I bought a new house. I didn't get my cable hooked up yet, so I haven't seen any news in over a week. I sure hope that my cable carrier has Fox News, otherwise I might have to get my information from Comedy Central.

Asshat.

Submitted by scourge at 2008-07-09 12:58:12 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

better get shitfuck on the phone to offer you some financial advice, fella.

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 12:42:59 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:37:40 EDT (#)

I have thoughts, but they aren't important. I was listening to NPR yesterday on the drive home, and they were talking about the candidates "programs" to fix the housing crisis. They both seem to agree on a proposal that was put forth yesterday that would enable homeowners to stay in their homes, while basically re-adjusting their mortgage rates.

It should be noted however that the announcer put forth a good question of whether it will be "too little, too late."
==============================
Thats the real worry. Furthermore, as a person that is looking to buy his first house soon, will they (in an attempt to fix the housing crisis) make the criteria so much more difficult such that people like myself may not be able to get a loan...

jesus christ, this conversation is making me want to double up on the jack and cokes tonight.

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 12:37:40 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:32:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Query - Didnt the bullshit housing explosion earlier in the decade (which really was due to the de-regulation of who is an acceptable loaner) cause some faulty numbers as far as our economys growth? I mean we are now experiencing the end result of this monumental mistake. Its better known as the "housing crisis." Being a layman, I would like to know if all those loans, when they were first issued, would give rise to false numbers regarding the strength of our economy? The amount of forclosures at present is staggering, and there seems to be no end in sight, thoughts on the long term results?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have thoughts, but they aren't important. I was listening to NPR yesterday on the drive home, and they were talking about the candidates "programs" to fix the housing crisis. They both seem to agree on a proposal that was put forth yesterday that would enable homeowners to stay in their homes, while basically re-adjusting their mortgage rates.

It should be noted however that the announcer put forth a good question of whether it will be "too little, too late."

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 12:32:45 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:17:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:11:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The gains went to a few on the top and real wages didn't grow at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Another point that I meant to bring up, the lack of an increase in wages. Though minimum wage is set to increase, the cost of living has increased at such a rate that even with the increases, there will still be a growing class of working poor.
====================================
Wait, thats me!!

Query - Didnt the bullshit housing explosion earlier in the decade (which really was due to the de-regulation of who is an acceptable loaner) cause some faulty numbers as far as our economys growth? I mean we are now experiencing the end result of this monumental mistake. Its better known as the "housing crisis." Being a layman, I would like to know if all those loans, when they were first issued, would give rise to false numbers regarding the strength of our economy? The amount of forclosures at present is staggering, and there seems to be no end in sight, thoughts on the long term results?

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 12:17:40 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:11:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
The gains went to a few on the top and real wages didn't grow at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Another point that I meant to bring up, the lack of an increase in wages. Though minimum wage is set to increase, the cost of living has increased at such a rate that even with the increases, there will still be a growing class of working poor.



Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 12:13:52 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by orph (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:05:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
-------------------------
Better than the bowels or penis of an 80 year old though. But seriously, Bee stingers are supposed to clear it up quite effectively. If you can catch a bee without wasting it's precious, precious venemous stinger, unless of course you're allergic.

Submitted by FilledwithHate at 2008-07-09 12:11:07 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Bob = steaming piece of shit


Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:18:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

This scare mongering about the economy is total bullshit. --> Like this response

The mainstream news media has spent the past two years yelling that the sky is falling, and throwing the big, scary word 'recession' around.

Here's the deal: we're not in a recession. --> How do you know this? While we did have <1% growth last quarter, barely avoiding the technical definition of recession, this is a lagging indicator, and we could easily be in one now.

For the past 10 years or so, the economy has been so explosively successful. So successful, that we're not used to anything else. We all start shitting our pants when the economy shows slow, steady growth. --> Successful economy for some, but it was not all that. The seeds for the current shit were being planted; all the growth was short-sighted expansion of bad credit, expansion of massive goverment debt, and shitty trade policy leading to huge deficits. The gains went to a few on the top and real wages didn't grow at all.

The stock markets are also quite reactive. All CNN (for example's sake) has to do is over-hype some shortage, or a company's bad quarterly earnings, and the market drops in reaction. Add a few more talking heads proclaiming economic disaster. Then make them all do this for 24 hours a day.

---> Convenient to blame CNN when all your crap are just talking points from Fox News, hardly a reliable source of information or even a real news source at all.

It's all political, really. How better to take down an administration, than to scare the ecomony away? The sad thing about it is the collateral damage done to the average guy. --> You experience paranoid delusions, huh? The media is trying to bring down this administration--not the obvious cronyism, corruption, incompetence, stupidity, international embarrassment? The fact is this administration is unpopular because it richly deserves to be; there is no other reason.

Contrary to what seems to be the norm, repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. --> So stop doing it, dumbass!

Granted, the dollar is kind of weak, but if you watch the dollar's value versus the light sweet crude futures prices, you'll see a very interesting correlation. When one goes up, the other goes down, and vice-versa.

--> More than kind of weak and it is weak because of the fundamental weakness in the US economy. This "interesting correlation" in the price of oil and US dollar is because oil is dollar demominated in international trading. That is like saying it is wet when it rains. Fucking brilliant observation! It doesn't change the fact that the world knows our money is worthless and is acting on it.

The world likes to call the US imperialists. If that's true, then we're the worst imperialists ever. All we have to do is take the oil in Iraq -that we earned- and the economy will correct itself.

--> Your evil plans come out in the end! Well, it aint gonna happen. The Iraqis are asking for a timetable for exit (recent news on CNN and everywhere else, but don't worry, I think Fox might even have reported it). This is great news for those of use who have hated the war for the whole time, but for the imperialists? Well, I guess you do suck at it (just like at everything else).

Submitted by orph at 2008-07-09 12:05:07 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Yep, right age, but my doctor says I have the thumbs of an eighty year old.


Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 12:03:01 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by orph (user info) at 2008-07-09 12:01:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

Yeah, it was meant to be jib. Damn my arthritic fingers - why put three vowels in a row on the keyboard. Fick it.
----------------------------------------
Arthritic? I thought you were only in your late 20's early 30's? Have you tried bee-stingers?

Submitted by orph at 2008-07-09 12:02:37 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

You're all cut

Ssshhh

You're cut too shooshy.

Submitted by orph at 2008-07-09 12:01:48 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Yeah, it was meant to be jib. Damn my arthritic fingers - why put three vowels in a row on the keyboard. Fick it.

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 11:59:50 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by orph (user info) at 2008-07-09 11:57:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

I like the cut of your job, MWG.

--------------------------
Do you mean jib? I'm really hoping that my job doesn't get cut, which is what this was all about.

Submitted by orph at 2008-07-09 11:57:06 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

I like the cut of your job, MWG.

Oh, 'the shit jobs go first' - you're real darn educated there boy.

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 11:46:34 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Okay, so it's been firmly established that the shit jobs will go first, .bmps are equal to fail, and that casinos are awesome. I've never been to a casino before, but I'll take the concensus view on the matter, as it seems like an entertaining way to piss away my paycheck, while still being considered more respectable than a junkie.

However that's all common sense and obvious, and I'm looking for more practical ideas, or at the very least some entertaining commentary.

Submitted by apollo88 at 2008-07-09 11:38:09 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

the shit jobs go first.

true.


Submitted by Doodles at 2008-07-09 11:18:12 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

I forgive you though.

In these trying times we must all learn to see past each others EPIC FAILS and see each tohers actual posts.


No?



I scraped my eye today, so I've been walking around in a perma-wink and people keep looking at me like I'm crazy.

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 11:15:44 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by Doodles (user info) at 2008-07-09 11:10:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

A bmp?

THAT is a fail.
-----------------------

Oops.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 11:10:58 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Tough industry Hartman, I worked for Lawn Doctor back in the day and currently employ...Happy Lawn I think....and yes if things got tight I would cut them immediately.

Submitted by Doodles at 2008-07-09 11:10:44 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

A bmp?

THAT is a fail.

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 11:08:39 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 11:00:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

PA legalized gambling. Casinos are going up everywhere.
===========================
My fiance lives next to the former Bethlehem Steel, which is now becoming a Casino. If thats not a metaphor for how our country is going then I dont know what is.

Bob, you are the exception to the rule mang. Good for you.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 11:06:44 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

That's awesome....Rendell push that?

Could he run for Prez in 4 - 8 years?

I've hear Ridge's name in the mix as a possible VP bid.

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 11:06:02 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:55:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

Hartman, you live in an area where the economy is largely based on tourism so when belts begin to tighten for folks luxuries like vacations and spending tend to get cut first. Unless you are working for large manufacturing plants or for the state or local you are going to feel it quick. I loved the Poconos when I lived there but there isn't any real money to be made there unless you come into the area with money.
================================
This is certainly true, the area I live in is based on alot of tourism. Thats why I dont work there! I work in a very prominent section of New Jersey (Chester, Mendham, Morristown) and I can see the effects of this even there. I have to say though, the business that I am in (I work for servicemaster lawncare), is the personification of ancilliary, so our business does drop off pretty quickly when money gets tight. I dont know, I sincerely hope that my fears are unfounded believe me, but right now Im finding it hard to see the silver lining.

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 11:00:52 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

PA legalized gambling. Casinos are going up everywhere.

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 10:59:11 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:51:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1

Ammunition: Currency of the Future!
---------------------------------
Already thought about that. I'm low on funds currently due to a "bank-rush" over the weekend.


Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:59:05 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

They have casinos in the Poconos now?


Bob, there are always exceptions.

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 10:56:50 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

I made an assload of money in the Poconos last year. Engineering a casino and a large pharmaceutical warehouse was quite lucrative.

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 10:56:36 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:53:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

SgtH: Smaller government is the answer.
==============
I think the answer is putting money back into OUR country and infastructure (sp?) take care of our home problems first, let the rest of the world fend for itself for awhile, were spread too thin I think.

And I know something about weight.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:55:26 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Hartman, you live in an area where the economy is largely based on tourism so when belts begin to tighten for folks luxuries like vacations and spending tend to get cut first. Unless you are working for large manufacturing plants or for the state or local you are going to feel it quick. I loved the Poconos when I lived there but there isn't any real money to be made there unless you come into the area with money.

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 10:53:36 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

SgtH: Smaller government is the answer.

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 10:51:47 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:37:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:34:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2


All I know is at this point, my future wife and I will both have to work full time just to support ourselves, I dont know how we will ever be able to support children

Its making me think that history is repeating itself, and Democracy cannot survive in any way, shape or form.

-------------------------------------------------------------
The first statement, I can certainly relate to, as I'm in a similar situation, but what do you mean by the second?

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Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:36:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

buying into the fear

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V
==========================
First off, Im not "buying into" anything. I dont watch or read the news, Im not influenced by anything or anyone, I just see and speak to "average" Americans everyday who are losing their houses, losing their jobs, cannot afford normal everyday things... simply THAT scares me.

The second statement monkey relates to Democracy's inability to sustain itself. Simply because it seems like there's no amount of policy or idealism that over time can fight off peoples need for power, and wealth. The ideals of other democratic societies (Rome for example) were basically the same, representatives of the people make decisions for the people. I just can't (and don't) see this idea "staying the course" over time because we have now become a nation where "lobbyists" (AKA legal bribery) can basically buy a decision that is favorable to their cause. Capitalism and Democracy are great ways to START a nation, but the end result looks as if greed overcomes the "Im working for my nation as well as my company" ideaology. If that werent the case, how can we allow so called American companies to take jobs out of their own nation and send them overseas simply to turn a higher profit? dont get me wrong, as a business model I have to agree its the most intelligent way to make the most money possible with the least amount of expenditure, but as far as it being beneficial to our nation? I dont see the payoff (unless you believe in that trickle down economics horseshit which doesnt apply because alot of the profit made goes into OTHER nations, not ours).

Crap, sorry im rambling.

Submitted by skrapmetal at 2008-07-09 10:51:19 EDT (#)
Rating: 1

Ammunition: Currency of the Future!

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:40:46 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

baaaahhhhh = no


when will you get it

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 10:38:24 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:37:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

Bob is confined to a Federal Prison for Animal Rape, he is uneffected by the economy

-----

IT WAS CONSENTUAL!

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:37:41 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Bob is confined to a Federal Prison for Animal Rape, he is uneffected by the economy

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 10:37:05 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:34:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2


All I know is at this point, my future wife and I will both have to work full time just to support ourselves, I dont know how we will ever be able to support children

Its making me think that history is repeating itself, and Democracy cannot survive in any way, shape or form.

-------------------------------------------------------------
The first statement, I can certainly relate to, as I'm in a similar situation, but what do you mean by the second?

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:36:40 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

buying into the fear

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V

Submitted by SgtHartman at 2008-07-09 10:34:31 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Jesus living christ this post basically outlined my fucking life...

I am 28 years old, getting married this year. I can honestly tell you I have never been more scared about my own future than right now, and each day I get more nervous about the future of my nation.

All I know is at this point, my future wife and I will both have to work full time just to support ourselves, I dont know how we will ever be able to support children (or if I would even want to bring children into this economy and state of the Union).

How arrogant can we be? We live in a nation that basically has no GDP anymore, we dont PRODUCE anything at home anymore, we have become a nation of consumers! and we wonder why our fucking Dollar is so weak, ITS NOT BACKED BY ANYTHING (except debt). I see so many people that just continue on with their lives as if we Americans have created something that is so fantastic that it cannot be toppled! Im going to laugh when they are the first people at the Canadian border when the shit hits the fan. Its making me think that history is repeating itself, and Democracy cannot survive in any way, shape or form. It seems that people are generally power hungry, this works FOR a nation when it is EARLY in its Democratic track, later on it becomes a detriment as the "team player" attitude dissapears and becomes simply, get all I can for me and mine.

Maybe I'll just pitch a tent (hehe) in Cauls backyard and become a fucking Canuck.

Christ now im depressed...

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 10:33:38 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:31:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

Well, if we're going to have a recession or a depression, I don't plan to participate.
---------------------------------------------

How's that? You planning on jumping ship, or do you already reside elsewhere? Seriously, if you have an escape plan, please share.

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 10:31:48 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Well, if we're going to have a recession or a depression, I don't plan to participate.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:31:27 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:25:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2

Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:24:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

I guess the simplest way i can explain it is my body is my temple...well my mind is my temple and my temple is not permenantly affect by outside sources.
---------

What would happen if you get kicked in the balls?

=======

I'd climb up to the top of your head and poke you in the eyeballs, Amazonian

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 10:28:21 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:18:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
All we have to do is take the oil in Iraq -that we earned- and the economy will correct itself.

--------------------------------------------
If only.

While I can agree with you on the news blowing this out of proportion, I don't really watch any news. Not even pseudo news on Comedy Central.

All this is just what I've observed through personal experience.

I see what you're saying about how we've previously seen explosive growth, and how that makes it seem worse than it is, but that doesn't change the fact that we're in a downturn.

By the by, I don't think we're in a depression now, but I'm thinking more of the future. And the word depression, isn't necessarily meant to refer to the economy, but our lives in general, how they're affected by the economy, and the sudden and severe changes that may be required to maintain a relatively (by current standards) comfortable lifestyle to which we are accustomed.




Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 10:25:03 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:24:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0

I guess the simplest way i can explain it is my body is my temple...well my mind is my temple and my temple is not permenantly affect by outside sources.
---------

What would happen if you get kicked in the balls?

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:24:18 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

I guess the simplest way i can explain it is my body is my temple...well my mind is my temple and my temple is not permenantly affect by outside sources.

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 10:23:14 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Because you got me cranked up.

Submitted by F.J.Bell at 2008-07-09 10:21:13 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

On a related note, I had a good chuckle at this the other day.

Gordon Brown, our dear Prime Minister and a veritable oaf of a man, was encouraging the British people to stop wasting so much food. He believed that £8 a week could be saved if we were to shop more carefully and eat within the timeframes of food products and clear our plates.

Then he buggers off to Japan for the G8 disco and eats a feast with 87 different courses, consisting of at least one dish of each type of sea-mammal. You trying to tell me he finished the whole thing? I'm not buying it.

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 10:21:09 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2008-07-09 10:16:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
we manufacture highend custom cabinetry and furniture and sell to the rich who seem to be hardly touched by the current market
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The rich have the money to not be affected. We sell and market to the general public, but we also do business to business sales, as well as higher end products for wealthier clientelle.

And I can somewhat see your points about being depressed and feeling depressed, perhaps I should have clarified: " A pervading sense of pessimism" that I can use logic to dispel momentarily, but it returns again and again.

Submitted by corn nugget at 2008-07-09 10:19:07 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

The unemployment rate in my county is above 9%. :( :( :(

Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB at 2008-07-09 10:18:16 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

This scare mongering about the economy is total bullshit.

The mainstream news media has spent the past two years yelling that the sky is falling, and throwing the big, scary word 'recession' around.

Here's the deal: we're not in a recession.

For the past 10 years or so, the economy has been so explosively successful. So successful, that we're not used to anything else. We all start shitting our pants when the economy shows slow, steady growth.

The stock markets are also quite reactive. All CNN (for example's sake) has to do is over-hype some shortage, or a company's bad quarterly earnings, and the market drops in reaction. Add a few more talking heads proclaiming economic disaster. Then make them all do this for 24 hours a day.

It's all political, really. How better to take down an administration, than to scare the ecomony away? The sad thing about it is the collateral damage done to the average guy.

Contrary to what seems to be the norm, repeating a lie over and over does not make it true.

Granted, the dollar is kind of weak, but if you watch the dollar's value versus the light sweet crude futures prices, you'll see a very interesting correlation. When one goes up, the other goes down, and vice-versa.

The world likes to call the US imperialists. If that's true, then we're the worst imperialists ever. All we have to do is take the oil in Iraq -that we earned- and the economy will correct itself.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:16:00 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

the products you manufacture....or market...are they commodity types being sold to the average homeowner?

we manufacture highend custom cabinetry and furniture and sell to the rich who seem to be hardly touched by the current market

Submitted by monkeyswithguns at 2008-07-09 10:13:23 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

Are you in the U.S, or U.K? I know that the American economy affects that of the world's, but I believe the situation to be more severe at home than abroad.

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:11:01 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

also, if it can be invisible....can it talk too?

i'd like an invisible elephant to bounce ideas off of and get feedback from

Submitted by MudWhistle at 2008-07-09 10:09:36 EDT (#)
Rating: 0

my wife and I both work in industries that have been and will be only slightly affected by this downturn but we are both conscious of if. We save a lot and make double mortgage payments in an effort to be clear of all debt as fast as possible.

But all of that is life, it happens whether I'm happy about it or sad or mad or what have you so I can't justify letting that which I cannot control effect my overall happiness. She and I have this discussion all the time when she says "this pissed me off" or "this depresses me" because I don't think it's true.

Depressed is a feeling, comes in..you feel it and then let it go. Depression as a state is a choice you either choose to be depressed or you don't. For example read a sad book passage and I FEEL sadness but I am not sad.

So let the economy turn as it will, maybe I'll have to sell my house and cars and what have you and we'll have to live in an apartment or in a tent but even in those circumstances...I'll be happy. I may feel sadness or despair but I won't be sad or depressed.

Submitted by F.J.Bell at 2008-07-09 10:09:07 EDT (#)
Rating: 2

Mmmm I don't think 'depression' would be the right term. Recession might be more accurate?

Apparently we are entering a period of natural cutback, following quite a considerable number of years of excess spending. I don't fully understand it but apparently building firms and the like are apparently beginning to pay people off in the UK.

I also don't believe we need to panic about it TOO much, and its not bad news for everybody. Whilst falling house prices will be worrying home-owners, they will be delighting people who want to buy a property but couldn't previously afford one.

But yeah, an invisible elephant would be nice.


D'oh! English! Who needs that? I'm never going to England. Come on,
let's smoke.

-- Homer Simpson, talking Barney into cutting class
The Way We Was